US Open sites--west of the Mississippi

[Mac Plumart]

Food for thought...

Colorado Golf Club;
Pebble Beach (of course);
Torrey Pines;
Chambers Bay;
Cherry Hills;
Champions;
Red Ledges 

[Ben Sims]

Food for thought...

Colorado Golf Club; Pros would rip it up.
Pebble Beach (of course);  No brainer here
Torrey Pines; I think it makes a better site than many
Chambers Bay; It'll be a great Open in a great area, but with interesting logistics.  It's a wild card. But I'm excited about it.
Cherry Hills; I think it's had it's day, but I could be wrong. 
Champions; Ballsy choice.  A good one too.
Red Ledges  When did they legalize the sticky icky in Georgia?

[Eric Smith]

Food for thought...

Colorado Golf Club; Pros would rip it up.
Pebble Beach (of course);  No brainer here
Torrey Pines; I think it makes a better site than many
Chambers Bay; It'll be a great Open in a great area, but with interesting logistics.  It's a wild card. But I'm excited about it.
Cherry Hills; I think it's had it's day, but I could be wrong. 
Champions; Ballsy choice.  A good one too.
Red Ledges  When did they legalize the sticky icky in Georgia?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=me2VnyCnmHo

[Ben Sims]

Food for thought...

Colorado Golf Club; Pros would rip it up.
Pebble Beach (of course);  No brainer here
Torrey Pines; I think it makes a better site than many
Chambers Bay; It'll be a great Open in a great area, but with interesting logistics.  It's a wild card. But I'm excited about it.
Cherry Hills; I think it's had it's day, but I could be wrong. 
Champions; Ballsy choice.  A good one too.
Red Ledges  When did they legalize the sticky icky in Georgia?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=me2VnyCnmHo

The first thing I think of when I see the name "Mac Plumart" is Rick James.  Cocaine's a helluva drug.

[Jim Nugent]

June in St. Louis is often beautiful, with modest rain and little extreme heat.  No world-class courses to hold the Open on, though.  Most likely is Bellerive, which when I saw/played it decades ago was a typical RTJ course. 

[William_G]

There are a couple of great options for managing traffic at CB. First is extending the Sounders commuter train. If you coordinate withe the freight carriers, that could solve the need for 20% to 30% of the expected crowd. The second option is a ferry service between Seattle and CB. A commuter ferries around here carry several thousand each. So that could be an option.

The other item that will help is docking a cruise ship to serve as the floating hotel for players and guests. That would relieve a great deal of traffic in and out of the course.

With its sand base and drainage to the sound, the fitness of the course will not be a problem. With its length and firmness, USGA can practically name their desired winning score.

The only thing that concerns me is the uniformity of greens.

I have heard that the players and USGA officials will be staying in cruise ships and ferry in due to the lack of enough "quality" hotel rooms immediately adjacent to the course.  

What is Tacoma 15 miles away from the course?  And only 1 4 star hotel, PGA players are not fond of that.  How many folks will leave their homes to rent them to players and their entourages for the week?  

I hope it has improved since the US AM, from a play-ability standpoint that wasn't very good,  to say the least.  

David

is that you barfing on GCA?

[William_G]

I played plenty, thank you. The weather sucked and the conditions sucked. It's precisely why I pulled the ejection lever. The weather sucks many years well into June and if you live there you know that. Three months a year it's spectacular. The rest...you can have it.

nice

[Adam Lawrence]

Washington and Oregon are pretty iffy too in June. Many years summer in Seattle starts right around the time the fireworks are over on July 4th. The USGA is taking a big gamble on the weather with Chambers Bay. Weather-wise, it would make an outstanding place to hold the PGA as the weather is almost always flawless in August.

For the U.S. Open, you need a world-class golf course near a big city with a ton of room for spectators, corporate tents, and so forth. On the west coast, that's pretty much limited to Olympic, Pebble Beach, and Torrey Pines. Pebble Beach is a bit of an exception in terms of its remoteness but, well, it's Pebble Beach.

