News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Brad Swanson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New courses being built in WI?
« Reply #25 on: July 23, 2013, 11:06:52 AM »
Would be great to get more details in bigger than 140 character snippets. 

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New courses being built in WI?
« Reply #26 on: July 23, 2013, 11:13:44 AM »
Awesome news, for sure! And at only 3.5 hours from the Twin Cities!

Would love more detail, of course.

After scanning the area via satellite I can honestly say I don't see anything resembling dunes, but I trust that they are there.
H.P.S.

Brad Swanson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New courses being built in WI?
« Reply #27 on: July 23, 2013, 11:16:32 AM »
Seeing as the 2 lakes where the WI river is dammed-up make-up the majority of the western boundary of Adams CO, I'd venture a guess that the property in question is somewhere south of Castle Rock Lake, which would put it about an hour west of Lawsonia.

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Adams+County,+WI&hl=en&ll=43.922626,-89.696503&spn=0.857586,1.837463&sll=44.123085,-89.594879&sspn=0.854691,1.837463&oq=+Adams+County&t=h&hnear=Adams,+Wisconsin&z=10
« Last Edit: July 23, 2013, 11:32:57 AM by Brad Swanson »

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New courses being built in WI?
« Reply #28 on: July 23, 2013, 11:24:25 AM »
 Perhaps Mr. Keiser's dream of re-building the Lido is about to be realized?

"Is there any question this would be a winner?"

More...

http://www.golfworldmagazine.com/golfworld/20130128?pg=27#pg27
« Last Edit: July 23, 2013, 05:07:24 PM by Eric Smith »

Andrew Buck

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New courses being built in WI? Yes!
« Reply #29 on: July 23, 2013, 11:36:10 AM »



According to the town website, Rome is "located on the northern border of Adams County, one and one half hours northwest of Madison and only 45-minutes north of the Wisconsin Dells area." (http://www.romewi.com/)

Anyone here familiar with the site or area?  (Beyond Tom and Jim.)

Are their 2 Rome, WI's?  From a quick google maps it's bringing me to a small town about halfway from Milwaukee and Madison.  Way southeast of this discription.

That would be great, I wonder if they will be public or private.

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New courses being built in WI? Yes!
« Reply #30 on: July 23, 2013, 11:39:08 AM »



According to the town website, Rome is "located on the northern border of Adams County, one and one half hours northwest of Madison and only 45-minutes north of the Wisconsin Dells area." (http://www.romewi.com/)

Anyone here familiar with the site or area?  (Beyond Tom and Jim.)

Are their 2 Rome, WI's?  From a quick google maps it's bringing me to a small town about halfway from Milwaukee and Madison.  Way southeast of this discription.



Yes -- one just east of Fort Atkinson, in southeast Wisconsin, and one just south of Wisc. Rapids, in central Wisconsin. It's the latter one under consideration.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New courses being built in WI?
« Reply #31 on: July 23, 2013, 11:43:36 AM »
There is plenty of sand under those pines.  It may very well be similar to the sand barren pines of N.C. around Pinehurst.  That sort of area extends a great way.  Even Camp McCoy is full of sand-pine barrens.  

The question is.... will there be a market of golfers?  There are 1000s of areas of sandy barrens in this country.  But, are there golfers near or willing to travel to them?  Sand Hills is special because of the vast alluring empty spaces to 'get away'.  But, sandy pine barrens are in many places throughout the country, and not even as remote as Hooker Co and Mullen, etc.  But, is Adams Co WI appealing and unique enough to be a destination?  Camelot, Arrowhead, Castle Rock and that area are pretty saturated with cabin retreats already.  As Jeff was saying, they were on that area 30 years ago with their project at Lake Arrowhead.  Can the area support yet another project with enough draw from TCs and Chi-Milw-Madtown and Dells goers?  

Besides Lake Arrowhead, a pretty decent private club is north of there in Wisconsin Rapids, Bullseye, designed by the Packards.  That is also on a sandy pine barren site on the river.  

Gotta admire the intrepid and entrepreneurial spirit of Keiser if he is the guy who is going to bring more great golf to that area for us Badgers, if it is in the realm of what Badgers will pay and afford...  ;) ;D

Eric, Pinehurst-like, yes.... Lido, not so much given the terrain.

