Pace of play at Pebble Beach

[Joel_Stewart]

The Golf Channel did a nice piece the other day on pace of play and highlighted Pebble Beach and their struggles.

http://www.golfchannel.com/media/golf-central-tuesday-feature-4/?cid=facebook_v_gc_slowplay_pebblebeach_060513

The synopsis is,

They began by interviewing RJ Harper the CEO who is keenly aware of the problem.  Most of the 15 minutes were then devoted to Bill Yates who is a retired industrial efficiency expert who now devotes himself full time to golf issues.  Pebble Beach hired him to study the problem.

The root causes are the amount of variables that Pebble encounters.  Because Pebble is a resort you have;

A.   Beginning, medium and advanced players who are both men and women.
B.   Club and muni players.
C.   Players that walk ride or take caddies.   (Mark Rolfing who was the developer of Kapalua had very strong words regarding cart        path only golf courses and the need to walk all the way across fairways as a major cause of slow play).
D.   Amateurs try to emulate professionals but they cannot replicate the pro game.   

Yates studied Pebble for some time found 23 initiatives to improve on.  Many of these are what he calls “emotional issues” and counter intuitive. He’s now working with the staff to implement the changes.

A few of the issues are;

1.   Stay to 10 minute intervals.  Do not let groups tee off on the 1st hole when the group in front is out of range.   (This did not happen when we played last week).   The point is to keep an “even flow”.
2.   Lengthen certain holes that have a quick pace.   He pointed out the 6th hole at Pebble plays very fast and he wants to slow down play on this hole.
3.   Have the ambassadors (marshals) assist players by raking traps or pulling carts around when appropriate.
You can see the entire segment here.

[Jon Heise]

Interesting stuff.  Hopefully having actual proof or specific reasons that cause slow play and then actually addressing them becomes more common.  My one trip around PB was about a 5 hour experience.  I'll take it, as I made it before it got dark.  And... its' Pebble.

Since moving to Chicago several years ago, I've gotten used to the pain of Chicago public golf (I live in the city.)  Drive at least an hour to find a generally overpriced golf course where you're stuck for a minimum 5 hours.  It's really sad.

Recently and for the first time in my golfing career, nearly 11 years, I had a starter explain pace of play and the consequences of falling behind.  I was shocked, even asking him if he's had any issues.  None at all.  4:10 round on Sunday AM.

ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS EXPLAIN IT ON THE FIRST TEE.

Big shout out to LAKES OF TAYLOR GOLF CLUB in Taylor, MI.  Good job!

[David_Tepper]

"ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS EXPLAIN IT ON THE FIRST TEE."

Jon H. -

Glad to hear of your positive experience. You are correct.

I have yet to play a public golf course where the starter took maybe 45-60 seconds to tell our group that

1) the expected pace of play is a certain time (4 & 1/4 hours would be acceptable and reasonable to me)
2) replacing divots would really be appreciated
3) repairing ball marks on greens would also be appreciated

My guess is the response to these gentle reminders coupled with a few encouraging words would be positive the vast majority of times.

DT 

[Bill_Yates]

Joel
Thanks for posting the story and the link. Pebble Beach is now realizing some pretty solid results, as do all the courses I work with.

I'll be at Merion all week working with the USGA.  So anyone who wants talk about pace of play, I'll be glad to answer your questions. I'm the one with the clipboard and stopwatches. I know it's a stereotype, but you've got to gather the facts some way.

GCA'ers, please introduce yourselves.

[Mark Chaplin]

If Bill gets Pebble one more tee time a day that's over $700k a year, so his work has a massive potential.

[Tom_Doak]

By contrast, I've been at Waialae Country Club the last two days.  They play between 60,000 and 70,000 rounds a year, and on the weekends they do tee times in SIX-minute intervals.  And it works!  We went out for nine holes at 3 p.m. with a sea of golfers in front of us, and came off the ninth green precisely at 5:00.

It works because everyone in the club knows they are supposed to play in four hours.  If they don't, they'll get a letter, and if they do it again, their playing privileges may be restricted.

However, it's much easier to enforce such a policy at a private club, than at a resort where you are also collecting $500 green fees.

