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Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Could a golf course be built using Kickstarter?
« on: June 21, 2013, 05:27:57 PM »
Reading an article today in the Wall Street Journal about different projects had me thinking about starting a kickstarter project to fund a golf course.

Depending on the different levels of contribution, the project could offer a single green fee up to a lifetime membership.

With the promise of building a world class golf course with a big name architect, could such a project work?  Seems like the golf course community could be fairly large to fund a project.  Any thoughts?

Mark Bourgeois

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Could a golf course be built using Kickstarter?
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2013, 05:47:14 PM »
No. Too much money.
Charlotte. Daniel. Olivia. Josephine. Ana. Dylan. Madeleine. Catherine. Chase. Jesse. James. Grace. Emilie. Jack. Noah. Caroline. Jessica. Benjamin. Avielle. Allison.

C. Squier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Could a golf course be built using Kickstarter?
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2013, 06:06:42 PM »
I'd think potential budget overruns would be a tremendous risk.  I like the thought though, believe you may be on to something.

Blake Conant

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Could a golf course be built using Kickstarter?
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2013, 06:22:17 PM »
No. Too much money.

A watch design received $10.25M in funding.  A film received $5.7M.  A game received $8.7M.  A musician received $1.25M.  And an affordable 3D printer received $2.9M. 

Mark Bourgeois

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Could a golf course be built using Kickstarter?
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2013, 06:33:31 PM »
Yes. Money could be raised in 15 minutes.
Charlotte. Daniel. Olivia. Josephine. Ana. Dylan. Madeleine. Catherine. Chase. Jesse. James. Grace. Emilie. Jack. Noah. Caroline. Jessica. Benjamin. Avielle. Allison.

David Bartman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Could a golf course be built using Kickstarter?
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2013, 06:35:43 PM »
Absolutely
Still need to play Pine Valley!!

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Could a golf course be built using Kickstarter?
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2013, 07:32:32 PM »
The problem would be having 100 golf courses competing with one another to try and get funding.

But, if anyone wants to buy into building the Bandon Dunes of Asia, in the Philippines, you are welcome to e-mail me.  :)  Right now I'm trying to find one or two big backers, but if that fails, I might go the other route.

Peter Pallotta

Re: Could a golf course be built using Kickstarter?
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2013, 07:57:14 PM »
The problem would be having 100 golf courses competing with one another to try and get funding.

But, if anyone wants to buy into building the Bandon Dunes of Asia, in the Philippines, you are welcome to e-mail me.  :)  Right now I'm trying to find one or two big backers, but if that fails, I might go the other route.

Or combine the two, Tom - ONE big backer for one half, Kickstarter financing (e.g. from overseas memberships to routing sketches to baseball caps) for the other half.

Peter

« Last Edit: June 21, 2013, 08:04:03 PM by PPallotta »

Mike Sweeney

Re: Could a golf course be built using Kickstarter?
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2013, 10:04:42 PM »
If Mike Young puts up Long Shadow, I have a bid.

Mike will make me money....

Philip Caccamise

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Could a golf course be built using Kickstarter?
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2013, 10:45:03 PM »
With the right business plan, without a doubt, YES.

Weren't the earliest private clubs really done with a "kickstarter" method? A group of guys would get together and pool their money to be the founding members, and off they went.

Anthony Butler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Could a golf course be built using Kickstarter?
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2013, 10:49:02 AM »
With the right business plan, without a doubt, YES.

Weren't the earliest private clubs really done with a "kickstarter" method? A group of guys would get together and pool their money to be the founding members, and off they went.

On the surface, Kickstarter is about people investing.. not joining something as a member. Although I kind of wonder what type of return you're expecting from an independent film you just invested $100 in. It would have to be measured in psychic rewards and not EPS I would think.

A Kickstarter-funded golf course designed by a prominent architect sounds more like community ownership of the Green Bay Packers. I'm fairly sure there's not much ROI in having a share of either enterprise.. but maybe Mike McCarthy answers 'concerned investor' emails on Monday morning after Aaron Rodgers throws a couple of picks to lose to the Vikings..

Of course, if you want Tom Doak to answer your emails about his next course in the Phillipines, you just have to join GCA. And perhaps throw a couple dollars in Ran's direction. :)
« Last Edit: June 22, 2013, 12:01:50 PM by Anthony Butler »
Next!

Charlie Gallagher

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Could a golf course be built using Kickstarter?
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2013, 11:16:22 AM »
Tom,
    The closest I have been to the Phillipines is my old man fighting at Leyte Gulf. He was a "jeep" carrier pilot on the "Kitkun Bay".
Is there sand for golf there?

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Could a golf course be built using Kickstarter?
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2013, 11:34:12 PM »
On the surface, Kickstarter is about people investing.. not joining something as a member. Although I kind of wonder what type of return you're expecting from an independent film you just invested $100 in. It would have to be measured in psychic rewards and not EPS I would think.

Not sure I agree with the investing aspect, it's mainly a pay it forward green fee and the opportunity to play a great future golf course.   For $25 you would have the opportunity to play the golf course with a $100 future green fee.  For $75 the green fee is included.   $250 for a foursome.    $5,000 might buy a 1 year membership.  $50,000 for a lifetime membership?

