[Jeff_Brauer]

http://brainsplatterkeyboard.wordpress.com/2013/07/08/golf-the-only-real-solution-for-slow-play/

Interesting read, and I have always thought this was true.  I played with some locals in Scotland and they picked up every time it was clear they were out of a hole.  How many strokes a round and time does that save?  I know they play in 2.5-3 hours and cannot be that much better golfers than here.

The salient quotes:

What to do to make a round of golf the fluid, efficient part-day of recreation it should be? There is only one hope: match play.

Remember the three-hour round in the U.K.? Sometimes it’s even less, and there’s a reason for that. When players score each hole as one of 18 points available to be won (by completing it in fewer strokes than your opponent), lost (the opposite), or halved (tie), the winner of the majority of such holes/points being declared the victor – well, things move along. That is the dominant form of play in the United Kingdom, and always has been. And while there are plenty of players in the U.S. who embrace this kind of play, there are a great many more who do not. Instead, they play stroke play, in which every hole is played to its completion regardless of the result, and every putt must be holed. Their objective is not to win a competition, but to “post a score,” perhaps bettering a friend or their own last outing.

I think a few brave courses out there ought to institute match play days, times (like Saturday before noon), or incentives to encourage it.  Maybe it would catch on.  And frankly, given all the stupid TV competitions people seem to love, having a winner and loser for your friendly round than posting a score might be preferable to many, no?

[Brent Hutto]

First, you've got to rid the USA of the idiotic USGA Handicap System. Most USA golfers act as though the purpose of a round of golf is generate scores for the computer. The little match-play game they have going is basically a side bet, the computer is the thing that rules golfer's behavior.

The fact that the system was not intended to produce that behavior is beside the point. Intentions matter not at all. Actual consequences matter and one actual consequence of the USGA Handicap System is that golfers all over the country ever weekend are treating "match play" as "stroke play with gimmes" and hacking out every hole to its sorry conclusion regardless.

[Carl Johnson]

Agree 100% with match play (or other games, such as Staplefords, appropriately modified, where you pick up on bad holes) will speed play.  I've said that many times before myself.  I would hope that players can be taught how to post a handicap score without finishing holes - and, encouraged to do it.  That's something the USGA, club pros and course operators need to work on.  I believe that the seniors I play with do a pretty good job of picking up when appropriate in our games, so I know it can be done.

[Lou_Duran]

Most USA golfers act as though the purpose of a round of golf is generate scores for the computer. The little match-play game they have going is basically a side bet, the computer is the thing that rules golfer's behavior.

Intentions matter not at all. Actual consequences matter.

You mean I've been playing golf for over 40 years without realizing its correct purpose (I would show you my Excel scorekeeping system which started with Lotus, but you'd probably be critical of its simplistic statistical applications)!  What can be more instructive and motivational than reliving a shanked second shot wedge on the first playoff hole (Scarlet's #1) to lose the first flight of the club championship in 1978?  Or reminiscing about a round of 85 at Cobblestone Park on 11/9/09 with three fine gentlemen?  Golf is a big world (TE Paul, circa 2005).

It must be tortuous working in academia as you do.  Who knew?  Consequences actually matter.  I know, if we only threw much bigger bales of money at all the problems the well-intentioned smart people have so kindly identified for us, the consequences of their good, thoughtful programs would be entirely different.  Rather than legislate what type of golf we should all play- e.g. Mr. Brauer's Saturday a.m. match play prescription- why not just lay out some guidance on a reasonable amount that the round should last and set up the playing conditions to facilitate that?

As to the U.K. approach, not being prone to dictating how others should do their thing, I do find it odd that one would want to play every other shot (two ball matches/alternate shot) with the express purpose of playing briskly (say, under three hours) only to retire to the clubhouse to imbibe for a couple of hours.  Not being a heavy drinker, I'd rather spend my time on the course playing golf- all 18 holes- socializing more as I am playing and less while I'm sitting on my ass in the bar whining about slow, lazy American golfers riding in their carts guzzling their easily accessible beer icing nicely in their coolers.   

   

[Brent Hutto]

My point is, those golfers in the article Jeff mentioned do not play faster because they play matches rather than stroke-play games. If they tend to play faster and they tend toward match-play then both are because of one shared reason. It's because they have something different in mind when they step on the course than the typical USA golfer.