[Brad Wilbur]

It's not good when one of your considerations on the tee is to hit your drive on the side of the fairway closest to the cart path.

[Joel_Stewart]

Bill Yates has a web site and has helped over 150 golf courses with pace of play. 

It's interesting that he works with golf architects to assist in design of courses to facilitate pace of play.   Hopefully Bill can discuss this.

http://www.pacemanager.com/

[Bill_Yates]

It appears that the link posted above is not working.  I do have a link on www.pacemanager.com that also presents the full Pebble Beach story, followed by an interview with Kelly Tilghman. Enjoy!

Joel, regarding my working with architects, the GCA interview of July 2007 provides a great deal of information on that topic along with an overview of my thinking on this whole subject.

Thank you all for your interest in pace of play. I personally believe it's an issue of "quality" and is critical to the overall health of the game.
Bill

[Ben Malach]

Bill you say on your web site you have work at St.Andrews. As I am a starter this year and I have noticed pace of play can be a challenge some days. Not blaming you or anyone other than the players what is one thing that me and my rangers can do to help when I'm on the Old, New or Jubilee? It feels like a lot of the time or advice to stick to time falls on deaf ears. Plus we also have the fun of our ticket holders wanting a quick and enjoyable round. If you have any advice help me out.

[Carl Nichols]

Bill:
Do you have a recommendation for the best way to police pace of play at a private club?  At my home course, on high-volume days we have someone sitting near the 18th green recording when people finish.  The start, finish, and total times for each group (with names) are then posted in the locker rooms, and people who violate the pace-of-play rules get a letter from the Greens Chairman.  This seems to work pretty well--only once every couple of weeks does someone play slower than the allowed time [4 hours for all rounds, except 3:40 or 3:50 if you tee off before 8am on weekends], and even then, not often by very much.

[John McCarthy]

Bill: 

Everyone complains about pace of play. 

You have done something about it.

Well done.

[jeffwarne]

The toughest thing to do when monitoring pace of play is to get early groups to move when they aren't being pushed.
You might say what does it matter?, but it matters greatly, particularly once a certain # of groups are on the course, you need leading groups to be where they should be in order to have room to move groups forward where they belong.
I will always go to the front of the pack( or near the front if the first group is flying) and let them know I'm about to move players up so they better get on pace.(and shuttle them forward if behind)
Then with the help of a ranger we will shuttle a group for a shot or two (not optional), particularly if a climb is involved. This of course works better at a walking course as a couple of brisk rides, especially uphill, do help them catch up.
I then inform them to maintain their position, go backwards through the field, and fill the new gaps we have created.

I often use the expression "pull from the front".

Too many rangers, especially at junior events attempt to "push from the back", and worse yet try to do so once the course is alrady full, at which point it's totally futile.

After 12 years of doing this, when I approach a group to simply say hello, they either break into a jog, or try to get in my cart

I found the Pebble comments about "lengthening" the time it takes to play a hole (#6) interesting.
We do a lot of junior shotguns with large, full fields there is often LESS waiting, if you LENGTHEN the course,(as opposed to all forward tees) because the kids can actually tee off, rather than waiting all day for kids to get out of range.
At the end of the day, it isn't how long you're on the course, as much as the waiting.
Playing and walking are way more fun than waiting.
Difficult concept for many to understand

[Patrick_Mucci]

Bill:
Do you have a recommendation for the best way to police pace of play at a private club?  At my home course, on high-volume days we have someone sitting near the 18th green recording when people finish.  The start, finish, and total times for each group (with names) are then posted in the locker rooms, and people who violate the pace-of-play rules get a letter from the Greens Chairman.  This seems to work pretty well--only once every couple of weeks does someone play slower than the allowed time [4 hours for all rounds, except 3:40 or 3:50 if you tee off before 8am on weekends], and even then, not often by very much.

Carl,

We dramatically increased pace of play by simply prohibiting mulligans on the first tee and by implementing a time out, time in, and differential policy.

Golfers were logged out when the last of the group finished teeing off of # 1, logged in when the last of the group had finished holing out on # 18, with the differential noted.

Rounds that took more than four (4) hours and/or finished more than 8 minutes behind the group in front, received slow play letters (the entire group)

When a golfer received a second slow play letter, they were prohibited from teeing off until 2:00 on the next two Friday's, Saturdays and Sundays.

