Should Pasatiempo change their logo?

[Ben Jarvis]

Apparently there is consideration to changing Pasatiempo's logo, due to the thought its being racially insensitive.

Is this the case, or does the logo simply illustrate the meaning of its name - "passing time"?

http://www.golfvacationinsider.com/golf-vacation-travel/pasatiempo-golf-course-10479

[astavrides]

.

[K. Krahenbuhl]

No.

[David_Elvins]

I am not up to date with what is culturally insensitive or not, but if they had a better logo, I would have bought a lot more stuff in their golf shop.  

[Garland Bayley]

Yes

[Ricardo Ramirez Calvo]

Just a clarification. "Pasatiempo" in Spanish means a pastime, amusement or hobby, not passing time. I don't see the relation with the logo, but I don't think it is racially offensive.

Best,

[Paul Carey]

Absolutely not.

[Richard Choi]

Why not? The point of a logo like this is to advertise the course and help sell logo'd items at the pro shop. Even if a small percentage of people find it offensive, why would you take that hit? For pride?

To me, just on artistic merit alone, they could use a new logo. I doubt I would ever purchase an item with such graphic on it.

[mike_beene]

Not sure if racist or not, ut it is close enough that I did not buy anything and would not wear the logo.That said the Indian or Native American logos are somehow uncomfortable to me.

[Bill Vogeney]

I think the logo is perfect. I think  it is not intended to be insensitive. It is a Spanish term. The logo is Hispanic oriented. It makes sense.

Should Seminole change their logo? How about Moundbuilders in Newark Ohio. It is built on old Indian war grounds. Should it be closed and restored to the natural state? Or how about Sharp Park in San Fran, where environmentalists are trying to protect some fresh water frog, and want to close this old MacKenzie gem and restore it to the natural salt marsh...which would actually change the habitats and kill off the fresh water frog.

There are extremists everywhere.

[Brent Carlson]

I cannot see the skin of any person in that logo.  How do we know what ethnicity they are?  There are siestas in Spain - the country with the original hispanic influence in California.

I like the laid back logo.  It fits it very well with the club.

[Sam Morrow]

How is it offensive? A guy in a sombrero napping? Anyone can wear a sombrero and what's wrong with napping? Everybody sleeps. This is really reaching, people who reach so hard to find something insensitive in our world are the problem. I think this is one of the best logos in golf and never considered it offensive.

[DMoriarty]

Any golf course logo with a tree is offensive.

[Richard Choi]

Why are you guys so tied to this logo? For what reason? Just to hanging on to something just because somebody does not want it is a pretty dumb reason to keep it. What are you 12?

Notice I have not said anything about being offensive. If a restaurant prints its menu on a red paper and if even a few customers complain that the menu is hard to read, you change it to something else even if the owner is fond of color red.

This is just marketing 101.

[Connor Dougherty]

I'm surprised at the thoughts of those on this board on the logo, it's one of my favorite in all of golf!

I think it's foolish to have us argue whether it offends people, as we are not the group being offended.

The issue of racially insensitive names and logos has been in the news a lot recently, with the best example probably being the controversy around the Washington Redskins. I am not fit to argue a side, but what I will say is that when Native Americans are polled on the issue, they have a strong majority say that they do not care about the name (and a few who want them to keep it). And IMO, we should listen to their opinion since they are the group most affected by the decision.

Why are you guys so tied to this logo? For what reason? Just to hanging on to something just because somebody does not want it is a pretty dumb reason to keep it. What are you 12?

Notice I have not said anything about being offensive. If a restaurant prints its menu on a red paper and if even a few customers complain that the menu is hard to read, you change it to something else even if the owner is fond of color red.

This is just marketing 101.

Richard, the problem is not everyone is going to be pleased and from a marketing standpoint it could hurt them. I love that pasa logo and have two shirts and am planning on getting a visor if they get the right one in from there. I wouldn't be surprised if their new logo resulted in weaker sales. Just ask the Washington Redskins, whose brand strength is 3rd in the NFL (behind the Cowboys and Pats) according to Forbes and valued at $131 million.

