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Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A forgotten architectural feature is
« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2013, 11:33:13 AM »
Bill,

Supervising the construction of an inanimate structure differs from supervising the maintenance of  a living organism.

If it was so easy you never would have had systemic green shrinkage over the last 50 years.

Were all of those Superintendents derelict in their supervisory duties ?

Or are the day to day changes imperceptible to the naked eye ?

With 50 years of experience on a half a dozen green committees, including as Chairman, it's not as simple or precise as you imagine.

Supervision is supervision.  You're not supervising grass, you're supervising people.  Don't you think there is some lack of effective management , perhaps not to the level of dereliction, if the fairways and greens shrink dramatically?

I too have served as a green committee chair.   While I admired and respected our superintendent, I had expectations that he met by keeping track. 

V. Kmetz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A forgotten architectural feature is
« Reply #26 on: June 13, 2013, 12:03:00 PM »
Just as a sidenote:

While I wouldn't think there was -- as the natural tendency is shrinkage caused by wishing to stay inside a mowing boundary - has there been any notable cases of unintended EXPANSION of a fairway or green boundary?

cheers

vk
"The tee shot must first be hit straight and long between a vast bunker on the left which whispers 'slice' in the player's ear, and a wilderness on the right which induces a hurried hook." -

Patrick_Mucci

Re: A forgotten architectural feature is
« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2013, 05:30:36 PM »
Bill McBride,

Fairway lines, like green lines, move at an almost imperceptable pace.

It's rare indeed when that movement is noticed by the Staff, Super, Green Chairman and Golfers.

I'll bet you everything you own that you never detected when a fairway had moved an inch.

Probably even a foot.

It's a gradual process that goes unnoticed at virtually every club.

What's easy to notice is when the mowing pattern moves away from bunkers and creeks.

In most cases, over the last 50 years, that movement has been encouraged and promoted by the membership, who were desirous of creating a buffer of rough in the name of fairness.

In the UK penal features are intended to attract golf balls, in the U.S there's an element that wants a safety net to prevent same, ergo rough.

But, as it applies to fairway lines, I've seen them altered because some moronic chairman indiscriminately planted a tree and as that tree grew, so did it's drip line, and as the drip line expanded, staff riding the fairway mowers veered to avoid the limbs.  And, in so doing, altered the fairway line, which went mostly unnoticed, because most related the fairway line to the drip line, so the two shifted in harmony and thus, no one noticed, except a few architectural buffs/geeks.

The second thing that happens at many clubs is that the position of Green Chair is a rotating position.
Just when a green chairman starts to "get it" his term is done and his replacement starts the learning curve all over.
Do you think an incoming Green Chair even knows where the fairway lines were 5 and 10 years ago.
Do you think he cares ?

Most incoming Green Chairs are told, as their first marching orders, "Make sure the course is in GREAT condition"

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A forgotten architectural feature is
« Reply #28 on: June 13, 2013, 06:40:02 PM »
Bill McBride,

Fairway lines, like green lines, move at an almost imperceptable pace.

It's rare indeed when that movement is noticed by the Staff, Super, Green Chairman and Golfers.

I'll bet you everything you own that you never detected when a fairway had moved an inch.

Probably even a foot.

It's a gradual process that goes unnoticed at virtually every club.

What's easy to notice is when the mowing pattern moves away from bunkers and creeks.

In most cases, over the last 50 years, that movement has been encouraged and promoted by the membership, who were desirous of creating a buffer of rough in the name of fairness.

In the UK penal features are intended to attract golf balls, in the U.S there's an element that wants a safety net to prevent same, ergo rough.

But, as it applies to fairway lines, I've seen them altered because some moronic chairman indiscriminately planted a tree and as that tree grew, so did it's drip line, and as the drip line expanded, staff riding the fairway mowers veered to avoid the limbs.  And, in so doing, altered the fairway line, which went mostly unnoticed, because most related the fairway line to the drip line, so the two shifted in harmony and thus, no one noticed, except a few architectural buffs/geeks.

The second thing that happens at many clubs is that the position of Green Chair is a rotating position.
Just when a green chairman starts to "get it" his term is done and his replacement starts the learning curve all over.
Do you think an incoming Green Chair even knows where the fairway lines were 5 and 10 years ago.
Do you think he cares ?

Most incoming Green Chairs are told, as their first marching orders, "Make sure the course is in GREAT condition"

Okay. I surrender.  Call off the dogs. 

Patrick_Mucci

Re: A forgotten architectural feature is
« Reply #29 on: June 13, 2013, 09:06:28 PM »
Bill,

Often it's benign neglect, not an overt shift.

Because the process is so gradual, it often goes unnoticed.

That's why I asked Tom Doak if there were any methods for preserving fairway lines.

The buried wire at the perimeter of the green is an excellent way to recapture green lines over time.

I was just wondering if a similar method could be employed with fairway lines.

Tony Ristola

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A forgotten architectural feature is
« Reply #30 on: June 15, 2013, 09:00:12 AM »
A forgotten architectural feature is?
Leaving the natural property largely in its natural state. Of course it's not always possible, but...

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