At your local course next weekend, grab the first foursome you see walking off the course after their Nassau match. Ask them "What did you shoot?" and you'll get four immediate answers. Whatever match or game or competition they might have going on, they are out there with the solid intention of knowing their stroke play score when they walk off the 18th green. Plus or minus various gimme putts, mulligans, ESC adjustments and who knows what all. But they think of it as a stroke-play score.

Ask a group from the article Jeff cites and each guy may or may not know his scorecard number. That group went to the course to "have a game" together which was likely some form of match play or Stableford points. Most USA golfers, friend Lou included, want to know that scorecard number no matter what. And the USGA Handicap System reflect (and reinforces) that preference very strongly.

[Mark Pearce]

sitting on my ass in the bar whining about slow, lazy American golfers riding in their carts guzzling their easily accessible beer icing nicely in their coolers. 

Strange, in all my years playing golf in the UK I have completely missed this topic of conversation.  Perhaps I should use it this weekend?

[Jason Walker]

All sounds good until you see a couple of 18 hcaps grinding out putts for triple to halve the hole.

[Bill_Yates]

Jeff,
Great topic! Great article!

In 2000, I travelled to Great Britain to answer the question, "Do the Brits Play Faster Than We Do?"  My answer is, "No, they just get done sooner."

Click on the link to find out why.   http://www.pacemanager.com/uploaded_files/fck/files/a-wee-bit-quicker.pdf

In GB golf is treated more like a competition between friends, not a competition against the course.  As pointed out by Adam Barr and others above, match play is the format that makes that possible, but there are other factors that will be hard to replicate here in the U.S.

[Mark Chaplin]

Jason - in the submit every score scenario, they would have picked up and given each other a 5 on the card. Submitting scores kills playing at a sensible speed especially when "scores" are riddled with gimmies, mulligans and pick ups.

All the computer does is encourage a lack of integrity.

[Garland Bayley]

... I know they play in 2.5-3 hours and cannot be that much better golfers than here.
...

Are you some kind of egotist low handicapper? You constantly come up with this implication that poor golfers are slow players. Even when it is totally counter intuitive. There can't be an iota difference in the abilities of the average golfers here or there. After all they are average. So you see, it is the average golfers playing in 2.5-3 hours. Where does that put the low handicappers in speed of play? My experience is that they grind for scores and ruin the game for the rest of us.

[JMEvensky]

 You constantly come up with this implication that poor golfers are slow players. Even when it is totally counter intuitive.

Whether bad golfers are or aren't slower is moot--but it certainly isn't counter-intuitive.

It takes longer to swing a golf club 95 times than it does to swing it 75. How do you propose making up the time for those extra swings--sprint full speed to your shank?

[Tom_Doak]

Jeff,
Great topic! Great article!

In 2000, I travelled to Great Britain to answer the question, "Do the Brits Play Faster Than We Do?"  My answer is, "No, they just get done sooner."

Click on the link to find out why.   http://www.pacemanager.com/uploaded_files/fck/files/a-wee-bit-quicker.pdf

In GB golf is treated more like a competition between friends, not a competition against the course.  As pointed out by Adam Barr and others above, match play is the format that makes that possible, but there are other factors that will be hard to replicate here in the U.S.

Bill:

I enjoyed your article about the differences between Britain and America and much of it is true.  The green-to-tee distances overseas are much, much shorter, which enabled us to play so fast in St. Andrews for the Hundred Hole Hike last week.  You couldn't find an easier place to walk 100 holes in a day.

However, I would question your "finding" that the Brits do not play any faster than the Americans, and it's mostly about the green-to-tee distances.  In my experience, they are indeed faster.  Part of it's due to match play -- or foursomes, which is the fastest game known to man!  But partly it's due to attitude.  I think they are generally more ready to play when it's their turn, and I don't think they take as many practice swings or pre-shot routines as Americans do.  They expect to be done in 3 hours and get back to the 19th hole, or get on home.  And they expect that whether they are going to shoot 75 or 90.

[Garland Bayley]

 You constantly come up with this implication that poor golfers are slow players. Even when it is totally counter intuitive.

Whether bad golfers are or aren't slower is moot--but it certainly isn't counter-intuitive.

