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Jud_T

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Re: Next up: Just how good is the Honourable Company?
« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2013, 03:16:31 PM »
The question is not how good it is, but rather how long will the rough be and how wide will the fairways be for the Open.  In particular, given the R&A's recent capitulation to protecting Par at the Old Course, will the Championship Committee feel competitive with the setup and results at Merion...
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Phil McDade

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Re: Next up: Just how good is the Honourable Company?
« Reply #26 on: June 19, 2013, 03:20:04 PM »
The question is not how good it is, but rather how long will the rough be and how wide will the fairways be for the Open.  In particular, given the R&A's recent capitulation to protecting Par at the Old Course, will the Championship Committee feel competitive with the setup and results at Merion...

Jud:

The R&A has been much less concerned with "protecting" par at the Open Championship than the USGA. Winning scores in the past five years have ranged from +3 to -16.

Carl Nichols

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Re: Next up: Just how good is the Honourable Company?
« Reply #27 on: June 19, 2013, 03:28:40 PM »
Is Portmarnock the Muirfield of Ireland?  I've played the former but not the latter; Portmarnock was, to me, a really terrific course on a relatively bland site.  Sounds like Muirfield is similar, even though Muirfield is held in higher regard.

Jud_T

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Re: Next up: Just how good is the Honourable Company?
« Reply #28 on: June 19, 2013, 03:49:09 PM »
TomD,

The Sean Arble Devil's Advocate Question:  Where would you rather play a round tomorrow?  Muirfield (Ten) or North Berwick (Eight)?
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Next up: Just how good is the Honourable Company?
« Reply #29 on: June 20, 2013, 03:37:51 AM »
Is Portmarnock the Muirfield of Ireland?  I've played the former but not the latter; Portmarnock was, to me, a really terrific course on a relatively bland site.  Sounds like Muirfield is similar, even though Muirfield is held in higher regard.

I think Tom made that comparison in his Confidential Guide and I think he got the differences more or less right

It is an immediately obvious one I agree. They are the most traditional clubs in their respective countries, they are both on relatively flat land, they are both routed majestically (in fact the original World Atlas held the two of them up as the first good examples of circular / loop routing). Muirfield has better bunkering and as a result maybe a bigger variety in strategic holes. Portmarnock has a little more going on with the topography, certainly through the green anyway. Muirfield has longer views out across the bay. Portmarnock actually interacts with the coastline on three or four holes.

I still haven’t seen Hoylake but I equate that club as the English equivalent from what I’ve read / heard / watched…

Jon Wiggett

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Re: Next up: Just how good is the Honourable Company?
« Reply #30 on: June 20, 2013, 05:00:02 AM »
TomD,

The Sean Arble Devil's Advocate Question:  Where would you rather play a round tomorrow?  Muirfield (Ten) or North Berwick (Eight)?

Jud,

if it was being paid for then Muirfield hands down but if I was paying then NB as it is much better value for money.

Jon

Mark Pearce

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Re: Next up: Just how good is the Honourable Company?
« Reply #31 on: June 20, 2013, 05:18:56 AM »
Jud,

Like Jon I'm not Tom D but also like Jon, Muirfield without a second's thought.  NBWL is a tremendous course and has some great holes.  Muirfield has 18 great holes.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Tony_Muldoon

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Re: Next up: Just how good is the Honourable Company?
« Reply #32 on: June 20, 2013, 07:43:54 AM »


  Another incident.  The four of us were assigned to two-ball tee times, one group following the other.  Around hole 16, with only one other two-ball group on the course as far as we could tell (remember the pouring rain), we decided to combine our two-balls into a four-ball group for the finish.  Seemingly from out of nowhere a voice boomed - "No you won't.  You start as two-balls, you finish as two-balls."  O.K., they make the rules and we are privileged guests . . . but give me a break.  

Amazeballs.

Why travel if you aren't prepared to try the local customs?


What club rules would you want to be given a break on at Augusta National or Cypress Point?
Let's make GCA grate again!

