GHIN and anomalies.............

[Bob_Huntley]

Rich Goodale, where are you? I need help.

Has anyone run up against the intransigence of the handicapping system as currently pursued by the USGA? In September of last year and February of this year, I played in events that were classified, for handicap purposes, as Tournaments. With the help of the pro reading greens I had 24 and 26 putts respectively and shot a couple of 77's. Last month my index was reduced from 10.8 to 7. This month, with no score in the last 25 rounds lower than an 85, my index was reduced to 6.5!

I called the NCGA and asked what would happen if my next twenty rounds were in the nineties? The reply was that I may well be playing off a three. I guess I am on double secret probation for the next twelve months. Has this happened to anyone else out there?

[Dan Grossman]

Bob -

I've never actually heard of the USGA doing it, only individual clubs.

Here is a link to the formal definition of what happened.

http://www.ncga.org/10-3.htm

[JohnV]

Bob, two things you can do:

1) Play in some more tournaments.  The more T scores you have in the last 12 months the less the reduction is.
2) File a written appeal with the Handicap Committee at your club stating why you feel that the T scores are unfairly being applied.

See Section 10 of the USGA Handicap Manual for more information.  The Manual is online at usga.org

The scores will stick around for 12 months.

[THuckaby2]

Bob - Rich hates our handicapping system - are you just giving him more fuel for the fire?  

You have unfortunately run up against the capricious "R" handicap.  You're not on double secret probation, it's just the normal corrective measure that ostensibly is supposed to prevent sandbagging.  It's VERY tough to get out of, unfortunately...

The folks at the NCGA ought to be able to explain it better than they did - call back and ask for Mr. Cowan - he can tell you what you need to know and what you can do to fix this.

TH

[THuckaby2]

The cavalry has arrived!

JV explains this perfectly, as he always does re rules or handicapping issues.

The main thing here, Bob is that your handicap chairman can have this removed if you do appeal.  It's not up to the NCHA to decide.

They still ought to have explained it better to you....

TH

[Bob_Huntley]

Tom.

The NCGA chappie explained it really well! He basically said that unless I shoot a bunch of horrible scores in TOONAMINT play I'm ph@#*d. The trouble is I am reluctant to fork out good gelt to come in last or to handicap a team event. As always, John V. knows the answers and offers sage advice.

[DMoriarty]

This month, with no score in the last 25 rounds lower than an 85, my index was reduced to 6.5!

Thanks for the information Bob.  I look forward to a round with you soon.  With 5 strokes, I might have a chance!

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I am seeing the beauty of this too. I may actually be able to handle Bob now.

[ForkaB]

Bob

You can actually post your R&A medals as away tuna-mint scores in California.  I know, I as I asked this question a couple of years ago of the USGA and they gave me a hall pass.  Do some retroactive posting and you'll be back in bandit country before you can say "Bob's my uncle."

[THuckaby2]

Hmmm... the more I think about this, the more I too am looking forward to the next WOLF game with Mr. Huntley and his shiny new 3 handicap.  Perhaps a dent in my huge previous losses might be recouped....

In any case, glad to hear the NCGA staffers did explain your f**cked situation correctly, Bob!

Seriously though, the R can be removed if you care to try and talk the handicap chair into it.

Rich's idea re the R&A medal rounds is a good one also... but who's to say those won't produce more 77's?  

TH

[Bob_Huntley]

To all of you who think that they can feast of my carcase in our next game beware. I have decided that our future games at MPCC will be played off of TREND. The mysteries of GHIN continue to amaze me, my index is down to 6.5 and yet my trend is at a very happy betting level, 15.

Come one and all.

[Mike_M]

Trend works for me Bob, as mine would be 17 right now.  Either way I'm getting a stroke or two.  Should I make the plane reservations ?  

MM

[JohnV]

Bob, I've never really noticed, but I guess trend doesn't take the T score adjustments into account.  Feel free to take all the money you can get from Tom and the others.