A third slow play letter produced a monthly penalty.

A fourth slow play letter produced a seasonal penalty.

Play reduced from about 4:40-4:50 to 3:50 the very first year of introduction.

And, because we didn't know who caused the slow play, the entire foursome would get a letter.
That way, the slow players playing partners would act as expediters, moving the group along.

No on course confrontations, no marshals.

It was a simple exercise in time, math and enforcement.

Excuses were automatically discarded irrespective of the passion with which they were delivered.

Try it, I'm sure you'll get immediate results.

But, enforcement is the key.

Once the membership realizes that you're serious, they'll get serious about slow play.

By the way, Major league baseball games are suffering from a similar pattern with games averaging about 3 hours.

[Patrick_Mucci]

B Sheehy,

It is easy to implement.

The key is communicating the new policy to the members, vis a vis letters to every member and posting in the common areas, the locker rooms, pro shop and starters area.

Then a small committee, preferably three at most, the women's chairman, men's chairman and another member who's stridently behind the policy and enforcement, can field the absurd excuses and dismiss them out of hand.

The beauty of the system is that there's no on-course confrontation, no rangers, marshalls, etc., etc..
Just plain old time.

Mulligans are considered a slow play infraction on tees # 1 and # 10.

The other beauty of the system is that faster players in a foursome/threesome, will encourage the slower player to pick up the pace, lest they all get a slow play letter.

The system works very well as long as the golfers realize that enforcement will be ruthlessly administered.

No excuses.......... none.

[Forrest Richardson]

As Bill will tell people, pace is the battle cry, but FLOW is often the more crucial goal. Humans experience what we refer to as "perceived time" v. "actual time". The differences being the time we realize we are WAITING. This becomes the problem. When people WAIT they feel time is passing too slow, By contrast, if you are teeing, hitting, walking, chipping, putting, etc., you are a happy golfer. It is not always the 5 hours at Pebble that are the issue (for the golfers), but the waiting at certain places. That is what diminishes the experience.

A great story at pebble was Bill's work to simply set the course up a bit differently. At No. 6, for example, he once made the hole play longer (time-wise) so there would not be such a back-up at No. 7 While play at No. 6 was longer (time-wise), the benefit was better perceived time as there was much less  wait at No. 7.

[Bill Vogeney]

I have had the pleasure to play Pebble 5 times. I think my slowest round ever was 4:20, and every other round was within 5 minutes of 4 hours. I have also been fortunate to have played it typically teeing off by 8AM.

I think the caddies do a really good job of keeping you moving, even if you are taking a lot of pictures.

Vog

The Golf Channel did a nice piece the other day on pace of play and highlighted Pebble Beach and their struggles.

http://www.golfchannel.com/media/golf-central-tuesday-feature-4/?cid=facebook_v_gc_slowplay_pebblebeach_060513

The synopsis is,

They began by interviewing RJ Harper the CEO who is keenly aware of the problem.  Most of the 15 minutes were then devoted to Bill Yates who is a retired industrial efficiency expert who now devotes himself full time to golf issues.  Pebble Beach hired him to study the problem.

The root causes are the amount of variables that Pebble encounters.  Because Pebble is a resort you have;

A.   Beginning, medium and advanced players who are both men and women.
B.   Club and muni players.
C.   Players that walk ride or take caddies.   (Mark Rolfing who was the developer of Kapalua had very strong words regarding cart        path only golf courses and the need to walk all the way across fairways as a major cause of slow play).
D.   Amateurs try to emulate professionals but they cannot replicate the pro game.   

Yates studied Pebble for some time found 23 initiatives to improve on.  Many of these are what he calls “emotional issues” and counter intuitive. He’s now working with the staff to implement the changes.

A few of the issues are;

1.   Stay to 10 minute intervals.  Do not let groups tee off on the 1st hole when the group in front is out of range.   (This did not happen when we played last week).   The point is to keep an “even flow”.
2.   Lengthen certain holes that have a quick pace.   He pointed out the 6th hole at Pebble plays very fast and he wants to slow down play on this hole.
3.   Have the ambassadors (marshals) assist players by raking traps or pulling carts around when appropriate.
You can see the entire segment here.

