2014 King's Putter at Chambers Bay

[Ben Sims]

Who cares what the pros and tv cameras want to see? No way they should shut the place down more than a week before open week.

GJ,

Don't be obtuse. Those of us that live and work in Pierce Ct. care a great deal about how our taxpayer investment is perceived and portrayed. The place needs a both functional and aesthetically pleasing maintenance meld. In order to go that, it may be necessary to close the golf course well before the tournament.

[Garland Bayley]

Who cares what the pros and tv cameras want to see? No way they should shut the place down more than a week before open week.

GJ,

Don't be obtuse. Those of us that live and work in Pierce Ct. care a great deal about how our taxpayer investment is perceived and portrayed. The place needs a both functional and aesthetically pleasing maintenance meld. In order to go that, it may be necessary to close the golf course well before the tournament.

Well then me thinks you Pierce County residents are a snooty bunch that could take a lesson or two from Pinehurst.
Only the odd website member is going to care about an "aesthetically pleasing maintenance meld".

Here is a bit of what they might see.

Although, I would hope they would see it a bit browner that that. For the amateur it was all brown. Did the residents of Pierce County stage an uprising over the all brown look? I think not. 99% of them either don't care or don't know enough to be confident to do anything other than parroting what a broadcast announcer may comment on.

[Ben Sims]

GJ,

Chambers Bay isn't a warm weather golf course with a championship history. There has never been a major championship played in this region. For better or for worse, the consensus opinion on Chambers Bay by the pros and commentators will be the legacy of this tournament. The future economic impact to the local community (by Chambers Bay) will likely be tied to the success of the open.
 
I don't think CB's experience with the Amateur is at all analogous to the press (and pressure) they'll experience for the US Open. And a quick reminder, the amateur was enough of an "experience" to be the catalyst behind changes to the golf course.

This is a major championship, it's the big time. On a sporting scale, it might be the biggest event in this region's history. I think it would be justified to ensure (through any means necessary) the success of the event.

[Michael Essig]

Let's not forget that it is still spring, and the rain is still falling; and will be for another month; fortunately not this weekend.

To echo all who played and have since posted, it was a great event.  The players from out of the area Matt Bielawa, Pete Lavallee and Joe Perches were treated to four days (135 holes; 7-1/2 rounds) of quality golf, both municipal and private (thanks to Victor Santodomingo at Aldarra and Ben Sims at Fircrest).

With perfect golfing weather - low 70's, sunny and windless - great company, good food, and fun competition, the long weekend would have pleased the demands of any golfer.

Thanks again to all who came, to Richard Choi for organizing the event, and I am sorry more of you could not make it.  It did not disappoint anyone, and for those that played Fircrest, that was the cherry on top of the Sunday sundae.  All and all, the unanimous consent among the players: it was a Doak 10.

[Garland Bayley]

I'm not going to argue with you Ben. Suffice it to say that you make no sense at all to me.

[Ben Sims]

I'm not going to argue with you Ben. Suffice it to say that you make no sense at all to me.

GJ,

I'm just curious how you think closing the golf course one week prior to the tournament is a viable solution to ensuring good turf conditions. All I needed to see to prove my case was the condition of 10 green this past weekend. It's perfect. Why is closing a golf course to ensure that sort of conditioning a bad thing?

[Craig Van Egmond]

GJ,

There has never been a major championship played in this region.

Vijay Singh and his 98 PGA Championship might disagree with that statement.

[Ben Sims]

GJ,

There has never been a major championship played in this region.

Vijay Singh and his 98 PGA Championship might disagree with that statement.

Oops, missed that one. Thanks for the correction. I stand by my assertion that this will be the biggest sporting event in Pac NW history. But not the first major.

[Garland Bayley]

Craig,

Now would be the time to let Ben know that more people from Seattle cared that the SuperSonics won the NBA championship, not to mention the Seahawks little accomplishment this last year.