I'm not sure what they're thinking with Erin Hills. As a business decision, that's just bizarre. It's a long way from anything.

Kevin,

The weather on the WC is a lot less iffy and dramatic than the weather in the NE in June. So from a planning standpoint the worst case scenarios are far less likely to happen. So, the business decision there is easy.

It is very interesting how numerous courses around Philly have uncontrolled flooding from meandering creeks year in and year out. These floods routinely flood over greens and bunkers...it's very surprising for me to have that as a "normal" out there in the NE.

LA North could be a great US Open site

Old Macdonald would be a great US Open site and would be under 7000 yards. But there is no population there nor in Oregon to speak of.

LACC has ZERO interest in having a US OPEN, I repeat ZERO ... Walker and Ryder Cups only.  Recognition without the headache is what their leading members are interested in. 

The Ryder Cup is probably a bigger headache for the host course than any other event in golf...

[Patrick_Mucci]

There are solid reasons the Open isn't held on the west coast.

There's a paucity of quality golf courses that possess the ability to host an event that's grown exponentially over the years.

Riviera already hosts an annual PGA Tour event.
Ditto Pebble Beach, but they've done it before.

Pumpkin Ridge ...... You must be kidding.

Bandon ?   Might as well be Alaska.

Cherry Hills ?  No longer long enough

Champions ?   No, it never rains in Houston.

Sahalee ?  How was that received the last time ?

From a logistical perspective alone, few courses can accommodate an event of this magnitude.

[Matthew Petersen]

Colorado's been dry as a bone this summer.... too dry even. Hasn't rained here for more than a week and isn't supposed to again anytime soon.

But unfortunately you have that wonderful thing called altitude making all the courses a pitch n' putt.

The Colorado storm issue isn't moisture so much as the constant threat of lightning even on days when there's no rain. This plagued The International throughout its existence, and it would be a huge concern for a major. USGA, NBC, and ESPN don't want their viewers seeing a nice, dry day but no golf being played due to the threat of lightning. (Which is a very real threat, the front range gets more lightning than pretty much anywhere else in the western US, just very often without rain.)

[Richard Choi]

I don't buy the lack of quality venue excuse at all. With the way USGA sets up the course, any course with required length can host US Open. Torrey proved that point.

Pros are going to post really low scores at Merion, even though everyone agrees about its architectural pedigree. There are many, many courses around the country that has the logistics and the venue to pull off a successful open without resorting to remote courses like Bandon.

[Garland Bayley]

There are solid reasons the Open isn't held on the west coast.

There's a paucity of quality golf courses that possess the ability to host an event that's grown exponentially over the years.

...

Patrick,

There is a paucity of quality golf courses that posses the ability to host the event all across the country.
1. The ball travels too far. They need 8500 yards to do the job correctly without extreme measures like moving bunkers before, and moving them back afterwards.
2. The size of the event requires significantly more real estate than it did before. You dis'd Pumpkin Ridge, but it does have the real estate to do it. If they can come up with a composite course that is long enough, maybe it will happen.

[Garland Bayley]

How would the course Bill Coore is working on in the Dallas area suit a US Open?

[David Bartman]

Jim:

That may be a bit harsh (although I have to say, if LACC is interested in the Ryder Cup but not the headaches of a US Open, they've got another thing coming; having experienced the Ryder Cup at Medinah -- it's a total zoo and a complete loss of the club for a fairly long time, arguably as long as the Open. A complete blast of a zoo, but the Ryder Cup may be a bigger headache than any US Open these days.)

I know several clubs -- Milwaukee CC comes to mind -- that maintain very strong relations with the USGA, and occasionally like to host smaller championships (MCC hosted the US Mid-Am in 2008), but for a variety of reasons, their membership may not view their course or club as appropriate to host the US Open. The USGA desperately wanted this year's Open at The Country Club in Brookline, to honor Ouimet's historic victory there 100 years ago. But you can't force the thing down the throat of a club.