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Next up: Just how good is the Honourable Company?
« Reply #33 on: June 20, 2013, 07:54:18 AM »


  Another incident.  The four of us were assigned to two-ball tee times, one group following the other.  Around hole 16, with only one other two-ball group on the course as far as we could tell (remember the pouring rain), we decided to combine our two-balls into a four-ball group for the finish.  Seemingly from out of nowhere a voice boomed - "No you won't.  You start as two-balls, you finish as two-balls."  O.K., they make the rules and we are privileged guests . . . but give me a break.  

Amazeballs.

Why travel if you aren't prepared to try the local customs?


What club rules would you want to be given a break on at Augusta National or Cypress Point?

Have to say I'm a big fan of two-ball clubs....

The more I play in fourballs, the more I find it frustrating how long it takes and how long you spend looking for one of the other three's ball...

Two-balls and foursomes... Don't need anything else...

Mark Bourgeois

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Re: Next up: Just how good is the Honourable Company?
« Reply #34 on: June 20, 2013, 08:02:47 AM »

The more I play in fourballs, the more I find it frustrating how long it takes and how long you spend looking for one of the other three's ball...


Given the pictures of the setup for Muirfield this year I'm not sure I'd even want to play foursomes. I know pictures can artificially narrow things but the fairway widths look absolutely terrible. I'd call it an affront to links golf but since the Open Championship field consists almost entirely of floggers with seemingly no golfers to be found, I won't.
Charlotte. Daniel. Olivia. Josephine. Ana. Dylan. Madeleine. Catherine. Chase. Jesse. James. Grace. Emilie. Jack. Noah. Caroline. Jessica. Benjamin. Avielle. Allison.

Mark Pearce

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Re: Next up: Just how good is the Honourable Company?
« Reply #35 on: June 20, 2013, 10:02:27 AM »
Mark,

I played there a couple of weeks ago.  The fairway widths really aren't that narrow.  I didn't lose a ball off the tee and didn't drive it that well.  9 is very narrow at the waist but that's the hole.  Easy lay up makes it a three shotter, take on the narrow waist and get home easily in two.  I don't think the fairways are any narroweer than other championship links I have played and they certainly didn't feel narrow to me.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

David Whitmer

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Re: Next up: Just how good is the Honourable Company?
« Reply #36 on: June 20, 2013, 10:31:26 AM »
Mark,

I played there a couple of weeks ago.  The fairway widths really aren't that narrow.  I didn't lose a ball off the tee and didn't drive it that well.  9 is very narrow at the waist but that's the hole.  Easy lay up makes it a three shotter, take on the narrow waist and get home easily in two.  I don't think the fairways are any narroweer than other championship links I have played and they certainly didn't feel narrow to me.

I agree. I'm not sure how my photos make the fairways look, but not once did I feel the fairways were lacking for sufficient width. And the rough right off the fairways was not bad, either. Now stray real far off the fairways, and you're in trouble...

Carl Johnson

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Re: Next up: Just how good is the Honourable Company?
« Reply #37 on: June 20, 2013, 01:24:17 PM »


  Another incident.  The four of us were assigned to two-ball tee times, one group following the other.  Around hole 16, with only one other two-ball group on the course as far as we could tell (remember the pouring rain), we decided to combine our two-balls into a four-ball group for the finish.  Seemingly from out of nowhere a voice boomed - "No you won't.  You start as two-balls, you finish as two-balls."  O.K., they make the rules and we are privileged guests . . . but give me a break.  

Amazeballs.

Why travel if you aren't prepared to try the local customs?


What club rules would you want to be given a break on at Augusta National or Cypress Point?

Fully prepared to try local customs.  That's one thing I do like about travel.  When "warned" we obeyed without any comment.  Maybe instead of "give me a break," I should have said "somewhat surprised."  Still, it seems to me that rules such as the "two-ball" rule are for a purpose - here a good one under normal conditions.  Under the circumstances (see above), I would have thought the lookout could have looked the other way.  On the other hand, you might fairly say that it is a matter of principal, and clubs should never be expected to make any exceptions to their rules under any circumstances, common sense be damned.  And I would agree that that is their right and privilege.