[Ben Sims]

Craig,

Now would be the time to let Ben know that more people from Seattle cared that the SuperSonics won the NBA championship, not to mention the Seahawks little accomplishment this last year.

GJ,

Trolling is easy. But I still haven't heard from you any solid reasoning on how the golf course can be presented well by closing one week prior to the tournament. You must admit it was a bold and outlandish statement. Nor does pointing out the Seahawks and Supersonics championships diminish how the large the 2015 US Open is expected to be. I've said it once--as have other people locally in know--that this will be the largest sporting event in Pac NW history. Not the most meaningful to locals mind you, but the largest.

[Garland Bayley]

Ben,

I has been reported in these threads that Pinehurst plans to close for only one week before they hold back to back US Opens. Why don't you ask them your questions.

Everyone knows that Chambers Bay will be able to host more spectators for the Championship than can crowd a football stadium or basketball arena. It doesn't take being in the know to know that.

Everyone knows that the cost of commercials for a Superbowl make the cost of commercials for a US Open look rather small. Everyone knows that basketball and football have more fans than golf. So you can quit trolling with your outlandish and wrong statements about what's going to happen in your neighborhood.

[Brent Carlson]

Gents,

This would have been a hell of an argument over dinner at the KP.

[Ben Sims]

GJ,

This weekend was a great illustration for just how effective it's been to close off a few of the greens. Would it really be so bad if they closed the course at the end of the summer? I love Chambers. It's the best course where I live. I--like many residents--want the open to be phenomenal. And truly, people in my neck of the woods care a lot about how the course is perceived by pros and TV. For better or worse, that will be the memory of this open, possibly the only Open held here. It'd be nice to get another one.

I'd ask that we dispense with the pretense that a historical golf course in the southern US is analogous to a very new golf course in the Pac NW with fescue. Pinehurst's lead-up to the open really isn't a factor.

Brent,

I agree. Sorry for my inability to attend. It's routine these days that I can't plan more than a few days out.  But playing with Mr. Nevermiss (Bielewa) Mr. Tempo (Perches) and Mr. Etiquette (Lavallee, one of the best playing-golf-with-Internet-friends stories ever!) was surely the highlight of my weekend. With all respect to Mr. Kirk of course.  I even got a hat!

[Joe_Tucholski]

Who cares what the pros and tv cameras want to see? No way they should shut the place down more than a week before open week.

...

Well then me thinks you Pierce County residents are a snooty bunch that could take a lesson or two from Pinehurst.

Garland I was monitoring things that were closing down for the US Open at Pinehurst from afar and had a similar reaction as you, then I visited two weeks ago and was amazed by the amount of stuff that comes in for the Open.  I've gone to multiple US Opens and witnessed everything during the event but never realized what was really there and how it got there.  As much as I hate to admit it hosting the Opens has a very dramatic impact on the host club.

Here is an abbreviated timeline I was provided listing events that impacted Pinehurst leading up to the US Mens and Womens Open
6 Jan (a net went up on Maniac hill to allow for preliminary work for the corporate village)...yes that is January
28 April Course #1 shutdown (VIP parking and bus depot)
19 May all tennis operations at the club shut down and croquet courts closed (media village/food court)...individual courts were shut down slowly starting mid April
20 May Course #4 shutdown (NBC stuff) they have tons of trailers
25 May Course #2 shutdown...I saw elsewhere on the internet you could play last week off mats as part of a US Open experience
27 May Holes #1 of Course #3 and #5 shutdown (driving range for the open)
2 June (today) it sounds like the facilities are basically shutdown (no more dining, no more locker room, no more bar, the club staff is no longer in their offices - not sure if this includes the senior leadership or not)

I imagine it's going to be much tougher logistically to put everything up at chambers bay as things are going to go between holes and the space off to the side of the course will be filled quickly.

[Richard Choi]

Thanks to everyone who played. That will easily be my golfing highlight of the year. Even losing my long running match with Perches was all fun.

