Benefits of Dredging Ponds?

[Patrick_Mucci]

If you want to fabricate an argument over the definition of turf go ahead.

Nobody fabricated an argument, that's just your way of trying to divert and deflect the focus.
You and you alone introduced the "canopy".
You and you alone devined that Jon wasn't talking about the rootzone, despite his typing that word over and over and over again, that he was really talking about the "canopy"
You jumped into the fray and got your nose bloodied and have takenn to being nasty.
I love it.  It doesn't get better than this, especially with you. 

I'm pretty sure people with turf degrees know the definition of turf.

Evidently, some on this site didn't, that's why I provided the definition of "turf".
And evidently the  authors of the article you cited, referenced "TURF" and not the "canopy".
So maybe the authors and I are in harmony with one another, whereas you, well you.........

But there are several different parts to turf that have different characteristics and environments.

I don't think anyone disputed that, but, you deliberately tried to equate and replace "rootzone" with "canopy".
YOU and you alone fabricated that argument.

It doesn't take a moron to know that by "turf" Jon meant the canopy, not the root zone.

So now you would change your argument by stating that Jon, despite typing and referencing "rootzone", over and over and over again, didn't really mean "rootzone", he meant "canopy" ?  And that you and only you were able to devine that Jon's typed words were......... not what he really meant.  Is that what you'd have us to believe, because you'd have to be a moron of classic proportions to stand behind that argument.

This is significant, because, in the future, despite what Jon types, you'll have to tell us what he really means.

Even after I published the definition of "turf", inclusive of the root zone, Jon never once, said, "hey, I wasn't talking about beneath the surface, I was really talking about the grass, you know, that green stuff that Ian calls the canopy."

So now you know what people are thinking, contrary to what they typed, over and over and over again.
You must be one hell of a mind reader, ala the great Kreskin.

Going forward, should we dismiss everything Jon types and dial you up to see what he really means ?

Talk about an arrogant asshole, you sure fit the bill.

And you are acting like an asshole trying to win an argument saying its all the same. And it's not.

It is the same thing, the rootzone and turf are about the layer of earth that support the roots.

The environment of the canopy is completely different from the root zone.

Everyone knows that.  Only a moron would state the obvious.
You're the asshole who introduced a completely seperate term/area and equated it with the rootzone.
It was you who equated rootzone and canopy, claiming they were synonymous.
You claimed that Jon meant canopy even though he repetitively typed "rootzone"
You alone knew that Jon really didn't know what he was typing.

The title uses turf because your not just cooling the canopy but also down into the root zone.

Oh no it doesn't, the article is focused on the surface and casually mentions fans having a cooling effect on the soil.
Try being intellectually honest, it might be a new experience for you.

And I don't expect you to admit you're wrong about your moronic stance that "canopy" is not the right word that you conveniently left out of your last post of garbage.

That's funny, so now you're going to equate "rootzone" with "canopy".
In addition, you're going to redefine the definition of "canopy".
Would you notify the 64 publishers of the various dictionaries to amend their definition to suit your view.
Earlier I mentioned nomenclature, but, evidently you didn't understand that comment.

But, since you injected yourself into this fray, driven by an emotional knee jerk response, let's see if you have the intellect to address several issues.

At what temperature in the article you cited, did it state that the plant would be near death ?
And does that number sound familiar ?

Second question, if the rootzone, or at your insistance, the canopy has water applied to it, and that water is 86 degrees F, and the application of that water cools down the rootzone/turf/canopy, was the rootzone/turf/canopy at a higher, lower or at the same temperature as the 86 degree water ? 

Take your time, no need to rush, just, for a change, try to answer a question.

And, if you come to the conclusion that the "rootzone" cooled by the 86 degree F water was at a higher temperature, what does the article you cited state about the health of the grass at a temperature of 86 degrees F or higher ?

Since you'll hem and haw with your answer, if the turf/rootzone was at 92 or 100 degrees, would it be alive or dead ?

And, if it was dead, why the need for water ?