It takes longer to swing a golf club 95 times than it does to swing it 75. How do you propose making up the time for those extra swings--sprint full speed to your shank?

That's three extra minutes. Or, about 3 green reads for the low handicapper. About time he started sprinting to the green so he can take his time reading it.

[Bill_Yates]

Tom,
I agree fully. Format is everything and they can and do step on the gas when necessary.  One gentleman remarked to me  that, "Nothing moves play along better than a chilly, wet day and the prospect of a good wine cellar."

By the way, let me say that your work at Sebonack was magnificent.  I had the chance to walk the course all last week while working with the USGA and observed some pretty remarkable play on some pretty remarkable green complexes.  Thanks for all of your gifts to the game.

[Ben Voelker]

 You constantly come up with this implication that poor golfers are slow players. Even when it is totally counter intuitive.

Whether bad golfers are or aren't slower is moot--but it certainly isn't counter-intuitive.

It takes longer to swing a golf club 95 times than it does to swing it 75. How do you propose making up the time for those extra swings--sprint full speed to your shank?

That's three extra minutes. Or, about 3 green reads for the low handicapper. About time he started sprinting to the green so he can take his time reading it.

The crux of this problem is the pre-shot routine for the high handicapper.  If it takes 1 minute for every stroke by the time you find the distance, take 2 practice swings, line up, waggle and hit, that's 20 extra minutes for the high handicapper as opposed to the low  handicapper (per golfer!).  While 1 minute may be an exaggeration, I was being a single golfer yesterday for 3 holes that easily took that long and was clearly a high handicapper.  He was brutally slow and walked slowly to boot.

I don't think you'll change the competitive inclinations of golfers in the US to align more with golfers in the UK.  There's too much precedent for that to happen.  If we just got people moving, we could shave ions off a round of golf.

Walk faster, find your distance as you walk and hit the damn ball when you get there!

If you're in a cart, drop a guy off once he picks a club and make him walk to his partner's ball.

I really believe these small changes would make a huge difference.

[Mark Chaplin]

Tom the time taken for golf at a proper club in the UK and the US is the same, around 6 hours, the big difference is we use 50% of the time for lunch!

[Adam Clayman]

We play match play everyday, but, it doesn't stop one guy from being all about his score. It's ridiculous how the 3 of us have to wait for all the practice swings, and extra time over those all important putts. 

It all boils down to consideration of others.

[Sean_A]

I think we must separate out tourist/holiday golf and daily club golf.  Its easy to understand folks on holiday paying a lot of money wanting to hit the shots.  I know I always encourage guys out of the hole to drop in good positions to hit that extra shot if they must.  If one is playing at their home club picking up is no big fuss. 

There is no question that generally speaking more courses in GB&I are more walker friendly.  I spose there are far fewer modern courses than in the US, but there is a noted difference in GB&I when playing modern designs - they are slower to get round.  Jeepers, I never thought Trump Aberdeen was going to end - just walking and walking and walking without hitting shots - I could never be a member of a place like that.  I would think it would be a very fdast round to get a 4ball round there in close to 4 hours.  Just the sort of speeding up of play I hate - fast walking - but that is the only way to make up time at Trump. 

I do think part of the problem is a matter of being clued in as to what type of game is being played and then follow along accordingly. Far too often golfers are selfish and not really paying attention to what is going on.  Incidentally, this also helps explain why golfers would want trees for safety coverage - they don't pay attention and instead are happy with a false sense of security.   

Ciao

[Jason Topp]

Jeff,
In 2000, I travelled to Great Britain to answer the question, "Do the Brits Play Faster Than We Do?"  My answer is, "No, they just get done sooner."
Click on the link to find out why.   http://www.pacemanager.com/uploaded_files/fck/files/a-wee-bit-quicker.pdf

This article rings true to me.  The green to tee distances and the number of golfers per course are eye popping numbers.

If applied correctly, the USGA handicapping system allows one to pick up when out of a hole.  Stroke control places a maximum score on each hole and, when you pick up, you are supposed to estimate your likely score on a hole and use that for handicap purposes.

Section 4-1 of the handicap manual:

4-1. Unfinished Holes and Conceded Strokes
A player who starts, but does not complete a hole or is conceded a stroke must record for handicap purposes the most likely score. The most likely score may not exceed the player's Equitable Stroke Control limit, defined in Section 4-3. This most likely score should be preceded by an "X." (See Decision 4-1/1.)