No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New courses being built in WI?
« Reply #32 on: July 23, 2013, 12:29:02 PM »
This is phenomenal news.  Keiser is my hero.  Golf was meant to be played on sand.  When you think of it in those terms it's a no-brainer.  Any Chicagoan with a clue will make a beeline for this place.  Kohler should be afraid, very afraid.  I might call an audible on one of those GCA's however...    ;)
« Last Edit: July 26, 2013, 05:21:56 AM by Jud T »
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Andrew Buck

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New courses being built in WI?
« Reply #33 on: July 23, 2013, 12:36:13 PM »
This is phenomenal news.  Keiser is my hero.  Golf was meant to be played on sand.  When you think of it in those terms it's a no-brainer.  Any Chicagoan with a clue will make will make a beeline for this place.  Kohler should be afraid, very afraid.  I might call an audible on one of those GCA's however...    ;)

Sand is such a great soil ... if only I had the time to get to such locals with any regularity.   :'(

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New courses being built in WI?
« Reply #34 on: July 23, 2013, 12:54:36 PM »
If it is a go, and Keiser picks Doak, then Brian Schneider ought to be a no-brainer to lead the project!   8) 
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New courses being built in WI?
« Reply #35 on: July 23, 2013, 01:17:33 PM »
There is plenty of sand under those pines.  It may very well be similar to the sand barren pines of N.C. around Pinehurst.  That sort of area extends a great way.  Even Camp McCoy is full of sand-pine barrens.  

The question is.... will there be a market of golfers?  There are 1000s of areas of sandy barrens in this country.  But, are there golfers near or willing to travel to them?  Sand Hills is special because of the vast alluring empty spaces to 'get away'.  But, sandy pine barrens are in many places throughout the country, and not even as remote as Hooker Co and Mullen, etc.  But, is Adams Co WI appealing and unique enough to be a destination?  Camelot, Arrowhead, Castle Rock and that area are pretty saturated with cabin retreats already.  As Jeff was saying, they were on that area 30 years ago with their project at Lake Arrowhead.  Can the area support yet another project with enough draw from TCs and Chi-Milw-Madtown and Dells goers?  

Besides Lake Arrowhead, a pretty decent private club is north of there in Wisconsin Rapids, Bullseye, designed by the Packards.  That is also on a sandy pine barren site on the river.  

Gotta admire the intrepid and entrepreneurial spirit of Keiser if he is the guy who is going to bring more great golf to that area for us Badgers, if it is in the realm of what Badgers will pay and afford...  ;) ;D

Eric, Pinehurst-like, yes.... Lido, not so much given the terrain.



RJ,

It might be the best site in Wisconsin for a destination golf resort. Erin Hills, Kohler, and even Lawsonia might be too far away to capture day or one-night golfers from the Twin Cities. So while still being able to take advantage of Chicago, Milwaukee, Madison, and Green Bay golfers they can attract from the (bigger than you think) golfing population of the Twin Cities.
H.P.S.

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New courses being built in WI?
« Reply #36 on: July 23, 2013, 01:26:55 PM »
Pat:

You do realize how "nowhere" this is, right? If it's the land I think it is, anyone who gets there from the Twin Cities in less than three hours is ignoring most speed limits (but perhaps not some of the state's finest :D).

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New courses being built in WI?
« Reply #37 on: July 23, 2013, 01:56:20 PM »
Pat:

You do realize how "nowhere" this is, right? If it's the land I think it is, anyone who gets there from the Twin Cities in less than three hours is ignoring most speed limits (but perhaps not some of the state's finest :D).

According to Google Maps (always more time accounted for than what it actually takes) Adams, WI is 3hr 15min from my house. It's 3hr40min from my old apartment in downtown Chicago (and it means it's only 3hr 20min from the affluent North Shore). It's 2hr 31min from Rochester, MN and it's thousands of doctors and IBM employees. It's roughly 2hr 24min from downtown Milwaukee, 2hr 13min from Green Bay, and 1hr 34 min from Madison.  It's also only ~45min off of I-94 and ~45min north of the Wisconsin Dells. Even if not speeding, this place can be done in a day trip from any of the above starting points, if someone was up for it.

So, it's exactly in the middle of nowhere but it's also in almost the middle of every major metro in the upper Midwest.
H.P.S.

