[Patrick_Mucci]

fairway lines.

The more and more I observe, the more and more it appears that the original or former fairway lines have almost been abandoned, mostly by either benign neglect or vis a vis a deliberate effort to narrow the course to make it more difficult.

I think this shifting of the fairway lines is most evident, not necessarily from the tee, but, in looking back from the green.

I see bunkers isolated in the rough.

I see fairway lines that are counter to the flow of the land.

And, I can't recall one club that initiated a project specifically aimed at restoring old fairway lines.

Why are fairway lines the stepchild of golf course architecture ?

[Tyler Kearns]

Pat,

Fairway mowing lines are intrinsic to the strategic merit of a golf hole, as they shrink, so do angles of approach, and the strategy of the hole is less appreciable.  I think it is a shame to see bunkers encircled in rough, preventing balls from running into them and serving the purpose intended by the original architect.

There are many clubs that have embarked on restoring their fairway mowing lines, although I would venture to guess most of these projects have been a part of a larger restoration or master plan put together by a golf architect.  It seems wider is often viewed as easier amongst memberships, and they can be hesitant on those grounds.

As the green chairman at my club, I head out each spring with the superintendent and re-examine and re-establish our fairway mowing lines which had strayed over decades from the bunkers.

TK

[Bill Brightly]

This is something I think about a lot; there is no question fairways are far more narrow now. But when the ODG courses were built, there were no irrigation systems and I don't think they ever envisioned growing the thick bluegrass roughs we have today. Looking at old aerials of my home course, it seems we had short grass from tree line to tree line. But what kind of short grass was it? Certainly not the plush, well-maintained fairways we play on today. It would seem to me that even if a club was so inclined, restoring original fairway widths would be a very expensive proposition. Not only would the amount of fairway square footage increase, you would probably have to alter all of the irrigation lines and change the sprinkler head locations. And fairways are no longer cut with wide bench mowers, most clubs are using much smaller and lighter triplex mowers. 

[Sean_A]

fairway lines.

The more and more I observe, the more and more it appears that the original or former fairway lines have almost been abandoned, mostly by either benign neglect or vis a vis a deliberate effort to narrow the course to make it more difficult.

I think this shifting of the fairway lines is most evident, not necessarily from the tee, but, in looking back from the green.

I see bunkers isolated in the rough.

I see fairway lines that are counter to the flow of the land.

And, I can't recall one club that initiated a project specifically aimed at restoring old fairway lines.

Why are fairway lines the stepchild of golf course architecture ?

I recall having a waste of time conversation with a few years back about your beloved Mountain Ridge with its horrible cut lines.  A year later the penny dropped for you and now you join the crusade.  Better late than never.  

Cut lines marooning bunkers and pinching short of greens seems to be a private club deal for the midwest and east coast.  All I can surmise is supers like the look.  I recall one of Joe's lovely tours of Scranton, the course was pushing out the cut lines near the greens.  It does (did?) look a bit wierd and takes some getting used to.  Likely after playing a course like this one gains a better appreciation of the concept.  

Ciao

[Ally Mcintosh]

An architect (or at least some architects) will spend a lot of time on his cut lines so it’s frustrating when they disappear over time.

Pinching in to a few yards at the entrance to the green is a horrible look and most always is employed in conjunction with no short grass roll-offs from greens. My favourite of the big Irish modern parklands is the RTJ course at Adare but it employs this tactic and I wish they would veer away from it.

It’s not all about width though. It’s about the transitions. Some architects like them to be fully visible and thus frame. Other like to hide them as much as possible. I fall in to the latter camp.

One point about the rough cut around bunkers – this is often for practical purposes as the entranceway around bunkers can get compacted quite easily. Less so with fescues and sandy soil I believe.

[Tom_Doak]

Patrick:

We often make fairway lines the first thing we do at clubs where we consult.  It's what we call "non-invasive" architecture ... you can get many of the old lines back without having to dig anything up, as long as the superintendent and green committee are okay with scalping down the rough to fairway height in the fall and overseeding, and having it look a little rough for the first year of transition.  And, a lot of times this convinces clubs to look at other changes.

It's more of a problem when it requires trees to be cleared, or when a superintendent insists on a new irrigation system to support the added acreage of fairway.

[Patrick_Mucci]

I recall having a waste of time conversation with a few years back about your beloved Mountain Ridge with its horrible cut lines.  

Mountain Ridge's fairway lines are spectacular, save for the right side of the second hole.

The FACT that you've NEVER set foot on Mountain Ridge's fairways says all you need to know about your assessment that the fairway lines are "horrible"

At Mountain Ridge the fairways are cut right into the bunkers.
There is no bunker isolation

Basically, you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to Mountain Ridge

Only an uninformed moron would state that the fairway lines at Mountain Ridge are "horrible" .

A year later the penny dropped for you and now you join the crusade.  
Better late than never.  

I think you're more than confused.

Cut lines marooning bunkers and pinching short of greens seems to be a private club deal for the midwest and east coast.  