There is no limit to the number of unfinished holes a player may have in a round, provided that failure to finish is not for the purpose of handicap manipulation.
 

[Lou_Duran]

I once overheard Hank Haney telling a student that his swing was in so many planes he didn't know which one to look at.  Ditto for the cause of slow play.

Mark Pearce- you and your mates must of the virtuous type, discussing instead the fine architectural features of the course you just played, your opponents' great form, or the great strides being made in Western Europe to curb "carbon pollution" and ensure the world's future in a more pleasing climate.  My recollections of the last Buda I attended include some discussion of the pace of play at Hankley Commons and Liphook (all three rounds were played in four hours).  And you only have to go into the archives on this site for like-kind references.

Brent- in golf, since the beginning, you have a few implements, a ball, and a hole.  The objective, or so I thought, was to use the former to get the ball into the latter.  Since I am into doing your own thing (subject most always to its effects on others), and when in Rome, do as the Romans, I have zero objections to folks picking up before consummation.  In fact, when I played club golf, I feasted on the guys who picked-up the 5-footers when out of the hole and marked the scorecard as having holed it out.

IMO, the most effective way to speed up play is to create a fast-play culture at the club and to do everything possible to facilitate it through course setup, marshaling, and peer pressure.  At the outset, a target pace should be established which is recognized by the members/customers as being reasonable, legitimate.  Colonial CC in Fort Worth is over 7,000 yards- and the back tees do get used, is tightly bunkered, and heavily wooded.  Much of the year after the NIT, the rough is long and wiry.  Even during the weekend with a full tee sheet of fourball matches, they regularly play in or under four hours.

Conversely, we talk about fast play on this site till the cows come home.   Yet, based on the many outings I've attended, it is mostly an intellectual exercise that has been rarely verified physically.  And all of our competitions are match play.

Some of the things we can do individually to quicken the pace have been noted, but we also all need to help one another (and even other groups) to move along.  Few golfers believe that they are slow.  Does a friend tell a friend he is slow?  Try it some time and report back.  

[Garland Bayley]

...
The crux of this problem is the pre-shot routine for the high handicapper.  If it takes 1 minute for every stroke by the time you find the distance, take 2 practice swings, line up, waggle and hit, that's 20 extra minutes for the high handicapper as opposed to the low  handicapper (per golfer!).  While 1 minute may be an exaggeration, I was being a single golfer yesterday for 3 holes that easily took that long and was clearly a high handicapper.  He was brutally slow and walked slowly to boot.
...

And where did he learn that pre-shot routine? From low and plus handicappers. You may have played with a slow high handicapper, but it is unfair to make generalizations. I've played with a high handicapper putting up a 109 that was mad enough to spit tacks at the slow low handicapper that was grinding for his 80. The foursome round took right around four hours, because of one guy, while we high handicappers are used to getting around in three hours.


The crux of the problem is personal habits of individuals.

[Bill_McBride]

Tom the time taken for golf at a proper club in the UK and the US is the same, around 6 hours, the big difference is we use 50% of the time for lunch!

....including copious quantities of claret!   I have seen you in action.   

[George Blunt]

In my experience (Australia, India, UK and USA) the devotion to playing as a foursome in USA is the biggest time killer.  

I agree improvements in format (more match, less strokeplay) better cart driving, more walking, fewer (no) practice swings, quicker holing out, etc.  will speed up play.

But the only undisputable fact is that the same 3 people take less time to complete 18 holes than the same 4 people, and 2 less than 3.  To really make a difference to pace of play, any solutions need to include allocation of time slots for twosome and threesome play, ahead of foursome play.  

For the public operator with a full tee sheet, this is unnecessary.  For private clubs and other less than full capacity facilities, this is a quick and inexpensive fix, especially when combined with formats such as stableford and par.

George

[Mitch Hantman]

I think there are many other differences that account for the speed of play differences between the US and UK.  For example, in the US, as a general rule, the golf costs more, there is at least a cart fee, and thus the tendency to "get one's money's worth".  In the UK, dues are less in general, and carts are seldom used.

