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Nigel Islam

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Courses routed perpendicular to a hillside
« on: July 05, 2013, 06:57:58 PM »
I had the the good fortune of playing Olympic's Lake course this April, and what impressed me about the course is how it was routed with the holes perpendicular to the slope of the hill going down to the lake. It struck me as a bit of mad genius in the routing. I figure most courses I have played on such severe property would have included a lot of holes going uphill and downhill. Are there any other courses that use this routing technique?
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Keith Grande

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Re: Courses routed perpendicular to a hillside
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2013, 07:57:03 PM »
I believe Olympic Club,site of last years US Open had holes built into the side of the hill which the property sits upon. I believe it was over 200 feet elevation from top of the course to the bottom.
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Pete_Pittock

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Re: Courses routed perpendicular to a hillside
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2013, 08:06:41 PM »
In Canmore BC you can compare Gary Brownings perpendicular routed Stewart Creek versus Les Furber's vertical SilverTip.

A few mountain ranges to the west, the Zokol inspired Sagebrush is another example of perperndiculaity, after the first hole.
For me its worth an 8 hr drive a few times a year.
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Bill_Yates

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Re: Courses routed perpendicular to a hillside
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2013, 08:56:02 PM »
A great and dramatic routing can be found in the Gullane No.1 Course.  Hole #2, a Par 4, 390 yard hole takes you up through a valley to the top of the hill then offers you a view of fourteen wonderful seaside holes that take you gently down toward the sea and back to the top. Then Hole #17 drops dramatically another 390 yards parallel to Hole #2.  from the tee the player has a final view of the beautiful  Scottish countryside and the home hole lying below.

In my opinion, this is a marvelous natural routing that takes advantage of the significant natural elevation changes to the fullest, providing challenging golf and wonderful views for the player. 
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Bill Yates
www.pacemanager.com 
"When you manage the pace of play, you manage the quality of golf."

Mike_Young

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Re: Courses routed perpendicular to a hillside
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2013, 09:50:49 PM »
Nigel,
I think most courses that wish to drain water across fairways instead of down a fairway are routed in such a manner...IMHO the Donald (Ross that is) usually plce greens and tees on ridges and routed across swales etc instead of going up and down the swales within a property.  Now in stating the above I am referring to the general topo fo the course's property and not the smaller ups and downs within a hole itself...
cheers...
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Jim Sherma

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Re: Courses routed perpendicular to a hillside
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2013, 10:21:58 PM »
Harker's Hollow in Phillipsburg, NJ. Old Robert White course. Most of front nine (4-8) goes up and down steep hillside while most of back nine tacks upwards across a brow in the mountain prior to dropping down at the 17th.
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John Kirk

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Re: Courses routed perpendicular to a hillside
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2013, 11:07:55 PM »
About 8-10 years ago, I played a course in western Pennsylvania named Totteridge, a Rees Jones design.  John VanderBorght took me out there when he was working for the WPGA.  If I recall correctly, Totteridge relies heavily on a few long holes benched into the sides of two or three small hills which surround a valley.  Not exactly the same thing, where The Olympic Club is built on a large side hill.  Totteridge is well regarded, rated #19 in the state of Pennsylvania.

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-courses/pennsylvania

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Bill Vogeney

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Re: Courses routed perpendicular to a hillside
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2013, 12:12:19 AM »
The mountain course at The Broadmoor in Colorado Springs is situated on very steep land in the foothills. Virtually on the side of the mountain.
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Jim McCann

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Re: Courses routed perpendicular to a hillside
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2013, 01:37:01 AM »
Tecina in the Canary islands slaloms down a hillside with a very clever routing.

The European Challenge Tour has held an event there in recent years.

I've mentioned this one before (reply #12) in another thread:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,48819.0.html
« Last Edit: July 07, 2013, 02:15:48 AM by Jim McCann »
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Michael Goldstein

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Re: Courses routed perpendicular to a hillside
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2013, 01:46:39 AM »
Spring City in Yunnan Province, China is a very good example of this.

There is significant elevation change from the highest point (the clubhouse) to the 9th/10th holes.  The front nine winds down a steep hill with the holes cut perpendicular to the slope. The back nine is the opposite.  I can imagine the last 5/6 holes would be a very difficult walk.

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@Pure_Golf

Joel_Stewart

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Re: Courses routed perpendicular to a hillside
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2013, 11:14:21 AM »
The genius of the Olympic Club (the current routing is from 1927) is the/was the ability to play the angles and slopes.  Sadly the aerial game has taken over and you seldom see those type of shots.
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Bill_McBride

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Re: Courses routed perpendicular to a hillside
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2013, 11:27:44 AM »
Quote from: Jim Sherma on July 05, 2013, 10:21:58 PM
Harker's Hollow in Phillipsburg, NJ. Old Robert White course. Most of front nine (4-8) goes up and down steep hillside while most of back nine tacks upwards across a brow in the mountain prior to dropping down at the 17th.