Sure, it was a bit harsh... But somebody has to host the US Open. I have no idea of what it is like to work with the USGA, but I'm guessing it can't be easy. Neither would be working with the Ryder Cup folks. But, and I guess this is why I started this thread, the West Coast is BY FAR the best place to hold the tournament. LA as a city would be a great place with predicable weather, great courses etc. but it would also be good for the city as well, helping the local economy in a variety of ways.  LA CC would be a great venue and yes, their members would be inconvenienced for at least a couple of months, but really, just suck it up for a bit fellas. Olympic won't hold it every time their rotation comes up, but they will hold it, deal with it, be proud and move on.  And really, Brookline, what's up with that.  What an honor. Big miss on that. 

I think the major difference between Ryder Cup and US Open is one is run by the USGA and the other is PGA of America.  The feeling I get from two of LACC's influential members is that the later organization is much much much easier to deal with in terms of planning, needs and set up.  The concerns of the membership have to do with having a range after the event, a US OPEN would need to resod the hitting area after the tournament was finished while a Ryder cup would not.  The number of Sponsor Tents would be able to be accommodated on the 4 holes north of Wilshire for Ryder Cup and not so for US Open.  As well as, how long the course would be damaged after a US Open as opposed to a Ryder Cup.   As far as a US Open helping the economy of LA, that is like adding a gallon of water to an ocean, it really wont have much effect.  Now if we address public pension obligations we might be able to help, but I digress. 

It's hard enough to get a private club to do a golf course improvement project that will enhance its golf course for years to come, let alone give away the course and endure damage to it for months on end.  I certainly understand your point of view, but I also understand that of the membership as well. 

[David Bartman]

The Ryder Cup is probably a bigger headache for the host course than any other event in golf...
[/quote]

How so?  The members are worried about their course and their range, both of which will still be in tact after a Ryder cup with the extremely limited amount of play

[David Bartman]

There are a couple of great options for managing traffic at CB. First is extending the Sounders commuter train. If you coordinate withe the freight carriers, that could solve the need for 20% to 30% of the expected crowd. The second option is a ferry service between Seattle and CB. A commuter ferries around here carry several thousand each. So that could be an option.

The other item that will help is docking a cruise ship to serve as the floating hotel for players and guests. That would relieve a great deal of traffic in and out of the course.

With its sand base and drainage to the sound, the fitness of the course will not be a problem. With its length and firmness, USGA can practically name their desired winning score.

The only thing that concerns me is the uniformity of greens.

I have heard that the players and USGA officials will be staying in cruise ships and ferry in due to the lack of enough "quality" hotel rooms immediately adjacent to the course.  

What is Tacoma 15 miles away from the course?  And only 1 4 star hotel, PGA players are not fond of that.  How many folks will leave their homes to rent them to players and their entourages for the week?  

I hope it has improved since the US AM, from a play-ability standpoint that wasn't very good,  to say the least.  

David

is that you barfing on GCA?

Not sure what this means?  Is Chambers bay a GCA sponsored course?  favorite? 
I was at the US AM and it was not well received by the players.  In regards to housing for the US Open ... it is an issue for that area, and a USGA official mentioned to me that Cruise ships in the harbor was being considered as a solution. 

[Richard Choi]

Not sure what this means?  Is Chambers bay a GCA sponsored course?  favorite? 
I was at the US AM and it was not well received by the players.  In regards to housing for the US Open ... it is an issue for that area, and a USGA official mentioned to me that Cruise ships in the harbor was being considered as a solution. 

The most egregious issues have been addressed (re approach shots not holding on 1st and 7th green)
 However, I guarantee most pros will hate it during the US Open (just go read the Rory's comment thread).

[Phil McDade]

Not sure what this means?  Is Chambers bay a GCA sponsored course?  favorite? 
I was at the US AM and it was not well received by the players.  In regards to housing for the US Open ... it is an issue for that area, and a USGA official mentioned to me that Cruise ships in the harbor was being considered as a solution. 

The most egregious issues have been addressed (re approach shots not holding on 1st and 7th green)
 However, I guarantee most pros will hate it during the US Open (just go read the Rory's comment thread).