In the states, the handicap system is totally different, since all scores MUST be posted for handicap purposes.  Under the UK system, ONLY sanctioned medal rounds MAY count for handicap, therefore for most rounds, he CAN'T post his score, so he is more likely to pick up when he has lost the hole.  Also, the casual matches in the UK tend to be simpler, either for a pint or a pound or two.  Less personal bets going on, therefore more picking up on the green.  As a matter of fact, it is quite unusual to see a UK golfer carrying a scorecard in his pocket, much less a pencil!

[Michael Ryan]

What a fantastic thread-I come to this site for the discussion on architecture, but confess I enjoy many of the technically "OT" threads related to golf and love that this forum is global.

I'm a US golfer, play to a 6 handicap and happen to be a very fast player.  I have a one year old daughter and therfore I'm constantly
"negotiating" with my wife on time to play.  Up until this year I was at the mercy of public courses in CT and the typical 5 hour rounds.  I would usually go alone and be paired with golfers of all skill levels, but statistics play out in a way that more than most are double digit handicaps.  I have also worked with my family (parents and in laws) who have come to the game late and tried to assist them in not only improving, but learning the etiquette. 

This year we made a decision to join a small club near our house.  I was absolutely gutted to learn that the club I joined is famous for a game that has the 1st tee from 8 am to 9 am every weekend morning and the format of this game is a point quota.  Basically, everyone plays stroke play and has to hole out and can only pick up if they are on their way to a double bogey or worse.  While I will give them credit and say they happen to play this game pretty quickly, if you tee of after 9 am-you are looking at a 4 hour round up to 4 and 1/2 hours (riding).  I have been vocal from the beginning that I feel this format of play is absolutely the wrong way for a club to operate.  It's an older bunch and I understand it's losing steam.  I'm leading a charge of young members to try and educate people on the benefits of playing faster and that match play and foursome matches are the ideal format. 

A few thoughts on the mindset of US golfers:

The first question anyone asks in the 19th hole or a Saturday evening cocktail party is "What did you shoot?".  I absolutely love to answer "We halved" or "I lost 2 & 1" and watch their reaction. 

There is a ridiculous obsession with recording every score in the GHIN computer as anyone who isn't recording their scores is thought to be "sandbagging".  Personally, my obsession with match play and picking up when on the way to double or worse is exactly what I perceive the GHIN system is going to do with my score anway.  I'm in the minority on this thought process.

There are golfers of all skill levels and there are golfers who are fast and slow.  While there is no direct correlation, I will say the poorer golfers tend to be the slower golfers.  I see this with my friends and family that struggle in the game.  It's very difficult to help someone play faster and not cross over into "rushing" them.  I have one frequent playing partner who has a handicap in the mid 20's.  They aren't very athletic and struggle with the game.  They are trying to improve.  They are brutally slow.  Whether it's a topped drive that catches in the rough prior to the fairway or a topped hybrid that goes 10 yards left into a deep fairway bunker, something happens almost every hole that slows them down.  The worst part is that in trying to play fast and not hold anyone up-they get near the green and start to rush.  Many times I watch them skull a chip and make the matter worse.  I have tried very hard to help and given them every tip for fast play (be ready to play when it's your turn, park the cart or leave the carry bag on the way to the next tee, put the sand wedge down on the edge of the green where you will walk off, etc.).  No matter what, their level of play is the biggest culprit.  Yes, we all know some good players who have a routine that makes them slow-but for each of them, I can show you 10 players whose skill level puts them behind the 8 ball starting on the first tee.

I have an affection for the UK/Irish model of play and just returned from a late May trip to the SW of Ireland.  I observe many local members play at Waterville and Ballybunion.  Here is what I saw:

Everyone walks as opposed to most people riding in the US, they are already one up.

They are ready to play when it's their turn.

They play match play and concede a hole when it's clear the result is no longer in question.

I only play my new club on weekends when I can arrive at 7 am and get ahead of the regular game.  If paired with one, we take around 3 hours, paired with more, 3 and 1/2.  I'm off the course at 10:30 am and back at the house at 11 am and not in trouble.  I would give anything to be able to arrive at the club at 9 am, get some more sleep and play in the same amount of time.  Unless I wake up one day in the UK as a member of a club there, I doubt it will happen.

Mike

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