To Trolley or not to Trolley

[archie_struthers]

 

Funny how the US has been slow to embrace pull carts ( trolleys)  like our overseas neighbors. It was indeed considered de rigueur at almost all exclusive clubs to ban same.  The times they are a changing a little , but its safe to say the argument on the merits is far from considered closed. What say you ?

[Jason Topp]

At the public course I play 80% of those who walk use them.  At my private club, 25%.  I think the major difference is terrain.

I think use of them will increase on courses without steep terrain and without mandatory caddies or carts.

[David_Tepper]

Archie -

This has been discussed here in the not too distant past. The good news is many private clubs are now making 3-wheel trolleys available to their members. Here in Northern California, Monterey Peninsula, the Cal Club, Lake Merced and Sonoma have all made trolleys available over the past 3-4 years.

Unfortunately, an element of snobbery regarding the use of trolleys still exists at too many private clubs in the U.S.

DT   

[Sean_A]

While the 3 wheel trolleys are very good (I use on about hallf the time), I am amazed the electric trolley hasn't caught on in the US.  Is this just a matter of time or is there some over-riding reason they have yet to dent the market?

Ciao

[Rich Goodale]

I still carry when I can and feel like it (did 36 for 2.5 days at the last BUDA), but increasingly I pull (when I am playing seriously and don't want to try to manufacture shots with a 7-club bag) and just yesterday rented an electric lawn mower with no blades at a one day 36-hole competition at my home club.  It feels like I have two 4-year old children at the end of my leash, but I made the 36 without any serious injuries, and I see it as my future.  As I am at the bow wave of the War Babies (conceived 5 months after Hiroshima) it is your future too.

[Bill_McBride]

It's a regional thing, and perhaps an index of pretension level.

Pull carts (not usually the Sun Mountain push style) are ubiquitous in GB&I. 

In the Western US and British Columbia, the push models are equally ubiquitous and usually there's no charge, just grab one.  Here and below I'm referring to private clubs.

Not as common in the South, usually you own yours or ride, not many clubs provide them.

I don't know what prevails in Yankee territory. 

[Doug Braunsdorf]

Funny how the US has been slow to embrace pull carts ( trolleys)  like our overseas neighbors. It was indeed considered de rigueur at almost all exclusive clubs to ban same.  The times they are a changing a little , but its safe to say the argument on the merits is far from considered closed. What say you ?

Archie, are you thinking of anywhere in particular?  

We allow them at certain times, I think in the offseason; I believe, and may be mistaken, at this time of year, although we can walk and carry after 2, we can't walk with trolley after 2.  Personally, I would love to be able to use a speed cart at GB.  I have seen some members with it in the off-season times.  My feeling is, we would get the benefit of a little walking exercise in, we would be able to decrease stress on the turf from being beaten up with carts, we may play better (there's a pretty good reason), and I hypothesize we would play a little quicker, because we can go right to the ball.  I have heard this sentiment shared by others as well, and if I am not mistaken, there was some empirical evidence that walking or trolleys decreases a cart round by at least a few minutes per player.    

Our place has an intimate routing, with greens and tees in close proximity.  Yes, we cross under Route 9 going from 3 to 4 and again from 15 to 16, but other than that, we have no steep hills, no half-mile separation between holes.  We can come out of the tunnel and leave the carts and bags at the start of 4 fairway, walk back to the tees, a distance of maybe 50 yards.  Not that great of a hardship.  
I would rather use a trolley at our place than be forced to take a cart.  And we are forced to take carts, as you know. 

I don't know if any of the neighbors in the market offer or allow trolleys, but I do know Schuykill offers them for a nominal amount, which Mark and I have used, even though it is very hilly.  Lulu has them also; Wayne Freeman and I had a wonderful walking round there in May.  

I think we should have carts available for those that wish to use them-there are enough players that would prefer to ride and many that would prefer to walk.  I imagine whoever gets the cart revenue would have an opinion on this, too, for better or worse.    I am sure there are considerations financially about pricing and greens fees w/cart or not.  Let's meet up in the Pub and discuss.  

[Mark Smolens]

"Slow to embrace" in this country is an understatement! There's a walking only course which will host our national championship later this decade, a public no less, which will not permit me to use my push chart. So my options are to use their caddies (each of whom has, in my prior experiences, been at best a bag carrier for whom I am unwilling to pay their price) or to carry my own bag (too old, too lazy, too infirm, or some combination thereof). Oh well, I guess if I want to wander north of the border to play some golf I will just go up to Green Lake and revisit Lawsonia.

[Ed Brzezowski]

Just had this discussion with 4 guys going to Fife Saturday. Bring a bungee cord?? They had no idea pullcarts, trolleys, were the standard over there for guys not carrying.

As far as the electric models I can see why they do not catch on , in Pennsylvania at least, because they are such a pain in the ass to charge up and store. We have one at my club that a gent uses and it looks like more trouble that it is worth. He tries to drag it into the mens locker room and it just looks unwieldly.

Personally I am looking forward to a nice round at Crail pulling my little trolley, now if it just had a Tenants beer holder!

