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Dan Delaney 🐮

  • Karma: +0/-0
Muirfield's Wind, Round The Clock and Back
« on: July 16, 2013, 01:44:16 PM »
With The Open fast approaching, I have been diving into all things Muirfield.  I’m struck with the genius of the routing in exposing the player to all wind directions, and none in consecutive fashion.  I’m surprised the routing has (apparently) not had more attention on GCA. 

Muirfield's Routing, www.theopen.com/en/TheCourse.aspx


While other courses have been laid out in a similar outside/in fashion, have any done so successfully as Muirfield?  From Mr. Turner’s Routings similar to Muirfield? http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php?topic=3470.0;wap2Blackmoor – ENG (Colt), Kennemer – NLD (Colt), Huntington Valley – USA (Flynn), Lehigh – USA (Flynn), Ranfurlie – AUS (Clayton), Sonoma GC – USA (W. Watson)

Of the Flynn's listed, both have mutiple stretches of holes playing in the same direction.


A few questions for the Tree House:

1.   Is Muirfield the ideal links routing?  Why or why not?

2.   Is this an achievable model in a non-links environment?  What are the major obstacles?  What are the better examples of its application?

3.   Is Muirfield’s routing vs. wind direction the driving force behind its impressive roll call of champions?
        Vardon, Braid, Ray, Hagen, Cotton, Player, Nicklaus, Trevino, Watson, Faldo and Els

Paul_Turner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Muirfield's Wind, Round The Clock and Back
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2013, 01:46:53 PM »
Stoneham (Willie Park)  is similar.

Bloomfield Hills too I think.  At least the outer/inner if note exactly clockwise/anticlockwise.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 01:48:31 PM by Paul_Turner »
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Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Muirfield's Wind, Round The Clock and Back
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2013, 01:55:43 PM »
Dan

Not sure if it was covered in Paul's thread but I don't think Colt can really take credit for the circular routing at Muirfield at least not on his own. With regards to your other questions, I think the different hole directions thing is a bit of a red herring on a links course. Even if you're playing a bounce round of say between 3 and 4 hours let alone the 5 hours plus the pro's play, you will experience a huge variety of wind directions and strengths even on a traditional out and back links. Even a small change in direction can make a difference to hole.

With regards to Muirfields roll of champions, I suspect thats down to the no nionsense type challenge that it presents.

Niall   

Mark Bourgeois

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Muirfield's Wind, Round The Clock and Back
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2013, 02:22:51 PM »
More attention for Muirfield? That auld water meadie?

Here's a thread getting at the principles but doesn't mention HCEG:
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,37948.0.html

Charlotte. Daniel. Olivia. Josephine. Ana. Dylan. Madeleine. Catherine. Chase. Jesse. James. Grace. Emilie. Jack. Noah. Caroline. Jessica. Benjamin. Avielle. Allison.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Muirfield's Wind, Round The Clock and Back
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2013, 08:22:21 PM »
Not sure if it was covered in Paul's thread but I don't think Colt can really take credit for the circular routing at Muirfield at least not on his own.

Niall   

I have to second Niall on this.  Colt's is the last routing for the course but he inherited a fair number of the holes, and I'm not sure one can say that the "routing" or sequence of holes was clearly a matter of design intent.

From the standpoint of using the wind, the routing is ideal, BUT on other properties the formation of the dunes will have much more say on what the routing should be, or can be.  So give Muirfield high marks, but don't mark down other courses where the land is a much different shape and this sort of routing is not possible.  In the end, what's important is to achieve VARIETY, not anyone's idea of perfection.

Paul_Turner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Muirfield's Wind, Round The Clock and Back
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2013, 09:06:23 PM »


Above is a good approximation of what Colt inherited and what is new.    The pre-Colt course did have a circular outer nine (Red) but the inner nine (Blue) was less so:  more triangles and zig-zagging.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 09:11:04 PM by Paul_Turner »
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Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Muirfield's Wind, Round The Clock and Back
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2013, 10:36:43 PM »
1.   Is Muirfield the ideal links routing?  Why or why not?

I'm not an expert on links golf, but I do have some experience.  I would say Muirfield's routing is ideal and among the best I've ever seen for the reasons stated above.



2.   Is this an achievable model in a non-links environment?  What are the major obstacles?  What are the better examples of its application?