Richard:

Mike Davis has said he's looking forward to the Open field playing on an all-fescue course; I'm guessing that had something to do with the grumblings of the US Amateur crowd, which as a rule is a pretty pampered set.

[Brent Carlson]

The only Open courses on the west coast to get the juices flowing are Pebble and Chambers.  Torrey is a snoozer. 

[Jud_T]

I know it'll never happen, but how great would it be to see these guys battling the summer winds and F&F turf at Old Mac or Pac Dunes? 

[Garland Bayley]

I played plenty, thank you. The weather sucked and the conditions sucked.

If May and June weather sucked, you must be quite the softy. As I wrote before, if the conditions sucked, then the course must not have been maintained very well. Where did you play? I hear West Seattle can be pretty wet.

It's precisely why I pulled the ejection lever. The weather sucks many years well into June and if you live there you know that.

Must be a transplanted Californian!

Three months a year it's spectacular. The rest...you can have it.

Thanks, We'll take it.

[Kevin Stark]

Indiana, actually. I live now in Indianapolis.

Off the top of my head, when I lived there I played: Aldarra, The Plateau Club, Glendale, Inglewood (a Doak zero if there ever is one), Bellevue Muni (ditto), Gold Mountain (the Olympic being my personal favorite out there), McCormick Woods, Druids Glen, Maple Valley, Willows Run, West Seattle, Jefferson Park, Jackson Park, Mount Si, Kayak Point, and another one of the Indian reservation ones in Snohomish County whose name escapes me. I'm sure I'm leaving a few out. Chambers Bay, The Home Course, and the University course in Auburn hadn't been built yet. My experience was that course conditions only got respectable in July. I suspect that Aldarra is pretty good most of the year, given the gazillions they invested in sandcapping and PVC pipe but I only saw it in August.

I hope Chambers Bay is good in June but I fear that it won't be. As David said, it wasn't well received in the US Am. Poor conditions would not help its cause. I've played there in late summer when I've been out on business trips and even then it wasn't very good.

[Phil McDade]

I hope Chambers Bay is good in June but I fear that it won't be. As David said, it wasn't well received in the US Am. Poor conditions would not help its cause. I've played there in late summer when I've been out on business trips and even then it wasn't very good.

Kevin:

Can you provide some specifics about Chambers Bays and why you don't think it's all that great? When you say "it wasn't well-received" at the US Am, what are some specifics? Conditioning? Turf (it's all fescue)? Maintenance meld for the tournament? As a piece of architecture?

When you say "it wasn't very good," what do you mean by that? Some specifics would help help clarify your argument, rather than generic objections.

[Matthew Essig]

The average rainfall in June in Tacoma is 1.57 inches. If, for some reason, it rains 2 inches in the span of a week (NEVER HAPPENS), Chambers Bay would easily be able to drain it.

At the US AM, I was able to ask for Dottie Pepper's opinion for a split second. She said Chambers Bay was the worst golf course she had ever seen. I was never able to ask why as I was walking with the placard in a different group. I don't know why the players disliked it so much. Probably because it was a little too hard. Complaining has become commonplace for pros. Haters gonna hate, I guess.

The 2015 U.S Open will be interesting and exciting, unless the winning score is +8....

[mike_beene]

Re the new course in Dallas,actually if the course is good it appears there will be some land around it. June in Dallas is the start of the dry season and we won't see much if any rain until October.And it is not extremely hot. The downsides are that the Byron Nelson is very important to Dallas charity and draws 70,000 on each of Fri,Sat and Sun. I just can't see the USGA wanting to come to Dallas in June.Seems like they have a known quantity in Southern Hills. The attractiveness of Champions is they can use Bermuda in Houston and firm it up.However,Houston is a much wetter climate so they may get those afternoon Piney woods thunderstorms.I think the Open is better left to the few traditional venues and areas where golf is a summer game.Golf in Texas is really not a summer game but a Ryder Cup would see perfect conditions .