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Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wolf Point Club: A pictorial!!! (2nd hole posted)
« Reply #25 on: July 11, 2013, 09:00:59 AM »
Looks like a fella could break the 100 Hole Hike record on that course. What season is the best for experiencing both the firmest ground and challenging winds?
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Don_Mahaffey

Re: Wolf Point Club: A pictorial!!! (2nd hole posted)
« Reply #26 on: July 11, 2013, 09:01:34 AM »
The 2nd was one of the more interesting holes to build as there was a low swampy area right in the crotch area of the #2-#11 conjoined fwy.
We had to drain this area and Mike came up with a clever drainage plan then turned us loose to connect/separate the water shed areas in a fun way to make the drainage work. This is where the technical and creative aspects of the project intersect, which is really the underlying theme of WP, at least from my perspective.
 The rolls/ridges and bumps were great fun to build and a blast to play, but the underlying water collection and removal plan was just as creative. but out of sight. Here is a perpendicular to line-of-play view that shows off the ground movement.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2013, 09:03:59 AM by Don_Mahaffey »

Lou_Duran

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Re: Wolf Point Club: A pictorial!!! (2nd hole posted)
« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2013, 09:16:35 AM »
What is the "client's" one (or two) favorite hole (s)?  Mike's and Don's?  Why?  Is 14 anyones?

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Wolf Point Club: A pictorial!!! (2nd hole posted)
« Reply #28 on: July 11, 2013, 09:21:10 AM »
Would love to hear the strategic commentary from Mike on every hole, including break down percentages, as he did on hole 1, of how often golfers play way right vs carrying the bunkers on the left.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Mike Nuzzo

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Re: Wolf Point Club: A pictorial!!! (2nd hole posted)
« Reply #29 on: July 11, 2013, 10:56:29 AM »
#2 headed more south-easterly until routing version 10 of 11 - late in the process.
There were a few trees that could be used for the tee shot on #3, and not much else was existing.
So, to use the trees, I skewed the holes and #2 was now almost due east - which I was trying to avoid - and joined the 2nd & 11th fairways - which I look at now as a big deal and worth way more than trying to avoid the morning sun.

One of the early routings had 100 bunkers.
Why?  Because they look good when drawn on a flat piece of paper.
It was never my intention to build that many, and certainly not Don's!!!
Our owner did latch on to the 100 bunker idea, maybe more as a way to tease Don, but fortunately both of Don & my goals were to remove bunkers throughout the construction.

#2 was different though, Don suggested adding 2 bunkers to this fairway!
« Last Edit: July 11, 2013, 12:15:24 PM by Mike Nuzzo »
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Don_Mahaffey

Re: Wolf Point Club: A pictorial!!! (2nd hole posted)
« Reply #30 on: July 11, 2013, 12:01:28 PM »
What is the "client's" one (or two) favorite hole (s)?  Mike's and Don's?  Why?  Is 14 anyones?
Lou, the client doesn't look at it like that.
All I know about his feelings for the 14th was once it was brought up (by a visitor) that it might be a good idea to soften the green and he told me he'd fire me if I ever touched it, or any of the other greens.

I surmiseyou are not a fan of the 14th, but you are in the minority of those who have played the course, at least as far as what they tell me.

Tom Doak called the green "impractical" but I don't think he was looking at it with the idea of 1500 rounds a year. If this where a busy course, we would have to make the green bigger, but I know we would try and hang on to the green concept as hard as we could.

There are many large greens at WP and I don't see the problem with a small green, especially with the way Mike designed the hole; starting very wide and ramping up the intensity with each shot. I know small green means it should be flatter if we followed conventional wisdom...but we didn't. I think 14 is a great par 5 because you are never bored playing the hole and I've seen plenty of birdies and eagles once golfers overcome the fear of the green and start to see what the hole gives them instead of what it takes away.

Sam Morrow

Re: Wolf Point Club: A pictorial!!! (2nd hole posted)
« Reply #31 on: July 11, 2013, 12:10:17 PM »
If you touch 14 green I might shoot you.