[John McCarthy]

This is my first year spending most of my time pushing a cart.  I got one of those three wheel rigs.  It is much easier than hauling my bag around my home course which is a terrible walk.   

I think in Chicagoland there is a real commitment to caddies as evidenced by the Evans Scholar Foundation.  Also, there is a status distinction in having caddies.  A friend was bemoaning that some members at his course used the trolley saying that it made the course look like a muni.  It is a class thing I think.   

[A.G._Crockett]

While the 3 wheel trolleys are very good (I use on about hallf the time), I am amazed the electric trolley hasn't caught on in the US.  Is this just a matter of time or is there some over-riding reason they have yet to dent the market?

Ciao

Sean,
I think one big part of the answer to this is that electric trolleys are absurdly expensive here.  I have a friend from GB who keeps threatening to start an import business for these; he is continually amazed by the price difference from there to here.

I use my Clicgear about a third of the time, now creeping toward half.  But push carts really aren't very easy on hilly terrain like the course I play.  I've told my wife that my 65th birthday present (now just 4 years away...) will be an electric trolley.

[A.G._Crockett]

IMO, clubs that ban trolleys only SEEM pretentious.  What they really are is either foolish or dishonest.  Or both...

Dishonest if they say it is about appearances rather than revenue.  Foolish because they make it more difficult for members to be in the habit of coming to the club and playing golf.

Case in point.  The management at a club of which I was a member decreed that you could only use a pull cart that you rented from them.  They presented it to the membership as a matter of appearance and uniformity, and bought a fleet of black Sun Mountain V2's.  However, the charge for using the club's trolleys was $10/round.  The carts largely sat idle.

Meanwhile, I happened to already have a black Sun Mountain V2 Speed Cart EXACTLY like the ones they purchased.  I asked if I could use my own, and the answer was no.

So it wasn't really about appearances and uniformity at all.  It was about revenue, and revenue only.  Several months later, I was gone from that club, and I've never looked back.

[Sean_A]

While the 3 wheel trolleys are very good (I use on about hallf the time), I am amazed the electric trolley hasn't caught on in the US.  Is this just a matter of time or is there some over-riding reason they have yet to dent the market?

Ciao

Sean,
I think one big part of the answer to this is that electric trolleys are absurdly expensive here.  I have a friend from GB who keeps threatening to start an import business for these; he is continually amazed by the price difference from there to here.

I use my Clicgear about a third of the time, now creeping toward half.  But push carts really aren't very easy on hilly terrain like the course I play.  I've told my wife that my 65th birthday present (now just 4 years away...) will be an electric trolley.

Gosh, if thats the case why haven't Cleacgear or Sun Mountain come out with a competing model?  There are several models about in the UK.  I see more PowaKaddies than anything else I they don't strike me as of particularly high quality.  I think a basic Powakaddy runs about £300-400.  you won't find a decent one for much less.  I can't believe a well established company can't turn a profit on a $400-500 trolley in the American market.

Ciao 

[Carl Johnson]

Funny how the US has been slow to embrace pull carts ( trolleys)  like our overseas neighbors. It was indeed considered de rigueur at almost all exclusive clubs to ban same.  The times they are a changing a little , but its safe to say the argument on the merits is far from considered closed. What say you ?

I'm not aware of any change - trolleys are still viewed as low class in the USA by those insecure folks who need to reassure themselves they are high class, and therefore prohibit tolleys to show they are not low class.  I doubt it is a revenue issue at many of these clubs.  Does this make any sense?  Of course not, but in the grand scheme of life it is very minor in terms of things people do that do not make sense.

My private golf club in Charlotte allows walking and allows members to use their own trolleys, push, pull or battery powered (the latter is my choice).  For a nominal monthly fee the club will store trolleys, electric and otherwise, and keep the batteries on the electrics charged.  Exception: Sat. a.m. in the summer; except when due to wet conditions, carts are not allowed off paths.  In theory the Sat. exception is to speed play.  However, I'm not sure if this has been tested empirically.

But, my club is an exception.  As far as I know, the other major private country clubs in the Charlotte area don't allow trolleys on their courses, although I recall that one experimented with providing uniform club-approved trolleys as rentals.  Don't know how that stands this year.  As others have suggested, I am also aware of courses where it is purely a revenue issue, in the minds of management.  It actually slows play at one course I visit sometimes because (1) carts are always required and (2) carts must be kept on the paved cart paths at all times.

[Brent Hutto]

Gosh, if thats the case why haven't Cleacgear or Sun Mountain come out with a competing model?  There are several models about in the UK.  I see more PowaKaddies than anything else I they don't strike me as of particularly high quality.  I think a basic Powakaddy runs about £300-400.  you won't find a decent one for much less.  I can't believe a well established company can't turn a profit on a $400-500 trolley in the American market.

Ciao 

It's a mystery to me, as well. There are a few off-brand ones show up in the $600-$800 price range but they don't look Powakaddy or even "Hillbilly" quality to me. I've rented the Powakaddies at Deal, Brora, maybe a couple other places. If someone would sell one for even $800 over here I'd be tempted. At $500-$600 it would own the low end of the market, totally.