Not at Mountain Ridge.
What courses were you specifically referencing ?

All I can surmise is supers like the look.  


Supers like the look of cut lines marooning bunkers ?  ?  ?

I recall one of Joe's lovely tours of Scranton, the course was pushing out the cut lines near the greens.
It does (did?) look a bit wierd and takes some getting used to.  
Likely after playing a course like this one gains a better appreciation of the concept.  

Ciao

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tom Doak,

It's been suggested that a good way to preserve green lines is to bury a wire at the perimeter.

What would you suggest as a method for preserving fairway lines ?

[Mark Bourgeois]

I recall someone from the Golf Course Histories team saying the most widespread change that shows up in comparisons to historic aerials is lost fairway width. Said people bang on about added length all the time but nobody talks about lost width. Put the two together and you get reduced relevance of architectural features and changed "architectural meanings" -- not to mention a recipe for long rounds.

[Ted Sturges]

Pat,

When I was on the Green Committee at Broadmoor C.C. in Indianapolis, we hired Renaissance to restore the golf course.  They presented several recommendations in a master plan document, and one of the primary recommendations was to address the fairway mowing lines, which had been lost over the years.  The work Tom's team did there (thank you Bruce Hepner) has improved Broadmoor greatly and the mow lines are much improved.

TS

[Bill Brightly]

Patrick:

We often make fairway lines the first thing we do at clubs where we consult.  It's what we call "non-invasive" architecture ... you can get many of the old lines back without having to dig anything up, as long as the superintendent and green committee are okay with scalping down the rough to fairway height in the fall and overseeding, and having it look a little rough for the first year of transition.  And, a lot of times this convinces clubs to look at other changes.

It's more of a problem when it requires trees to be cleared, or when a superintendent insists on a new irrigation system to support the added acreage of fairway.

Tom,

My course has a "5-row" system with a center line for the middle of the fairway and the exterior lines have two heads: one throws in for fairways, the other throws out for roughs. The outside lines are a yard or two in the rough. If modest fairway expansion was considered, say three to five yards, do you know if the lines would have to be shifted?

[Mike Nuzzo]

What would you suggest as a method for preserving fairway lines ?

Pat
GPS, Photography, as-built drawings, satellite imagery, keeping an architect as consultant and education all work well.

[Tom_Doak]

Tom,

My course has a "5-row" system with a center line for the middle of the fairway and the exterior lines have two heads: one throws in for fairways, the other throws out for roughs. The outside lines are a yard or two in the rough. If modest fairway expansion was considered, say three to five yards, do you know if the lines would have to be shifted?

Sounds like an irrigation designer's wet dream.  I'm sure they would tell you to move a lot of heads.  [The piping would not need to be changed much, it seldom runs down the edges on most newer irrigation designs, they would just have to tap in at different spots.]  But ... there are lots of irrigation consultants out there who would tell you not to listen to me, because I've told people not to listen to them 

[Mark McKeever]

Tom Doak,

It's been suggested that a good way to preserve green lines is to bury a wire at the perimeter.

What would you suggest as a method for preserving fairway lines ?

A great idea.

MM

[Patrick_Mucci]

What would you suggest as a method for preserving fairway lines ?

Pat
GPS, Photography, as-built drawings, satellite imagery, keeping an architect as consultant and education all work well.

Mike,

I hear you.

But, day to day fairway line shifting can be insidious and not noticed by anyone until it's in a critical stage.

It's difficult to get minimum wage employees to adhere to precise mowing requirements, especially when trees and/or shrubs start intervening.

I was wondering if there were some method, that was visible but not intrusive, that could be used to assist with preserving the intended fairway lines, being mowed on a daily or regular basis.

[Bill_McBride]

What would you suggest as a method for preserving fairway lines ?

Pat
GPS, Photography, as-built drawings, satellite imagery, keeping an architect as consultant and education all work well.

Mike,

I hear you.

But, day to day fairway line shifting can be insidious and not noticed by anyone until it's in a critical stage.

It's difficult to get minimum wage employees to adhere to precise mowing requirements, especially when trees and/or shrubs start intervening.

I was wondering if there were some method, that was visible but not intrusive, that could be used to assist with preserving the intended fairway lines, being mowed on a daily or regular basis.

Supervision every day, which is pretty essential with low wage employees. 

[Brian Chapin]

Over the past few years I've found that we can take the grass from our normal rough height to our fairway height most successfully on our first mow of the year.  If we get much past the 3rd or 4th mowing we struggle much more with getting them to fill in the first year.... we did a few more this spring and you can barely notice the difference.

We've gone from 23 to 30 acre of fairways and haven't moved the irrigation much to do it.  Of course we only have 350 GPM so our fairways get such little irrigation it wouldn't much matter.

[Mike Sweeney]

Why are fairway lines the stepchild of golf course architecture ?

See your new friends at Streamsong. There are no fairways.....