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wolf Point Club: A pictorial!!! (2nd hole posted)
« Reply #32 on: July 11, 2013, 12:29:20 PM »
It was in the second fairway that I realized how much this golf course was about movement and deception, which can be fairly surprising given how at first glance the course doesn't appear to have all that much topography. But, then again, I've played the Old Course, so I should know that looks can be deceiving! I asked Don as we were getting ready to play our second shots if any of the rolls I was looking at were there before construction and his answer was no - all shaped. Wow. I already had great respect for these guys talents, but for me, this was the beginning of an exciting, jaw dropping, eye opening affair that continued to build as the day went on. I'll make no bones about it, I'm in awe of the course and find myself thinking about it a lot since I left. I told David, Sam and Don at dinner afterwards that I can't recall ever being as disappointed leaving the golf course as I was that night when the sun went down. Yes, their company had a lot to do with it, but the golf on offer at Wolf Point is the most fun kind there is. I don't know any other way to describe it. You probably won't lose a ball, you have a shot at recovering most all of the time and once you get near the green, you and your opponent(s) get to have an outrageously fun battle with the flat sticks.

My pic below does a decent job of showing the rolls in the fairway at the 2nd. It also shows, depending on your perspective from the fairway, how a bunker nowhere near the green can look as though it could be greenside or very close to it, so you might decide to challenge it, only to find it can be carried quite easily. However, you might not be happy when you find your ball in the little bunker that was hidden from view, brilliantly guarding the entrance to the green. :)

« Last Edit: July 11, 2013, 01:09:06 PM by Eric Smith »

Sam Morrow

Re: Wolf Point Club: A pictorial!!! (2nd hole posted)
« Reply #33 on: July 11, 2013, 12:52:33 PM »
The movement on 2 is so special and the front left finger of that green has these beautiful rolls to them that pictures don't really show. The first time I played I didn't even notice them.                                                                                                                                                                               

Sam Morrow

Re: Wolf Point Club: A pictorial!!! (2nd hole posted)
« Reply #34 on: July 11, 2013, 12:59:46 PM »
I'm sorry, I never gave my thoughts on 1. I call it disorienting, you feel like you have the entire world as a fairway yet picking a line is so difficult. Whenever the discussion of width comes up I think 1 at Wolf Point should be the case study. Actually the entire course should be.

Ben Sims

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Wolf Point Club: A pictorial!!! (2nd hole posted)
« Reply #35 on: July 11, 2013, 03:34:47 PM »
Thoughts on 1 and 2.

1) Easiest tee shot on planet Earth?  Probably.  Well, that is unless you want to make birdie.  I think with modern technology it is less important to challenge the lake to have an easier approach and I can only remember one or two times I've been left of the left-most bunker.  But it does help.  The most prevalent play is to aim dead at the green and bang away.  If you carry the bunkers, great, if not, good luck with a 50 yd pitch uphill to a green sloping away.  The 1st green is likely your first chance to putt for the day.  It's a subtle green (comparatively) that crowns on the highpoint of the hole.  I've found that the back right pin is toughest to dial in.  But it's the easiest to hole out from if slightly off the green.  In the normal game, par wins it 50% of the time.   

2)  Another open drive, but again, unless you really prefer the right side.  This theme pops up again and again at Wolf.  Driving to the most preferred fairway position will require some guts and execution.  Keeping the ball in play requires nothing but a passable golf swing.  More troubling is that the preferred fairway position changes day-to-day, hole-per-hole even, based on winds and where Don or Robert cut the hole.  Another theme introduced on the 2nd fairway that pops up again and again is uneven lies.  This is more than unexpected based on the topography in this part of Texas.  Mike and Don created some fascinating fairway movement that seamlessly blends into the existing movement around the creekbed and the man-made central lake.  This serves two purposes.  The first is that (obviously) it brings interest and challenge to the golf course, furthering bolstering the links motif at Wolf.  But secondly--and I think Don would argue more importantly--it greatly enhances the surface movement of water.  Being a flat site, helping surface drainage where possible was an obvious goal of the build. 