[Bob_Huntley]

Archie -

This has been discussed here in the not too distant past. The good news is many private clubs are now making 3-wheel trolleys available to their members. Here in Northern California, Monterey Peninsula, the Cal Club, Lake Merced and Sonoma have all made trolleys available over the past 3-4 years.

Unfortunately, an element of snobbery regarding the use of trolleys still exists at too many private clubs in the U.S.

DT   

David,

Trolleys have been in use for decades at MPCC , they were member owned. Nowadays the Club provides the use them free of charge to both Members and guests. When you think about it, the "Trolleys" are much preferred than the "carts on" paths routine in inclement weather.

Bob

[David_Tepper]

Bob H. -

I was not aware the MPCC had a history of such an enlightened attitude towards trolley usage. My opinion of the club is even higher.

DT

[mike_beene]

I am a converted trolleyist as I have previously posted.It is my favorite way to play.We have to use the club trolleys and they charge $10 which irritates me if I let it.With the exception of summer,I think more Saturday morning rounds are with trolleys than carrying or a cart.Seberal clu s in Dallas have go e to trolleys on last few years.I will use them until it is 98 degrees.Then I ride.

[Wade Whitehead]

Why doesn't anyone in pro events ever use a pull cart?  One would think caddies would be for it.

WW

[Sam Morrow]

Why doesn't anyone in pro events ever use a pull cart?  One would think caddies would be for it.

WW

You see it at lower levels but I've never seen it in anything bigger than Futures Tour events.

[David_Tepper]

"Why doesn't anyone in pro events ever use a pull cart?  One would think caddies would be for it."

Wade W. -

I am pretty sure there were instances on the European Tour not all that long ago where the caddie, most likely the wife or girl friend of a player, used a trolley.

DT

[RJ_Daley]

Pull carts are a back wrencher, with the constant walking with one hand pulling from behind.  I'm convinced it screwed up my back over a period of many years pulling one.  Then, the three wheel pushing carts came along, and it was very much less strain on the constant wrenching back to pull one, then try to hit a shot with your back all out of allignment.  

Here in Green Bay, it is ubiquitous that people have push three wheeler Sun Mountain or Bag Boys.  And, I'd say nearly half my regular playing pals have electric caddies of various brand names from Dynamis to to Bag Boy power caddies, and PowaKaddies.  There are a few more brand names I've seen.  The best ones are about $1800-2400.  Many have the electric one and a spare push 3 wheeler if they are going to play multiple rounds a day, or they have two batteries for two rounds in a day.  We have two retired guys that have been doing repairs and mainteance on them for over 10 years.  

I can't even imagine being in a club culture with some of these restrictive rules on your choice to use a push or power caddie.  A.G. did the right thing and took his membership elsewhere, IMHO.  

[RJ_Daley]

I would guess that a few reasons that the big show tours don't have trolley carts are:  Caddie culture would have peer pressure with some caddies belittling others that would use one to assist in the hike.  Also, I think it may slow up the process if the caddie used a trolley and got diverted by not just walking up on greensites with the player, sometimes having to walk way wide to avoid bunker surrounds, and other areas not conducive to take the trolley over or through.  With a player in a bunker, raking, then tending and taking over flag duties as they are passed from caddie to caddie when it is their players turn, etc., would add an element to delayed mickey mousing around it they also had to tend to specific areas to brake the push cart.  Yes, I've seen some caddies like daughters of pros on Champion's tour and wives use them to caddie for Dad or spouse.  But, not very often...  I'll be there are some under the breath comments from the old grissly loopers.

[mike_beene]

I wish the PGA tour would have a tournament where the pros have no caddy and push their own trolley. Maybe without  caddie consultation the pace might improve

[RJ_Daley]

Mike, that is an interesting thing you say about maybe cutting down the time of a round by eliminating all the chatter and interaction between caddie and player. 

In fact I caught a glimpse at that yesterday when I went to watch the last round of the ladies futures Symetra Tour at Sweetgrass Golf Club in Escanaba, MI.   Playing in the last group was Garrett Phillips.   She is an unusual looking and demeanored player.  First of all she looks to be over 6ft tall, and maybe the thinest woman I've seen play golf.  Wie is tall and thin, but I think Phillips is thinner and just as talkl if not taller. 

At any rate, Phillips carries her own bag.  She carries a walking light weight bag and looks like there is only about 9-10 clubs in the bag.  The thing is that her other two playing competitors had caddies and were very deliberate and chatty with their caddies.  But Garrett walked with long strides thus fast, and was at her ball and always ready to play without all the deliberation when it was her turn.  She had her club, didn't fidget or second guess herself (with less clubs - less choices to fidget over) and most importantly, no chatter about the yardage because she had to work it out, did it faster than a conversation with a caddie, and stepped right up and hit it. 

So, there is no doubt in my mind that playing without a caddie would speed up the game by leaps and bounds.