Anthony Butler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Could a golf course be built using Kickstarter?
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2013, 08:44:10 AM »
On the surface, Kickstarter is about people investing.. not joining something as a member. Although I kind of wonder what type of return you're expecting from an independent film you just invested $100 in. It would have to be measured in psychic rewards and not EPS I would think.

Not sure I agree with the investing aspect, it's mainly a pay it forward green fee and the opportunity to play a great future golf course.   For $25 you would have the opportunity to play the golf course with a $100 future green fee.  For $75 the green fee is included.   $250 for a foursome.    $5,000 might buy a 1 year membership.  $50,000 for a lifetime membership?

Joel, I understand your model, but that's not the model of most things on Kickstarter... ie. funding a membership group. if you read anything about Kickstarter's founders, you'll see that a golf course construction/membership deal is the kind of thing they'd probably yank off the site anyway. Let's just say, they don't strike anyone as the country-club types.
Next!

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Could a golf course be built using Kickstarter?
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2013, 10:44:52 AM »
I suppose I could spend time researching my question, but I'm not so interested I want to waste much time on it.   But if anyone knows off the top of their head, I am mildly curious how such proposals and propositions don't run afoul of securities laws. 

I once organized a year long project to solicit an intra-state share offering to fund a golf course semi-private club and homesite development.  We had to submit a prospectus document to our office of securities commission.  It took months to receive approval with much scruitiny to every detail of the wording in the prospectus.

If some sort of ownership or rights are involved in the return for money invested, aren't there investment regulations and laws that oversee this "Kickstarter" process? Even the Green Bay Packers non-voting rights stock offering had to have approval to solicit subscriptions, to the best of my knowledge.   I know plenty of folk here in Green Bay that have their framed share certificates hanging in frames in their dens and rec-rooms.  They get to go to a 'shareholder' outdoor meeting at the stadium every July and cheer their approval of anything the 'real board' does, no matter what the actual results or performance of the franchise...  sort of like a compensation committee in the corporate world.   ::) :-[

 How do the Kickstarter money raising schemes get around that oversight?

No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0

John_Conley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Could a golf course be built using Kickstarter?
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2013, 11:30:18 PM »
The problem I see with funding a course this way is that the ongoing revenue still needs to cover the operating costs.  I remember about a decade ago a very good golf course was up for auction and it was hard to comprehend how little it sold for.  The Links at Red Mike Ranch in North Dakota turned out to be worth less than many houses.

I think buyers were scared off by the projected annual losses after purchase.

Mike Sweeney

Re: Could a golf course be built using Kickstarter?
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2013, 08:23:18 AM »
[

 How do the Kickstarter money raising schemes get around that oversight?



They don't, see the parameters:

http://www.kickstarter.com/help/guidelines

Kickstarter and everyone else is waiting for the regulatory agencies to implement The JOBS Act which is over a year old now:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumpstart_Our_Business_Startups_Act

It is arguably the one thing that the President and Congress came together on, and now the bureaucracy can't get it to practical use for American citizens.  :P :'( ???

I am a contributor (of many) to a film project by an Armenian that plays golf with passion, but he can't pay me back.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/93600237/writers-cramp-feature-film

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Could a golf course be built using Kickstarter?
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2013, 11:01:00 AM »
It's been kind of tried on here a few times. My feeling is, if you can't convince enough people on here - a bunch of hard core committed golf course fanatics who believe strongly in Tom D - to buy into something as amazing as Barnbougle, I doubt you could pull it off on Kickstarter. But maybe if Barnbougle were not on the other side of the world from most of the target purchasers, it would've worked in its original model. I think you'd need something pretty natural, ala Wild Horse, to pull it off, and even then, I'd doubt it would happen.

But hey, why as why? Why not give it a go? We sent Andy Gray to Bandon, didn't we! :)
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

BCowan

Re: Could a golf course be built using Kickstarter?
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2015, 11:37:44 PM »
On the surface, Kickstarter is about people investing.. not joining something as a member. Although I kind of wonder what type of return you're expecting from an independent film you just invested $100 in. It would have to be measured in psychic rewards and not EPS I would think.

Not sure I agree with the investing aspect, it's mainly a pay it forward green fee and the opportunity to play a great future golf course.   For $25 you would have the opportunity to play the golf course with a $100 future green fee.  For $75 the green fee is included.   $250 for a foursome.    $5,000 might buy a 1 year membership.  $50,000 for a lifetime membership?

Joel,

    This would be a great Idea and one that has been brought up before on GCA.  Have you looked further into this?

David Ober

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Could a golf course be built using Kickstarter?
« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2015, 10:30:02 PM »
The short answer: Absoflippinlutely.

George Freeman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Could a golf course be built using Kickstarter?
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2015, 09:57:19 AM »
The perfect project to kickstart - El Bouqeron:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,38874.0.html

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,57972.0.html

We even discussed a GCA initial funding in the first thread (page 5).
Mayhugh is my hero!!

"I love creating great golf courses.  I love shaping earth...it's a canvas." - Donald J. Trump

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Could a golf course be built using Kickstarter?
« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2015, 06:25:17 PM »
The perfect project to kickstart - El Bouqeron:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,38874.0.html

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,57972.0.html

We even discussed a GCA initial funding in the first thread (page 5).

I'm always hoping to hear good news about El Boqueron.  Why?   I love Mackenzie courses and I love Austin.  Hurry up!