[Patrick_Mucci]

What would you suggest as a method for preserving fairway lines ?

Pat
GPS, Photography, as-built drawings, satellite imagery, keeping an architect as consultant and education all work well.

Mike,

I hear you.

But, day to day fairway line shifting can be insidious and not noticed by anyone until it's in a critical stage.

It's difficult to get minimum wage employees to adhere to precise mowing requirements, especially when trees and/or shrubs start intervening.

I was wondering if there were some method, that was visible but not intrusive, that could be used to assist with preserving the intended fairway lines, being mowed on a daily or regular basis.

Supervision every day, which is pretty essential with low wage employees.  

Bill,

You can't expect a Superintendent to oversee each and every worker every minute of the working day.

And, you can't expect precision/perfection from an employee not being paid "perfectionist" wages.

In addition, there's a monotony associated with cutting the same lines day in and day out and I doubt the operator is concerned with the global issue of maintaining fairway lines to protect the architectural integrity of the hole.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Why are fairway lines the stepchild of golf course architecture ?

See your new friends at Streamsong. There are no fairways.....

Then what was that short grass I kept hitting my driver into ?

[Bill_McBride]

What would you suggest as a method for preserving fairway lines ?

Pat
GPS, Photography, as-built drawings, satellite imagery, keeping an architect as consultant and education all work well.

Mike,

I hear you.

But, day to day fairway line shifting can be insidious and not noticed by anyone until it's in a critical stage.

It's difficult to get minimum wage employees to adhere to precise mowing requirements, especially when trees and/or shrubs start intervening.

I was wondering if there were some method, that was visible but not intrusive, that could be used to assist with preserving the intended fairway lines, being mowed on a daily or regular basis.

Supervision every day, which is pretty essential with low wage employees.  

Bill,

You can't expect a Superintendent to oversee each and every worker every minute of the working day.

And, you can't expect precision/perfection from an employee not being paid "perfectionist" wages.

In addition, there's a monotony associated with cutting the same lines day in and day out and I doubt the operator is concerned with the global issue of maintaining fairway lines to protect the architectural integrity of the hole.

"Supervision" to me, a construction company owner for 30 years, includes consistent measuring and reviewing results.  I would be surprised if an effective superintendent didn't ride his course every day his crew is working, measuring results by doing such things as observing the fairway cut lines.   "Supervision" is not looking over employees' shoulders, it's a comprehensive program of training, goal setting, measuring, following up. 

[Patrick_Mucci]

Bill,

Supervising the construction of an inanimate structure differs from supervising the maintenance of  a living organism.

If it was so easy you never would have had systemic green shrinkage over the last 50 years.

Were all of those Superintendents derelict in their supervisory duties ?

Or are the day to day changes imperceptible to the naked eye ?

With 50 years of experience on a half a dozen green committees, including as Chairman, it's not as simple or precise as you imagine.

[V. Kmetz]

Some questions I have:

Qs:

1.  Were ODGs as precise with their fairways "boundaries" as we are today?  I mean I know that fairway bunkers drifting 20 yards into the rough was not the idea, but were the ODGs and the first supers of their course(s) mindful of such measurements down to the yard and foot?

2.  Are there any extant examples of ODGs or their later progeny mentioning fairway line "decay" (or green decay) in their surviving memoranda?

3.  RE: Merion this week...When RTJ started this "Open doctor" phenomenon (I'm assuming at the 1951 US Open at Oakland Hills) was there any outcry from the extant architecture community along the lines of protests heard here?

cheers

vk

[Patrick_Mucci]

Some questions I have:

Qs:

1.  Were ODGs as precise with their fairways "boundaries" as we are today?  I mean I know that fairway bunkers drifting 20 yards into the rough was not the idea, but were the ODGs and the first supers of their course(s) mindful of such measurements down to the yard and foot?
The ODG's designed with a good deal of precision.

Surely you've seen Ross's field drawings
Pretty precise aren't they.

Remind me again, what was Seth Raynor's occupation and where was he educated ?
Francis ?

The ODG's designed.
It was up to the individual clubs to maintain what the ODG's created

2.  Are there any extant examples of ODGs or their later progeny mentioning fairway line "decay" (or green decay) in their surviving memoranda?

What makes you think they returned to the courses they designed 10, 20 and 30 years after their creation ?

3.  RE: Merion this week...When RTJ started this "Open doctor" phenomenon (I'm assuming at the 1951 US Open at Oakland Hills) was there any outcry from the extant architecture community along the lines of protests heard here?


What architectural community ?

Irrigation systems probably played a significant part in the movement of fairway lines starting in the 50's

cheers

vk

[Lester George]

I just spent three days at Country Club of Florida to work on re-establishing some bunker edges.  While there I spent an entire day re-establishing fairway mowing patterns on every hole.  They have crept in (in most cases) in a number of places in the last seven years so Jeff Klontz and I reviewed and repainted all 18 holes. 

Fairway mowing patterns are an important part of course architecture to me.

Lester

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