What would be on a list of lesser known Ross gems?

[Mark Steffey]

Misquamicut, Rhode Island.

the longest 6,200 yd course i've ever played! 

[Mike_Trenham]

Sakonnet
Congress Lake
Point Judith
St Davids (my home course)

Fit the lesser known gem category

[jonathan_becker]

It's only been mentioned once but I'll mention it again.

Brookside

Simply put, the place is nothing short of awesome

[Ed Homsey]

I have the utmost respect for Jim Kennedy's research.  So, if he says that Tupper Lake CC was designed by someone other than Donald Ross, I'll go with that.  I was basing my belief on the club's information dating back to the early 1990s.  Not always the most reliable source. 

[Brent Carlson]

Detroit Golf Club South is a really fun par 68 that plays around 6k yards.  It's definitely worth a look.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Gulph Mills (Philadelphia)
Manakiki (Cleveland, muni)
Idle Hour (Lexington KY)
Jeffersonville (Phladelphia, muni)
French Lick (Indiana)

Philip,

How much of Ross remains at Gulph Mills ?

Can it be called a Ross gem in its present state ?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Chris,

I'd say that Mountain Ridge would have to be at the top of any "lesser known" list.

I also agree with you about Plainfield.

Knowing about a course and having played it are two different things when establishing a "class" or list.

What's amazing is that Donald Ross did next to nothing on Long Island, one of the great locations for golf courses.

[Philip Caccamise]

Good call on Jeffersonville Phillip.  That's a good one too.

Mark

I think it's the "best value" course in Philadelphia. Especially when a dump like Ramblewood (same distance from Center City) is charging $10 more.

[Bryan Icenhower]

What's amazing is that Donald Ross did next to nothing on Long Island, one of the great locations for golf courses.

Never really put that together, any reason why?

[Philip Caccamise]

Gulph Mills (Philadelphia)
Manakiki (Cleveland, muni)
Idle Hour (Lexington KY)
Jeffersonville (Phladelphia, muni)
French Lick (Indiana)

Philip,

How much of Ross remains at Gulph Mills ?

Can it be called a Ross gem in its present state ?

Good question. I worked there for two years around 2000 and love the course, but I don't know how much it has been altered from the original plans. Holes 1,3,4,10,17,18 are my favorites out there and certainly "feel" original; although #6&8 always felt out of character and likely were an alteration. Anybody know how much it's changed?

[Philip Caccamise]

Gulph Mills (Philadelphia)
Manakiki (Cleveland, muni)
Idle Hour (Lexington KY)
Jeffersonville (Phladelphia, muni)
French Lick (Indiana)

Philip,

How much of Ross remains at Gulph Mills ?

Can it be called a Ross gem in its present state ?

GAP Golf site is fantastic. The answer: none tee-to-green and all of the greens, redesigned by Flynn (which are excellent.)
http://www.gapgolf.org/clubs.asp?cid=43

[Patrick_Mucci]

Philip,

What about Maxwell's work ?

Actually, much is known about the architectural history as a member compiled a detailed account of all the changes and published same

[Don Hyslop]

Suggesting a couple of others for this list, first of all the Riverside Golf and Country Club located just outside Saint John, New Brunswick in the community of East Riverside. This course hosted the Canadian Open in 1939, won by Harold "Jug" McSpaden. It is 6,344 yard gem that dates back to 1897. It has also hosted four Canadian Men's Amateur Championships and several Canadian Women's Amateur Championships.

https://www.riversidecountryclub.ca/Home.aspx

Another is a 9 hole course located on the shores of the Atlantic Ocean at White Point Beach Resort, Nova Scotia. It plays at 6,200 yds for 18.
http://www.whitepoint.com/white-point-golf-club/

[Jason Thurman]

The fact that this thread is four pages long and Idle Hour in Lexington has only been mentioned twice is proof that it absolutely belongs. I'd be stunned if anyone has played it since Ron Prichard's renovation and left it off their list. It's a wonderful membership that doesn't actively seek publicity. I'm not familiar with a better course that receives less attention and acclaim, and I think that's just the way they like it.

On my Ross list, I rank it decisively better than Pine Needles (which I also love, and is actually a similar test in some ways). I don't rate it quite as highly as Pinehurst No. 2, but it's not terribly far behind. In fact, I'd say Idle Hour is closer to No. 2's quality than it is to that of Pine Needles. I'm just an idiot who likes good courses, but that's my take.

[Dave Herrick]

I haven't seen mention of the course in the town where I grew up, Manchester (NH) CC. It is, I believe, comparable in quality to both The Balsams and Bald Peak, and a cut above Maplewood and Bethlehem.
I never played it in my youth, but the one time I did play it a dozen years ago I found the routing interesting and several holes enjoyably quirky.

[Chris Buie]

Well, this is really great information - and that's not just being nice.
It hadn't actually occurred to me before but I can't think of a better group to ask the question to. It's not from some overly mannered perspective or some ulterior agenda. It's authentic, visceral takes from people that appreciate the game on the level it warrants.