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New courses being built in WI?
« Reply #38 on: July 23, 2013, 01:59:07 PM »
If I were to guess, the land for this project might be a large chunk of land -- all of it with a sandy-soil base -- just south of the Lake Arrowhead golf resort (that Jeff Brauer worked on in his youth... :) ) Just google "Lake Arrowhead WI" and go a little bit southwest; the land I'm thinking of is bordered by Highway 13 on the east side, 16th Avenue on the west, and south of Archer Avenue.

If I were a betting man, I'd guess nearly all of that land is or was once owned by the paper mills, as large mills exist (or did) in nearby Nekoosa, Port Edwards, and the giant Consolidated Papers complex in Wisc. Rapids. Some of it appears logged out, some of it still planted. As the paper mills in Wisconsin gear down their operations (http://www.jsonline.com/business/paper-industry-digital-china-wisconsin-182612951.html), it wouldn't surprise me if the mills have decided to sell off some of their land holdings.

There is a ton of land up there, almost all of it completely unoccupied, just barren with little in the way of roads or infrastructure of any kind -- in essence, a pretty blank slate, which probably appeals to Mr. Keiser (given some of the issues he faced with the Bandon property). Some interesting terrain up there, as well. If I get some time later this summer, I might be able to swing up there and grab some pictures.

Can this fly? Like RJ, I'm a bit skeptical at this point. There aren't any views of the Pacific Ocean, or even Lake Michigan, from south of Wisc. Rapids.

For the life of me, I can't figure out where the 60-foot dunes alongside the Wisconsin River are. ??? There are a couple of big chunks of undeveloped land along the river just south of Rapids, but it's land very similar to where Bull's Eye (private) was built.




JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New courses being built in WI?
« Reply #39 on: July 23, 2013, 02:02:41 PM »
Remember when Kiser was lauded for picking new and/or outside of the box designers?

Even revolutionary can become formulaic.  
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New courses being built in WI?
« Reply #40 on: July 23, 2013, 02:19:27 PM »
Pat:

The "close to lots of big cities" was the very same thinking that Herb Kohler had up his sleeve when people laughed at him (and I know people who literally did snicker) for putting up a bunch of high-end golf courses in the brat capitol of the world. And, yes, it worked for him.

But this Keiser project is not a day trip from the Twin Cities. I don't think it's a day trip from Milwaukee. It's maybe a day trip from Madison, or the Fox Valley. And it's going to have to be pretty good to get me to day-trip there instead of Lawsonia.

It's not that I don't think quality work could be done there; the soils at a minimum are ideal. It's just that I wonder just how much of this stuff the state can sustain. As others have mentioned, it's not like the utter isolation of the Sand Hills, or hanging on the rim of the Pacific Ocean. It's a bunch of logging land south of Wisconsin Rapids -- I don't know what the opposite term for "destination" is, but if there is one, that's where this is.

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New courses being built in WI?
« Reply #41 on: July 23, 2013, 02:50:07 PM »
If it is a go, and Keiser picks Doak, then Brian Schneider ought to be a no-brainer to lead the project!   8) 

Why is that?   I'm sure both Tom and Mike will have a say and it wouldn't surprise me if Jim Urbina or Bruce Hepner became involved.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: New courses being built in WI?
« Reply #42 on: July 23, 2013, 03:01:44 PM »
If it is a go, and Keiser picks Doak, then Brian Schneider ought to be a no-brainer to lead the project!   8) 

Why is that?   I'm sure both Tom and Mike will have a say and it wouldn't surprise me if Jim Urbina or Bruce Hepner became involved.

Joel:

I'm sure RJ said that because Brian Schneider lives in Wisconsin, and went to college there.  Plus he's built a couple of great courses, too.  However, at present I'm just one of many architects who would like to do the job, and that's all. 

I would love to work on a project with Mr. Keiser again, and we'd love to work close to home.  I'll be sure to let everyone know if and when there's something more to announce.

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New courses being built in WI?
« Reply #43 on: July 23, 2013, 04:20:46 PM »
Phil,

I doubt day-trippers are the ultimate target market.  It's a perfect location for a weekend resort within reach of millions of people.  How many golfers are within a 4 hour drive of this location?  How many Doak 8 public courses (or private for that matter) built on sand are within the same radius?  You've got Bandon, Bandon East (Cabot complex), and now perhaps Bandon Midwest.  Top tier links golf within relatively easy reach of anyone in North America.  I think this website should take full credit.... ;D
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Howard Riefs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New courses being built in WI?
« Reply #44 on: July 23, 2013, 04:54:10 PM »
I doubt day-trippers are the ultimate target market.  It's a perfect location for a weekend resort within reach of millions of people. 