Regarding the rules I like to have a break on at Augusta National or Cypress Point, I cannot say.  I don't know what their rules are and at this point have no interest in looking them up (assuming that I could).

There is another custom/rule I found a little strange at a venerable Scottish club, Royal Troon.  When we visited Troon several years ago, our driver for day trips was a retired financial advisor and a member of Royal Troon.  In fact, he told us he had been the youngest member every admitted to Royal Troon.  Our last rounds in Scotland that trip were at Royal Troon (one on each course).  After the last round, we, as "visitors," could go into the bar for a drink.  By that point we'd become quite friendly with our driver/RT member, and asked him to come in with us for a drink.  He said although he personally thought it was a little silly, RT members were not allowed to socialize in the bar with "visitors."  If we had been playing as his "guests," that would have been another matter. (In fact, he had earlier offered a guest invitation for us to play with him, but our schedule was already full for the day he proposed.)  So, all of us American golfers and our RT member/driver retired to the the bar at our Troon hotel for good-by drinks.

You may ask why a retired financial advisor, and a member of Royal Troon to boot, would be driving American golfers around on their golf holidays.  He volunteered (that is, we had not asked or even hinted the question) for us that he did this simply because he enjoyed meeting and getting to know visiting golfers.  Indeed, we enjoyed meeting and getting to know him, too.

« Last Edit: June 20, 2013, 01:30:31 PM by Carl Johnson »

Niall C

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Re: Next up: Just how good is the Honourable Company?
« Reply #38 on: June 20, 2013, 01:54:33 PM »

There are no funky walls, drives over hotels, blind shots, lighthouses etc... but unlike a Troon it does have character/some changes in elevation.


Greg

I don't mean to be cheeky but I suspect that you're getting Troon mixed up with another course. I suppose character is in the eye of the beholder but elevational change is more factual and I'd wager that Troon possibly has more elevational change than any other Open venue in Scotland. I suspect the only course that could beat it would be Turnberry.

Niall

Gary Slatter

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Re: Next up: Just how good is the Honourable Company?
« Reply #39 on: June 20, 2013, 10:27:32 PM »
for a day's experience, 3 hrs golf, 3 hours lunch then another 3 hours golf, the best golfing experience so far!!
 For me Muirfield is the fairest championship venue, I hope it's dry and firm.
They are entitled to make the rules for their club, thankfully.    It's the only club that I know that allows rugby players and turns down footies.

good pictures now on the Open website.
Gary Slatter
gary.slatter@raffles.com

Brent Carlson

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Re: Next up: Just how good is the Honourable Company?
« Reply #40 on: June 21, 2013, 01:25:47 AM »
Reading through theopen.com it's surprising how many changes have been made to the course.  I can understand adding length, but reading the hole by hole descriptions, many bunkers have been added or moved, even fairways have been "realigned".  IMO the course did not need these changes to add more difficulty, so it's interesting that they've been done.  It's not only the USGA that's tinkering with the venues.

Greg Taylor

Re: Next up: Just how good is the Honourable Company?
« Reply #41 on: June 21, 2013, 07:30:00 AM »

There are no funky walls, drives over hotels, blind shots, lighthouses etc... but unlike a Troon it does have character/some changes in elevation.


Greg

I don't mean to be cheeky but I suspect that you're getting Troon mixed up with another course. I suppose character is in the eye of the beholder but elevational change is more factual and I'd wager that Troon possibly has more elevational change than any other Open venue in Scotland. I suspect the only course that could beat it would be Turnberry.

Niall

I only pulled Troon out of the bag as it gets a bad rap on here... I actually love the back side of the course.. in fact the holes starting with the straight away par 5 thru to 11th I think are great.

And yes Troon has elevation changes, but the point I'm trying to make is what Muirfield lacks in some people's eyes is actually it's strengths in my eyes... horses for courses, so speak.