Every course we played hosted at least one USGA National Championship (except for the 36 hole throw in - Cascade at Gold Mountain), and they were playing difficult enough to host another championship next week. And they were great value ($70/avg per round). The weather could not have been better and vistas were picture perfect (everyone in my foursome were sitting down to wait on the picturesque 15th at Chambers and nobody got up to play when the green cleared - we were all just enjoying the view).

GJ and Ben, your arguments are silly as they matter not. We are already averaging 3 to 4 temp greens for everyday play. I suspect that will continue through to US Open. There will be nets covering all dense landing zones to go along with temp greens.

I also suspect that Chambers will cut back on annual pass and discount round membership for local players to reduce traffic. They are going to have to manage the number of rounds before the open for optimal conditions. That is very easy to do just by raising prices.

I would also venture a guess that the course will be shut down in all intent and purposes (perhaps mats will be required to play) about 3 months before the open if the conditions require it. Even if the growing goes well, they have already announced they will be closed 3 weeks before the open.

You don't have to like it. It just is...

[Craig Van Egmond]

GJ,

     I do know those Seattle folks are still pissed off about the Thunder.  Yikes.

     Super Bowl was huge but wasn't in the Northwest.  I live in Seattle the year after they were the champs.. they played in the Kingdome at the time.

     

[Ben Sims]

Thank you Rich for partly confirming my position; that closing the golf course (in some ways) will be a benefit to the tournament.

[Garland Bayley]

Craig,

The statement was "it might be the biggest event in this region's history". It did not specify it had to be in Seattle. My point being that far more people in Washington, and in the world payed full attention to the last Superbowl, than will to the open at Chambers Bay. They will be talking about the Superbowl win long after the winner of the open is forgotten.

[Garland Bayley]

Yea Rich, three weeks sounds about right.
Thanks for your post Joe. It is more detailed than the earlier post that stated a 1 week complete closure. I notice that it is a two week shut down with still some play off mats continuing into that two week shut down.
Another thing to remember Joe is that Chambers Bay was built with hosting major championships in mind, so internal course setup may not be as difficult as at a course that was not designed for that eventuality.

[Brent Carlson]

The USGA has taken steps toward increasing the difficulty at CB.  The question in my mind -  is what direction will the course take after the Open is long gone.  It is after all a municipal facility.  Will it maintain the US Open mowing lines like Bethpage?  Or return to more forgiving course?  There's no doubt that many of the holes were more "fun" before the USGA changes.  Also - does CB stay true to fescue?  It will take a good long hot spell without watering to take out the poa.  

[Joe_Tucholski]

I should note I don't know how that planned schedule held up as the bottom of the page did have *subject to change.  I've heard mixed info on #2 last week, and really can't give the real answer as I wasn't there (can say no tee times were available on #2 on the members tee time system).

[Matthew Essig]

Craig,

The statement was "it might be the biggest event in this region's history". It did not specify it had to be in Seattle. My point being that far more people in Washington, and in the world payed full attention to the last Superbowl, than will to the open at Chambers Bay. They will be talking about the Superbowl win long after the winner of the open is forgotten.

I think the correct way to say it is "the biggest event to be played in this region's history." I completely agree that the Super Bowl will be the biggest event in this region's history, but the amount of buzz over the US Open is surprising considering there is still a year for the buzz to build. Again, volunteer spots were filled in something like 2 days. It doesn't matter if you talk to a golfer or not, people are talking about it. I know dozens of people, who generally could care less about golf, who are interested.

[Matt Bielawa]

Craig,

The statement was "it might be the biggest event in this region's history". It did not specify it had to be in Seattle. My point being that far more people in Washington, and in the world payed full attention to the last Superbowl, than will to the open at Chambers Bay. They will be talking about the Superbowl win long after the winner of the open is forgotten.