Rich, I'm not sure how you can post scores made in Scotland as they are not on the course rating/slope system and scores are not allowed from non-sloped courses anymore.  When you posted them, what did you put in for the course rating and slope?

[TEPaul]

JohnV:

Don't even ask! Rich Goodale is in his own little handicap world. If 10 million Americans don't agree with him Rich apparenltly couldn't care less. He believes that Americans should simply go through a massive cultural change about the way they play golf and learn to play as the cowpie avoiding Scots play.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Rich didn't just decide to leave California and the US of A. I think California and the USA expelled him from this country. I'm sure the USGA even had a hand in the expulsion.

Bob Huntley:

Are you a sandbagger? It appears the GHIN system's little known and little used "Soprano factor" has been applied to you. It's the equivalent in the handicapping world of severely broken kneecaps.

And don't you dare try to sandbag using your trend number. The trend number is a meaningless number only in the GHIN system to make it appear more sophisticated. Sandbagging by playing off your trend number will get you in trouble with the handicap police and reported to peer review from which something much more serious than "handicap broken kneecaps" will happen to you.

[ForkaB]

JohnV

Most if not all Scottish courses have been officially "sloped" strictly following USGA procedures (perhaps even using USGA people--now there's a job for you!).  These slopes are available, but not highly publicized, and not really relevant to the visiting golfer as they are done from the medal tees which the visiting golfer does not normally play.  However, someone like Bob (or me) who plays (or did) medal rounds in Scotland while living in the US can (even must) avail themselves of this fact to post scores achieved in medal (tournament) play.  I asked the USGA before doing so a couple of years ago, when I was still in the US, and they confirmed that this was the proper procedure.  This weekend when a few GCA golfers from the US will be joining me in a couple of tournaments at Dornoch, their playing handicaps will be based on Dornoch's slope--138, and they better post their scores on their return or Tom Paul will break their kneecaps, or even worse, put them on double secret probation!

Bob H

If you are regularly shooting 77 in the R&A medals, well, as Emily Litella used to say........Never Mind!

[TEPaul]

".....and they better post their scores on their return or Tom Paul will break their kneecaps, or even worse, put them on double secret probation!"

Rich:

That's not likely although I'm fairly certain you and/or CONGU (or whoever it is over there) would try to bar them from reentry into Scotland for the rest of time.

[ForkaB]

Tom

The chances of someone handicapped under USGA/GHIN "procedures" and playing to his or her handicap in Scotland is somewhere between slim and none.  We (including CONGU) are very happy to have USGA pigeons come over here and contribute to the pool from which those of us with legitimate handicaps can sup, happily.

[TEPaul]

"We (including CONGU) are very happy to have USGA pigeons come over here and contribute to the pool from which those of us with legitimate handicaps can sup, happily."

Rich:

It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if that was just about the sum and substance of the CONGU handicap system and your thinking on handicapping. It appears you have less interest in handicpping unity and far more interest in a form of handicapping arbitrage.

[ForkaB]

Tom

I just prefer a handicapping system which reflects how golfers can really play, under the Rules of Golf, not how creative they can be in recording and reporting their scores under whatever rules they feel like playing on the day.

If you really prefer the alternative, so be it.

[Bob_Huntley]

TEPaul.

No matter how I try, I cannot remember anyone accusing me of being a sandbagger. I am just a hack and when I heard chaps in this forum tell me they hit it  275-300 I thought it was just bull-dust. The trouble was, that when I played with them they could do just that. At the GCA get-togethers I am purely there for comic relief.

[THuckaby2]

Not that this should ever need confirming, but I can confirm that whilst Bob does tend to win a lot of bets, it's through cunning and fine play and most DEFINITELY not sandbagging.  

We're just having some fun with your current "troubles", Bob!  

Re GCA get togethers, whilst Bob does provide fine comic relief, it's not people laughing at his game, I can assure you of that also.

Just get him telling stories and well... golf rounds aren't meant to be that fun.  

TH

ps - yes, I love the word "whilst."  

[Bill_McBride]

Bob, just be sure you know where the closest ATM machine is with that sporty 3 handicap!