[Dan Smoot]

I then inform them to maintain their position, go backwards through the field, and fill the new gaps we have created.

I often use the expression "pull from the front".

Too many rangers, especially at junior events attempt to "push from the back", and worse yet try to do so once the course is alrady full, at which point it's totally futile.

After 12 years of doing this, when I approach a group to simply say hello, they either break into a jog, or try to get in my cart

You bring up a technique which is easy to understand but would guess it is rarely used from what I have seen - rangers riding the course backwards.  One can easily identify specific problems and take action.   I have seen it done in a few places and they don't typically have pace of play issues if the ranger is truly given authority to handle the few trouble spots.

[Joel_Stewart]

Hopefully Bill can answer some of the questions now that he is back from Merion.

Looking at other questions, would Pebble ever consider a minimum handicap requirement?

[Bob_Huntley]

Joel,

Knowing a couple of the shareholders I would have my doubts.

Bob

[Ted Sturges]

I have been a member of several golf clubs in my life.  In all my years and days at those clubs, only one time did someone from the Pro's staff stand out on the tee and talk to each group about time expectations and tips for playing faster (ie:  starting one's preshot routine while the other players are playing their shot, abandoning the "honors" at each tee if the group falls behind in favor of "ready golf").  

Why isn't this done AT LEAST one day each season AT EVERY CLUB in the US???

I also had the benefit when I was in my early 20's of a day when the Supt. of the course I belonged to stood on the green of the first par 3 on our course and waited for each group to play up, and then he showed each player how to properly fix a ball mark (and he went on to ask that each of us not only fix our ball mark (properly), but look for others to fix on each green as well).  That place had almost zero ball marks (and much fewer dirt spots from people improperly fixing ball marks) on their greens.

Why don't clubs make things like this a standard practice?  With regard to ball marks, the one prong divot fixer has done much to solve the problem of people digging "up" ball marks instead of pushing them to the center...but having the Supt. of the club ask to one's face if you would please look for other ball marks on the green to fix goes a very long way.

Likewise, having the head pro "coaching" people on the first tee, prior to their round will have a much larger impact then the humorous commercials being run currently.  

Why aren't these things done more often on site?

TS

[Paul Gray]

Bill:
Do you have a recommendation for the best way to police pace of play at a private club?  At my home course, on high-volume days we have someone sitting near the 18th green recording when people finish.  The start, finish, and total times for each group (with names) are then posted in the locker rooms, and people who violate the pace-of-play rules get a letter from the Greens Chairman.  This seems to work pretty well--only once every couple of weeks does someone play slower than the allowed time [4 hours for all rounds, except 3:40 or 3:50 if you tee off before 8am on weekends], and even then, not often by very much.

Carl,

We dramatically increased pace of play by simply prohibiting mulligans on the first tee and by implementing a time out, time in, and differential policy.

Golfers were logged out when the last of the group finished teeing off of # 1, logged in when the last of the group had finished holing out on # 18, with the differential noted.

Rounds that took more than four (4) hours and/or finished more than 8 minutes behind the group in front, received slow play letters (the entire group)

When a golfer received a second slow play letter, they were prohibited from teeing off until 2:00 on the next two Friday's, Saturdays and Sundays.

A third slow play letter produced a monthly penalty.

A fourth slow play letter produced a seasonal penalty.

Play reduced from about 4:40-4:50 to 3:50 the very first year of introduction.

And, because we didn't know who caused the slow play, the entire foursome would get a letter.
That way, the slow players playing partners would act as expediters, moving the group along.

No on course confrontations, no marshals.

It was a simple exercise in time, math and enforcement.

Excuses were automatically discarded irrespective of the passion with which they were delivered.

Try it, I'm sure you'll get immediate results.

But, enforcement is the key.

Once the membership realizes that you're serious, they'll get serious about slow play.

By the way, Major league baseball games are suffering from a similar pattern with games averaging about 3 hours.

Pat,

I like this a LOT and am currently enforcing much the same at my club. No letters as yet as the approach, for now at least, is still a little softer than that. There's a great deal of ground to be made up, metaphorically speaking, and one small notice about pace of play was enough to nearly lead to a few members throwing temper tantrums.