Surely there must be a list ranking Ross courses somewhere? Well, I couldn't find one but I didn't look all that hard either. I would say considering the number and the quality of his works that there should be one. I've saved the info and when I get the chance I'll look through it pretty closely. If anybody wants to have a go at sorting out the information here (a worthy endeavor) then be my guest. It could be done however one sees fit but perhaps it would be good to put them in categories - not necessarily rated 1,2,3 etc - but that could be ok as well.
Maybe the categories could be:
-Famous Courses
-Very best of the lesser known courses
-Very good
-Worth a play
-Competent but not of exceptional quality
-Don't go out of your way to play

Um well, not very scientific - pretty ham handed actually - sorry about that - just some thoughts at the moment. There are probably better ways of doing it but possibly that might get someone started.
I really enjoyed hearing about all these courses. I hadn't realized that some of them were so exceptional.
Thanks much

[Lester George]

CCV-Westhampton

Ft Bragg (Officers Club)

Pope Air Force Base (NLE)


Lester

[Jud_T]

I'm not sure it's a true gem, but I was pleasantly surprised by Kingswood Golf Club in Wolfeboro, NH.  Looks like old school  (1915) untouched Ross with some surprising elevation change used to good effect.  Also Ravisloe Country Club in Homewood, IL would certainly qualify as a second tier Ross worthy of play, even if 7 of the last 11 holes are par 4's between 390-410.  There's some really great greens there (16!), good terrain by Illinois standards and a nice renovation by David Esler before the old Jewish club went public a few years back.

[Chris Buie]

This is a rambling work in progress so please forgive my kind of thinking out loud mode here.
I couldn't help having a quick look through. It looks to me like it would definitely be worthwhile to have a list of the very best of his lesser knowns. By lesser known I mean if you went into an average golf club in an average town and asked the average player if he's heard of the course. I don't mind discussing that some but don't want to get bogged down in the minutiae of that.
So to start out with a very rough and incomplete list what do you think of this? I'm looking to list the ones that almost everyone can agree is of absolutely first tier quality:


-Very best of the lesser known courses (incomplete and in no particular order)
Essex
Idle Hour
Plainfield
Overhills (trust me on that lads)
French Lick
Mountain Ridge (based on Mucci's take)
Glens Falls (Ian Andrew rates it - that's all I need to know)


Should these be included on the list above - or perhaps rated slightly behind?
Timaquana CC
Brookside
Misquamicut
Charles River
Springfield Country Club
Plymouth CC
Siwanoy CC
Northland
Holston Hills
Northland
Franklin Hills

I think it likely that after the list of particularly shining gems there could be a tier 2 of ones that are true gems but not quite ultra brilliant.

Anyway, as usual, just some thoughts. It's nothing definitive - just a discussion in progress.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Based on pics, Brookside absolutely belongs in the top tier.

[jonathan_becker]

Based on pics, Brookside absolutely belongs in the top tier.

+1 

Without a doubt

[Chris Buie]

-Very best of the lesser known courses (incomplete and in no particular order)
Essex
Idle Hour
Plainfield
Overhills (trust me on that lads)
French Lick
Mountain Ridge (based on Mucci's take)
Glens Falls (Ian Andrew rates it - that's all I need to know)
Brookside
Northland

Should these (or others) be included on the list above - or perhaps rated slightly behind?
Timaquana CC
Misquamicut
Augusta CC
Charles River
Springfield Country Club
Plymouth CC
Siwanoy CC
Holston Hills
Franklin Hills

[PCCraig]

-Very best of the lesser known courses (incomplete and in no particular order)
Essex
Idle Hour
Plainfield
Overhills (trust me on that lads)
French Lick
Mountain Ridge (based on Mucci's take)
Glens Falls (Ian Andrew rates it - that's all I need to know)
Brookside

Should these be included on the list above - or perhaps rated slightly behind?
Timaquana CC
Misquamicut
Augusta CC
Charles River
Springfield Country Club
Plymouth CC
Siwanoy CC
Northland
Holston Hills
Northland
Franklin Hills

Chris,

I think Northland is better than French Lick, so based on that I think it should be included above. It doesn't get talked about nearly enough, most likely due to it being in a remote location with a very short season.

[Bill Crane]

I have to second:

Torresdale Frankford, No Phila, PA
Echo Lake, Westfield, NJ
Granville G C. Granville , OH   ( 14 holes as pointed out)

And Add:  
Hyannisport G C on Cape Cod Mass, where JFK grew up playing golf.   Very well routed, a couple of very quirky holes especially 18 (straight up the hill) and 16 (horseshoe dogleg par 5).
Fun course in another beautiful setting.

Have not played Oyster Harbors (also Cape Cod) but I hear great things about it.

Wm Flynnfan

[Jason Thurman]

I'm playing Devil's Advocate here. I haven't actually played French Lick, so I'll leave it up to people who have to decide whether this is correct or not:

Doesn't French Lick simply belong in the "Very Good" category? I don't think there's anything "lesser known" about it. It's a public resort course that has possibly been played by more individual golfers than any other Ross course. From what I've gathered, the reason it doesn't receive more acclaim is simply because it doesn't deserve it.

That's not to say that it's a bad course. It's just to say that it doesn't belong on the elite list of Ross courses. I've never met a single person who thinks French Lick is in the same league with Ross' best, though most people like it.

If French Lick were anywhere near as good as Idle Hour, it would be rated a Top 30 public course by virtually every publication and its green fee would be at least doubled.