And it's the best option possible for all the dads visiting the Dells with the family who don't want to set foot in a water park.
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New courses being built in WI?
« Reply #45 on: July 23, 2013, 05:21:37 PM »
I doubt day-trippers are the ultimate target market.  It's a perfect location for a weekend resort within reach of millions of people. 

And it's the best option possible for all the dads visiting the Dells with the family who don't want to set foot in a water park.

They certainly built all of those resorts at the Dells for a reason! Location, location, location....
H.P.S.

JR Potts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New courses being built in WI?
« Reply #46 on: July 23, 2013, 05:24:58 PM »
If it is a go, and Keiser picks Doak, then Brian Schneider ought to be a no-brainer to lead the project!   8) 

Why is that?   I'm sure both Tom and Mike will have a say and it wouldn't surprise me if Jim Urbina or Bruce Hepner became involved.

Joel:

I'm sure RJ said that because Brian Schneider lives in Wisconsin, and went to college there.  Plus he's built a couple of great courses, too.  However, at present I'm just one of many architects who would like to do the job, and that's all. 

I would love to work on a project with Mr. Keiser again, and we'd love to work close to home.  I'll be sure to let everyone know if and when there's something more to announce.


You're already working close to home....as is Brian.  I am thankful for both of those things as the product looks spectacular.

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New courses being built in WI?
« Reply #47 on: July 23, 2013, 05:44:17 PM »
Phil,

I doubt day-trippers are the ultimate target market.  It's a perfect location for a weekend resort within reach of millions of people.  How many golfers are within a 4 hour drive of this location?  How many Doak 8 public courses (or private for that matter) built on sand are within the same radius?  You've got Bandon, Bandon East (Cabot complex), and now perhaps Bandon Midwest.  Top tier links golf within relatively easy reach of anyone in North America.  I think this website should take full credit.... ;D

Jud: It's a six-month season -- and that includes notoriously fickle May and October. It could maybe open in April, but I've driven through legitimate snowstorms in central Wisconsin in April. And October can be either heaven on earth or awful golf weather up there. And there is nothing of interest nearby -- there are probably five times as many good restaurants in Green Lake (pop. 960) as there is in Wisc. Rapids. It better be one solid and self-sustaining resort, of which there is exactly one other in Wisconsin (with views on one of its premier courses of Lake Michigan).


Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New courses being built in WI?
« Reply #48 on: July 23, 2013, 06:10:28 PM »
Looking at the area of Lake Arrowhead, they sure covered up what sand dunes we were able to leave on the original course (Pines was the one I worked on....I believe Killian went back after I left to do the second one, which I haven't seen)

I think it will work.  Chicagoans drive north for weekends.  I actually think MSP folks do to, but with this property, they could be induced to go east for at least a few golf trips a year.  I know Giants Ridge and Fortune Bay actually still get bus loads of golf groups.  I once asked how full the tee sheets were and they told me, just two bookings....but each one was a bus of 64 guys.  Very high participation rates up there.

If had the water views some suggest and the sand dunes unadulterated, it would work, IMHO.  Not that I need to tell Keiser anything......

BTW, I always allowed four hours from Palatine, IL to the site.  In the intervening 30 years, the highways may have widened in spots, but there is also more traffic, so it is still at least 4 hours from the NW suburbs.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New courses being built in WI?
« Reply #49 on: July 23, 2013, 06:28:06 PM »
If it is a go, and Keiser picks Doak, then Brian Schneider ought to be a no-brainer to lead the project!   8) 

Why is that?   I'm sure both Tom and Mike will have a say and it wouldn't surprise me if Jim Urbina or Bruce Hepner became involved.
Joel:

I'm sure RJ said that because Brian Schneider lives in Wisconsin, and went to college there.  Plus he's built a couple of great courses, too.  However, at present I'm just one of many architects who would like to do the job, and that's all. 

I would love to work on a project with Mr. Keiser again, and we'd love to work close to home.  I'll be sure to let everyone know if and when there's something more to announce.

I only said that because your bench is quite deep.  If you received the job I'm sure any of your associates would do a great job.

Good luck.

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back