Stanley Thompson tackled the Capilano mountainside the same way, with several holes that plunge straight downhill to the bottom of the course (#6), and then a string of holes that tack back and forth across the slope to get you back up to clubhouse level at #15.  Genius, you really don't feel winded after all that. 
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Niall C

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Re: Courses routed perpendicular to a hillside
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2013, 11:28:05 AM »
Quote from: Bill_Yates on July 05, 2013, 08:56:02 PM
A great and dramatic routing can be found in the Gullane No.1 Course.  Hole #2, a Par 4, 390 yard hole takes you up through a valley to the top of the hill then offers you a view of fourteen wonderful seaside holes that take you gently down toward the sea and back to the top. Then Hole #17 drops dramatically another 390 yards parallel to Hole #2.  from the tee the player has a final view of the beautiful  Scottish countryside and the home hole lying below.

In my opinion, this is a marvelous natural routing that takes advantage of the significant natural elevation changes to the fullest, providing challenging golf and wonderful views for the player. 

Bill

Its been a while since I last played Gullane No 1 but I remember most fo the holes as basically playing up and down the hill whereas No's 2 & 3 each have several holes that play across the hill as well as up and down. The Gullane courses are unusual in that respect in that they are the only links courses I can think of that I've played that play over and round a hill. Perhaps St Edinoc is like that but I've never played it.

Niall
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Adam Clayman

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Re: Courses routed perpendicular to a hillside
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2013, 12:20:45 PM »
Quote from: Joel_Stewart on July 06, 2013, 11:14:21 AM
The genius of the Olympic Club (the current routing is from 1927) is the/was the ability to play the angles and slopes.  Sadly the aerial game has taken over and you seldom see those type of shots.

Aerial and Arboreal.
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"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Tom_Doak

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Re: Courses routed perpendicular to a hillside
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2013, 03:46:51 PM »
Whether it's a good idea to route along the side of a hill has a lot to do with the slope of that hill.

If the slope is more than about 8%, then you are going to have to do a lot of grading to stop balls from bouncing and rolling to the low side of the hole in the landing areas of the par-4's, and the more steep it is the more awkward it will look.  Spring City, mentioned by Michael, is extremely steep, so that's what had to be done ... it looks okay because the clubhouse is at the top and you are always looking down toward the lake.  From out on the lake it probably looks AWFUL.
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Adam_Messix

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Re: Courses routed perpendicular to a hillside
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2013, 03:51:47 PM »
Nigel--

The back nine at Rolling Rock Club is a bit like that.  The tenth hole is along the hillside, the 11th drops into the valley, the 12th is a par five at the bottom and then you seemingly stair step your way back to the clubhouse.  I'm amazed that Silva was able to get it in, but it will justly be overshadowed by the tremendous Ross greens that are on the front. 
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Nigel Islam

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Re: Courses routed perpendicular to a hillside
« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2013, 05:55:21 PM »
What do you guys think the grade is at Olympic-Lake? It is probably close to 8% I would think?
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John Scharon

Re: Courses routed perpendicular to a hillside
« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2013, 09:24:58 PM »
Most of the holes on the upper end of Oakmont slope up and down from the clubhouse on top of the hill.  Makes for a very physically demanding course.

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David_Tepper

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Re: Courses routed perpendicular to a hillside
« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2013, 11:22:32 PM »
Nigel -

Legend has it that the San Francisco Golf Club, when scouting for a new location early in the 20th century (prior to where that club is now located), rejected the site where the OC Lake Course is now located as being much too sloped and unsuitable for a golf course.

DT
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Patrick_Mucci

Re: Courses routed perpendicular to a hillside
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2013, 11:44:09 PM »
Tom Doak,

Green Brook, in Northern NJ is an example of a course routed across the slopes.

It makes for difficult golf, especially as conditions get F&F.
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Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Courses routed perpendicular to a hillside
« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2013, 04:08:19 AM »
In Ireland, the best example I can think of where this doesn't work at all is Macreddin Village.

Very steep side slope that the front nine is routed across (i.e. too steep to go up and down).... Therefore a lot of shaping to hold each hole on tiers... Therefore a course that looks very contrived.

Even some of the classic courses (heathland) where this feature is used are now bordering on some silly holes because the fairways play firmer than they did when designed.

But when used within the correct slopes - then definitely.

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