[Richard Choi]

Connor, I am sure you are fond of the logo, but I really doubt that changing the logo to something more tasteful will result in reduced sale. Speaking as an amateur designer, there is really nothing to speak of in the current design. It looks like a cheap design from 60's or 70's. Creating an tasteful upscale logo will increase sale of merchandise. I would be shocked if it didn't.

[Connor Dougherty]

Connor, I am sure you are fond of the logo, but I really doubt that changing the logo to something more tasteful will result in reduced sale. Speaking as an amateur designer, there is really nothing to speak of in the current design. It looks like a cheap design from 60's or 70's. Creating an tasteful upscale logo will increase sale of merchandise. I would be shocked if it didn't.

Richard,
I'm not involved in design by any means, but as someone who has taken classes on sports marketing, there are a lot of uncertainties. There is the chance that creating a more "tasteful" logo will lead to something more generic, which less people will buy because there are plenty of generic logos.

None of us have Pasa's sales numbers, but if they are good, wouldn't that be the sign of successful marketing and a quality design? Sometimes less is more, and for that reason I find the simplicity of the logo awesome.

Clearly you don't think it looks good. Plenty of people don't like the white belt I and so many other youngsters wear. As my father always says, "In matters of taste, there is no dispute." I think I'll leave it at that for now

[Scott Warren]

Rich,

That's all fine if a logo is considered to be something primarily to drive merch sales. I'm not sure many golf clubs see their logo that way.

I love the Pasa logo and think it's a long bow to claim it's racist, but if they have to change it, maybe to the thing "passatiempo" is slang for in Italian!

[Sean_A]

Rich,

That's all fine if a logo is considered to be something primarily to drive merch sales. I'm not sure many golf clubs see their logo that way.

I love the Pasa logo and think it's a long bow to claim it's racist, but if they have to change it, maybe to the thing "passatiempo" is slang for in Italian!

Ever since learning of this meaning a few years ago I have gone completely off the name of the club - tee hee.  I never liked the logo, reminds of Doritos and its just as cheesy.  I can see the negative connotations toward the idea of lazy Mexicans (manana?) because there is no evidence this guy is taking a break from work - its an assumption just as its an assumption that Mexicans are lazy.  I don't particularly think the logo is racist, but IF there is grief about it from the right circles, I can see changing it. 

Ciao 

[Mark Pearce]

I think the logo is perfect. I think  it is not intended to be insensitive.

By definition, most insensitive acts are not intended to be so.  As to those who claim that the person under the somrero could be any race, that's what I call really stretching.  I don't mind the logo and bought a towel.  I don't consider it racist but let's not pretend that we don't all recognise that the assumption the vast majority will make is that the person under the sombrero is Mexican.

[Connor Dougherty]

I think the logo is perfect. I think  it is not intended to be insensitive.

By definition, most insensitive acts are not intended to be so.  As to those who claim that the person under the somrero could be any race, that's what I call really stretching.  I don't mind the logo and bought a towel.  I don't consider it racist but let's not pretend that we don't all recognise that the assumption the vast majority will make is that the person under the sombrero is Mexican.

I actually originally thought it was a little kid at first haha.

[Martin Toal]

I am not a Mexican so don't take any personal offence, but I would if the picture was of a drunk Irishman. I expect Americans would also take umbrage if a club in Baja had a logo of a loud and boorish American.

This sort of cliched and stereotyped imagery has become so dated as to be no longer appropriate.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Just a clarification. "Pasatiempo" in Spanish means a pastime, amusement or hobby, not passing time. I don't see the relation with the logo, but I don't think it is racially offensive.

Best,

Wait, that's really what the phrase means? Oh man, that makes the club and all of us look plain stupid.

[Ronald Montesano]

Pasar is a verb in Spanish...it means to pass by or to spend (the latter, when paired with one word)
Tiempo is a noun and means time or weather.

Un pasatiempo, as RRC indicated, means hobby, pastime, amusement.

Paso por tu casa a las ocho means I'll pass by/stop by your house at eight.
El hombre pasa tiempo bajo el arbol means The man passes/spends time beneath the tree.

Quiz tomorrow...be kind to your fellow students.

[Mark Bourgeois]

So they blew it when they split it into two words? That's like Kennedy proclaiming himself to be a jelly donut. Kinda embarrassing for a place with a strong Spanish heritage.