My only one concern, and maybe it's something more applicable over here where groups are seemingly far more likely to vary in number, is that keeping groups on the clock could dissuade them from calling quicker groups through. Did you have any experience of this?

[David Ober]

Bill:
Do you have a recommendation for the best way to police pace of play at a private club?  At my home course, on high-volume days we have someone sitting near the 18th green recording when people finish.  The start, finish, and total times for each group (with names) are then posted in the locker rooms, and people who violate the pace-of-play rules get a letter from the Greens Chairman.  This seems to work pretty well--only once every couple of weeks does someone play slower than the allowed time [4 hours for all rounds, except 3:40 or 3:50 if you tee off before 8am on weekends], and even then, not often by very much.

Carl,

We dramatically increased pace of play by simply prohibiting mulligans on the first tee and by implementing a time out, time in, and differential policy.

Golfers were logged out when the last of the group finished teeing off of # 1, logged in when the last of the group had finished holing out on # 18, with the differential noted.

Rounds that took more than four (4) hours and/or finished more than 8 minutes behind the group in front, received slow play letters (the entire group)

When a golfer received a second slow play letter, they were prohibited from teeing off until 2:00 on the next two Friday's, Saturdays and Sundays.

A third slow play letter produced a monthly penalty.

A fourth slow play letter produced a seasonal penalty.

Play reduced from about 4:40-4:50 to 3:50 the very first year of introduction.

And, because we didn't know who caused the slow play, the entire foursome would get a letter.
That way, the slow players playing partners would act as expediters, moving the group along.

No on course confrontations, no marshals.

It was a simple exercise in time, math and enforcement.

Excuses were automatically discarded irrespective of the passion with which they were delivered.

Try it, I'm sure you'll get immediate results.

But, enforcement is the key.

Once the membership realizes that you're serious, they'll get serious about slow play.

By the way, Major league baseball games are suffering from a similar pattern with games averaging about 3 hours.

So if the first group goes out and finishes in four hours and the next group is right on their tail the entire way around the course and then there happens to be a lost ball on the final hole that causes them to finish 9 minutes behind, everyone in the groups gets a "letter"?

How ... Machiavellian of your club. 

The NCGA's (recently adopted by the SCGA) system has been working very well lately, but I understand they are able to enforce it because they have marshals on site to monitor pace of play. Their system is similar to yours, with two exceptions:

1) If there is one player in a group that is clearly holding everyone up, then only that player is penalized
2) If there is an extraordinary circumstance in any of the last three holes (e.g., lost ball where the player gets five full minutes to look for his ball), then exceptions will be made.

Previous competitive rounds could take over five hours with foursomes, but I've recently played two tournament rounds, both of which were played in about 4.5 hours, which is completely reasonable, IMHO.

Your system is a great one for casual, every day play, but I'd be curious if you use it in the club championship or any other stroke play tournaments.

[David Kelly]

I was at Chambers Bay a couple of weeks ago and the pace of play was slooooooowwww.  5 hours and 5:20 in the two rounds we played.  They lecture you on the first hole about how they want a 4:20 round and how everyone needs to keep moving and then they do absolutely nothing on the course to make it happen.  In the second round when we were playing #7 we noticed that the group ahead of us was 2 holes behind.  We mentioned it at the turn and nothing was done about it.  In the other round we often met the group ahead of us on the tee box while they waited as well.

[Matthew Petersen]

I was at Chambers Bay a couple of weeks ago and the pace of play was slooooooowwww.  5 hours and 5:20 in the two rounds we played.  They lecture you on the first hole about how they want a 4:20 round and how everyone needs to keep moving and then they do absolutely nothing on the course to make it happen.  In the second round when we were playing #7 we noticed that the group ahead of us was 2 holes behind.  We mentioned it at the turn and nothing was done about it.  In the other round we often met the group ahead of us on the tee box while they waited as well.

I agree, David. A couple people have mentioned they don't get "the talk" on the first tee very often, but it's pretty routine at CCFADs and other nicer public tracks around Arizona.

It just doesn't typically do much good, in my experience.