There's a big difference between what event interests the most people and what event has the most economic impact.  Nobody plans a vacation and decides to spend lots of money based on who wins a Super Bowl.  However, if CB shows well, looks good on TV, and the pros and media give it a good review, you can't dispute the economic impact it would have on the area...and that's obviously why the locals care.  Assume you've got 10 foursomes a day traveling in from out-of-town to play CB, at Summer Rates.  Here's my amateurish economic impact to the area:

Greens Fees: $239 x 4 x 10 groups = $9,560 to Pierce County
Hotel:  $100 per night (conservative) x 2 rooms per group x 10 groups.  Average stay, we'll say 2 nights = $4,000
Food:  $50 per person, per day, for 2 days (the KP people spent more, so this is also conservative) = $4,000
Rental Car:  $100 per group (low, I'm sure) = $1,000
Gas in Rental Car:  $25 per group x 10 groups = $250
Souvenirs:  $50 per person (a shirt or something in the pro shop) = $2,000

Conservative back-of-a-napkin estimate of $20,810 per day.

And I'm not smart enough to figure out the tax impact direct to the state/county. 

You can't reasonably compare CB to Pinehurst, which is an already established tourist destination.  People will still go to Pinehurst if they pave over the course and pay the US Open on asphalt.  However, CB and the PNW have one chance to get this right and lure people to town. 

[Garland Bayley]

There's a big difference between what event interests the most people and what event has the most economic impact.  Nobody plans a vacation and decides to spend lots of money based on who wins a Super Bowl. ...

The thing you overlook is the amount of money the Seahawks bring in from out of town/region fans for every home game.

What people have to realize is that the USGA is stuck with Chambers Bay. They have to go back there in the future. They have the stated goal of holding their championship on public courses. This helps them with their membership numbers. There have been numerous threads here trying to find additional locations for them to go, which have not found many (if any) viable alternatives. To a certain extent their only way out is to rein in the distance that ball travels which would open up the possibility of other venues.

[Matt Bielawa]

There's a big difference between what event interests the most people and what event has the most economic impact.  Nobody plans a vacation and decides to spend lots of money based on who wins a Super Bowl. ...

The thing you overlook is the amount of money the Seahawks bring in from out of town/region fans for every home game.

What people have to realize is that the USGA is stuck with Chambers Bay. They have to go back there in the future. They have the stated goal of holding their championship on public courses. This helps them with their membership numbers. There have been numerous threads here trying to find additional locations for them to go, which have not found many (if any) viable alternatives. To a certain extent their only way out is to rein in the distance that ball travels which would open up the possibility of other venues.

1.  I don't overlook this at all.  However, do you think the out of town/region fans really change based on winning a Super Bowl?  Whether you do or don't, it doesn't really matter from the perspective of golf...I was just making the argument that the US Open has more potential for economic impact to the Seattle area than a Super Bowl game does.  I suppose local vendors would sell more merchandise with Super Bowl Champions stuff on it, but I just don't see any impact to tourism.

2.  I'm not sure how the USGA is stuck with CB.  If the course closes the week before the tournament, and is played on dirt because of that, and, therefore, they determine that fescue cannot be successfully grown in Washington based on that result, you think the US Open will come back?  Really?

3.  USGA cares about membership numbers.  I think this is a noble argument to make, but I seriously doubt it from a financial perspective.  There are a bit under 30 Million golfers in the USA.  The best information I could find says there are roughly 1 Million USGA members.  That x $10/year brings it $10 Million a year for the USGA.  Fox is paying roughly $100 Million a year for broadcast rights.  So, do you really think going to a public course boosts membership revenue that much?  

Let's face it, they're going to courses that they think will draw eyeballs to the TV, bring in ad dollars for their TV partners, and not much more.  CB will draw eyeballs because it will be in East Coast prime time, people will be curious to see a course they've never seen, and Tiger will likely be playing.  Not sure why the USGA would care whether they return to CB specifically or not unless the tournament is a success.  The course quality will dictate the success rate as well as the corporate support.  Seattle has the corporate support locked down as well as the support of volunteers and such.  Now they just need the course quality.  As long as they're smart and take care of the grass by limiting play leading up to the tournament, it'll play great, and all will go well.  However, staying open too long isn't something they can risk, in my opinion.