Back to the 2nd hole.  Once you decide where you're going to drive the ball (a full 80 yds of width and therefore decisions await), you're left with a slightly uphill approach to the horseshoe green.  This green grows on me every visit.  It, like many other greens at Wolf, falls off on the sides using a a sort of "potato chip" shape.  Managing the miss of this green is crucial.  Miss on the side opposite the hole and good luck.  Missing off the green on the same side as the hole is far more preferable to hitting the center of the green, well above the hole.  Yet another theme--knowing how and where to miss with all of the room out there--that makes Wolf so special.

Brandon Urban

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wolf Point Club: A pictorial!!! (2nd hole posted)
« Reply #36 on: July 11, 2013, 04:01:18 PM »
I'm not going to lie, this place looks absolutely magical. Thanks for the tour Kyle and thanks to all of the guys who have seen this place for their input. This, to me, is what golf is all about.

Looking forward to the rest.
181 holes at Ballyneal on June, 19th, 2017. What a day and why I love golf - http://www.hundredholehike.com/blogs/181-little-help-my-friends

Josh Tarble

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wolf Point Club: A pictorial!!! (2nd hole posted)
« Reply #37 on: July 11, 2013, 04:21:28 PM »
Another tour that I am very excited to see.  The place looks incredible.

Mike/Don,
If you don't mind answering, how much would you change in the design if someone requested a similar course, but public access?  Would that have changed any of your design philosophies or the final product at all?

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wolf Point Club: A pictorial!!! (2nd hole posted)
« Reply #38 on: July 11, 2013, 05:54:34 PM »
Josh

The most severe crossover is the everyday tee on 17. 
It is in the 16th fairway.
We built an optional set across the creek just in case.
So I think she's ready for the public as is on two conditions:

As long as the tiger plays 11 so the 12th green isn't easily reached with a pulled miss.
And play isn't so heavy to require cart paths.
The bridges would need hand railings too.

Cheers
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Lyne Morrison

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wolf Point Club: A pictorial!!! (2nd hole posted)
« Reply #39 on: July 11, 2013, 07:15:25 PM »

Nice work Mike and Don.

It must have been a treat - and a lot of fun - to be given free reign on a course that could 'bend the rules' given the committee of one and the low playing numbers. A very unique situation, perhaps similar to Ellerston in some respect.

Don, you mention the drainage issues on 2  - what soils were you working with and what machines did you use for the fairway shaping?  Is it all surface drainage?

Cheers, Lyne

Sam Morrow

Re: Wolf Point Club: A pictorial!!! (2nd hole posted)
« Reply #40 on: July 11, 2013, 09:16:56 PM »
I'm not going to lie, this place looks absolutely magical. Thanks for the tour Kyle and thanks to all of the guys who have seen this place for their input. This, to me, is what golf is all about.

Looking forward to the rest.

It's going to get better, I promise!

Kyle Henderson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wolf Point Club: A pictorial!!! (2nd hole posted)
« Reply #41 on: July 11, 2013, 10:39:10 PM »
I think the enthusiasm for Wolf Point is more than evident in the words of Nuzzo, Mahaffey, Morrow, and Sims (etc., etc.) and everyone else who has been to WPC. But it was the photos of the undulations on Nuzzo’s blog that had me aching for 1st-hand experience. The first few holes confirmed the wisdom of my choice to catch an expensive red eye to golf in, of all places Texas. But, as Morrow stated above, the best is yet to come.
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Sam Morrow

Re: Wolf Point Club: A pictorial!!! (2nd hole posted)
« Reply #42 on: July 11, 2013, 10:43:57 PM »
I think the enthusiasm for Wolf Point is more than evident in the words of Nuzzo, Mahaffey, Morrow, and Sims (etc., etc.) and everyone else who has been to WPC. But it was the photos of the undulations on Nuzzo’s blog that had me aching for 1st-hand experience. The first few holes confirmed the wisdom of my choice to catch an expensive red eye to golf in, of all places Texas. But, as Morrow stated above, the best is yet to come.

I don't know how many pictures you took that day but I'm sure it was hundreds, it was funny watching you take them, on 17 green you were taking pictures backwards and the grin on your face was priceless. You just don't really get it unless you've been there.