Is the routing achievable on a non-links course?  Sure.  You need ample land in the appropriate geometric shape.  Would it be as effective, from a golfing standpoint, as Muirfield's is?  Not unless you have a windy site.



3.   Is Muirfield’s routing vs. wind direction the driving force behind its impressive roll call of champions?

I'd say no.  I'd say it is the maintenance and mix of challenges, of which the wind plays a singular role.  The course is a complete test of one's game.  So, you have to be a complete golfer to do well there over the course of an entire tournament.  Also, the rough and bunkers are penal.  So you have to be able to control your ball and pick and choose when to challenge the course with the appropriate type of shot.  Again, this is the hallmark of great players.  Hence, the list of champions crowned at Muirfield.



But again, I'm not a links, or Muirfield, expert.  Just adding 2 cents in hopes of furthering the conversation.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 10:39:27 PM by Mac Plumart »
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Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Muirfield's Wind, Round The Clock and Back
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2013, 06:27:31 AM »
Yes, I thought Stoneham's circular routing pre-dated Muirfield based on Colt's work.  Then I cottoned on to Old Tom's routing being essentially what is in place today with some obvious changes by Colt, but still retaining OTM's basic shape.  Muirfield should really have OTM as a co-designer as his contribution is incredibly important.

I don't believe the routing and effect of wind has anything to do with the roll call of winners at Muirfield.  Courses don't produce winners - championships do. 

I do think the Muirfield routing can be achieved on inland properties, but there can't be many trees or at least some of the reason for the routing is negated. 

Question - how in the heck did OTM create this routing?  It is one of the few strokes of genius in architecture and one which seemingly didn't get any praise when it was devised.  Was it a pure accident? Was routing not terribly important?  I gotta believe there was some intent to the routing - its too obvious not to be. 

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Muirfield's Wind, Round The Clock and Back
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2013, 06:36:11 AM »
The flatter the site, the easier it is to do anything you want with the routing.. Especially if the shape of the site is roughly oval / circular / rectangular / square

Paul_Turner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Muirfield's Wind, Round The Clock and Back
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2013, 06:39:52 AM »
Sean

i think it's a stretch to state that OTM routing is essentially in place today.  OTM routing is quite different from the two routings shown above.  Colt's course created basically 14 new holes.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,3543.0.html

I think it's an accurate claim that the original OTM Muirfield had a circular nature on its outer holes which enclosed its inner holes, but the actual holes aren't like today's...they are in different places.

I think the shape of the plot made it a convenient routing.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2013, 06:41:34 AM by Paul_Turner »
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Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Muirfield's Wind, Round The Clock and Back
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2013, 06:51:54 AM »
Sean

i think it's a stretch to state that OTM routing is essentially in place today.  OTM routing is quite different from the two routings shown above.  Colt's course created basically 14 new holes.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,3543.0.html

I think it's an accurate claim that the original OTM Muirfield had a circular nature on its outer holes which enclosed its inner holes, but the actual holes aren't like today's...they are in different places.

I think the shape of the plot made it a convenient routing.

I don't know which map you are looking at, but I don't think the idea of OTM being given a lot of credit for the shape of the routing is in the least a stretch.  There are lots of new holes, some over old ground.  Colt was superior to OTM in getting the most out of the land and enhancing the terrain where beneficial.  So there is no slight to Colt.  He was imo the best renovator of courses on the planet - this was his biggest strength.  Its incredible how he knew to keep some features (even if he wasn't keen) and when to go a different direction. 

Yes, I agree that the block shape helps with creating a more than basic out n' back routing. 

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Paul_Turner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Muirfield's Wind, Round The Clock and Back
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2013, 07:12:52 AM »
Sean

I agree in the general idea of a circular routing was there on OTM's original Muirfield

I just didn't agree with that the original routing is "essentially in place today" as you claimed.  If the holes are in different places then the routing is different.

« Last Edit: July 17, 2013, 07:15:12 AM by Paul_Turner »
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Josh Tarble

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Muirfield's Wind, Round The Clock and Back
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2013, 09:33:03 AM »
What is superior about Muirfield's routing to one that just constantly change the direction of the holes?

Isn't the key here just making sure the golfer is faced with a different wind on each hole?

I know a lot of old links are kind of standard out and backs or two loops, etc., but it seems a lot of modern routings are constantly changing direction.  Just trying to understand a bit better.

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