Kyle Henderson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wolf Point Club: A pictorial!!! (2nd hole posted)
« Reply #43 on: July 12, 2013, 12:22:24 AM »


I don't know how many pictures you took that day but I'm sure it was hundreds, it was funny watching you take them, on 17 green you were taking pictures backwards and the grin on your face was priceless. You just don't really get it unless you've been there.

One photo for each golf shot.
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Kyle Henderson

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Re: Wolf Point Club: A pictorial!!! (3rd hole posted)
« Reply #44 on: July 12, 2013, 12:24:12 AM »
At number 3, the wind was finally at our backs, but after the nearly infinite width of the first two holes this drive is noticeably more constrictive – it’s perhaps only 3-4 times as wide as a conventional parkland hole…


Tee shots that bend a bit left will be well rewarded, so long as they can evade a collection of traps on the inside corner.


The inside track is not only shorter, but also allows an approach line left of the greenside trap  –  the green may be reached in two if you can ride the wind.


From a bit further right, the approach seems much more daunting, but the bunker on line with the flag is well short of the green.


This view illustrates the spacing of the bunkers, but it is hard to tell just exactly where the green begins. The maintenance meld gets an A+ in my book.

« Last Edit: July 12, 2013, 12:27:54 AM by Kyle Henderson »
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Wyatt Halliday

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wolf Point Club: A pictorial!!! (3rd hole posted)
« Reply #45 on: July 12, 2013, 12:31:43 AM »
Count the third among my many favorites at WP. Was the wind more SSE or ESE?

I've not had the luxury to play it into a winter wind, but I still imagine it to be tougher downwind simply due to temptation.

I was hoping you'd photo-chronicle this one. Gonna be a fun few days following this. Thanks Kyle.

Kyle Henderson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wolf Point Club: A pictorial!!! (3rd hole posted)
« Reply #46 on: July 12, 2013, 12:37:57 AM »
Count the third among my many favorites at WP. Was the wind more SSE or ESE?

I've not had the luxury to play it into a winter wind, but I still imagine it to be tougher downwind simply due to temptation.

I was hoping you'd photo-chronicle this one. Gonna be a fun few days following this. Thanks Kyle.

I'd say the wind was almost directly from the east. Glad you could join the party, mon ami.
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Sam Morrow

Re: Wolf Point Club: A pictorial!!! (3rd hole posted)
« Reply #47 on: July 12, 2013, 12:46:32 AM »
3 Is interesting, for me I can't challenge that left side but I've seen that it certainly shortens the hole. For me the little scar bunker seems to play tricks on my little draw. This hole to me is made by the bunkering, the bunkering on 3 is thoughtful and artful. It's the hole you'd be most likely to see at another course except few other places would have the bunkers this hole has.

Wyatt said it's one of his favorite holes, it's funny when someone asks my favorite hole I can never pick one. I think every hole on the course is special with several of them being extraordinary, those holes to me would be 4, 7, 9, 10, 14, 15, 16, and 18. The rest are just great. ;D

Charlie Gallagher

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wolf Point Club: A pictorial!!! (3rd hole posted)
« Reply #48 on: July 12, 2013, 05:30:42 AM »
The 3rd hole at Wolf Point , like the 1st,  uses its offset but still centerline bunkering to dictate choice both off the tee and, due to it's par 5 character, on the 2nd shot. The left side offers the shorter route, but less room and the danger of a lost ball, a relative rarity on this course. The right side shots are safer, but present more difficult scoring challenges all the way up to the green, once again due to the greens knolls and slope that are kinder to a shot from the left than the right. This hole is a monument to great strategic design, an extraordinary par five on flat ground. A great player will find it just as much of a test as a lesser skilled enthusiast.

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wolf Point Club: A pictorial!!! (3rd hole posted)
« Reply #49 on: July 12, 2013, 05:54:53 AM »
Kyle,

I very much like what I see about Wolf Point and am looking forward to the rest of your post. Well done and thanks for putting in the time and effort to sharing this with us.
All the best

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