[Jon Wiggett]

Ian,

 It is a waste of time trying to discuss anything with Patrick as he is incapable of admitting ever being wrong, probably even to himself.

What he fails to see is what his definition of 'turf' slaps him in the face with.

Turf: Grass and the surface layer of earth held together by it's roots"

i.e. turf is the combination of grass plant, soil and thatch which was missed.

Grass is grass, rootzone is rootzone and turf is something that includes both plus other things. I wonder how any green he built would survive with the rootzone being made up of 9" to 12" of layered TURF

Jon

[Patrick_Mucci]

Ian,

 It is a waste of time trying to discuss anything with Patrick as he is incapable of admitting ever being wrong, probably even to himself.

What he fails to see is what his definition of 'turf' slaps him in the face with.

Turf: Grass and the surface layer of earth held together by it's roots"

i.e. turf is the combination of grass plant, soil and thatch which was missed.

Grass is grass, rootzone is rootzone and turf is something that includes both plus other things.
I wonder how any green he built would survive with the rootzone being made up of 9" to 12" of layered TURF


Jon,

Thanks, the above post proves that Ian's misguided interpretation of what you "meant" by "root zone" was completely wrong, and that I was correct. 

It also proves how disingenuous you are.
Adding the word, "layered" to turf, is a childish attempt to divert and deflect the focus from your absurd position.

I asked you, if water, at a temperature of 86 degrees F was applied to the root zone, and it cooled the root zone, does that indicate that the root zone temperature was:

1.    Lower than 86 F
2.    86 F
3.    Higher than 86 F

Take your time.   Hint, it's not a trick question

Ian,

Now would be a good time to admit that I was right and that you were wrong 

And, that Jon doesn't know what he's talking about.

Thanks
 

[Ian Larson]

Patrick you're just an infantile moron who gets some sort of sexual pleasure out of lying, twisting, contorting and diverting to paint yourself out of corners while bullying others. You'll spend weeks going back and forth about the dumbest things to try to be "right". You're a narcissist with obvious issues and too much time on your hands. You'll never win an argument through lying and twisting the facts. Never.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Patrick you're just an infantile moron who gets some sort of sexual pleasure out of lying, twisting, contorting and diverting to paint yourself out of corners while bullying others. You'll spend weeks going back and forth about the dumbest things to try to be "right". You're a narcissist with obvious issues and too much time on your hands. You'll never win an argument through lying and twisting the facts. Never.

I don't need to win an argument by employing your tactics of lying and twisting the facts.

I win arguments by presenting facts and employing geometric like logic.

But, My, my, is this how you react when you're proven wrong ?
With bizarre personal attacks ?

I neither lied nor twisted the facts

YOU ARE THE LIAR AND YOU TWISTED THE FACTS

1.    YOU stated that Jon meant "canopy" when he stated "root zone".  That's "twisting the facts"
        And, that's lying.
        Jon has just reinforced my position that when he typed "root zone" he meant "root zone", not "canopy"

2.    I didn't win the argument by lying and/or twisting the facts.
       You lied and twisted the facts

3.    I won the argument by sticking to the facts.   

4.    Would you cite where I either lied or twisted the facts ?
       if you can't, then again, you're the liar, and a nasty one at that.

5.    You need to admit that I was right and you were wrong, dead wrong
       I know how painful that is for you.
       I have to conclude that it gets more painful with repetition,
       but you seem to be making a habit of it

6.     You need to inform Jon that he doesn't know what he's talking about.

7.     You need to attend anger management classes

8.     You must be fun to work with 

9.      Now go tell everyone that I was right and you were wrong
         Then tell Jon that he's wrong
         Then go take it out and yell at whatever limited friends and family that you may have

10.    You really are a sore loser.   and you can also remove the word "sore"

Have a nice day 

[Jon Wiggett]

Patrick you're just an infantile moron who gets some sort of sexual pleasure out of lying, twisting, contorting and diverting to paint yourself out of corners while bullying others. You'll spend weeks going back and forth about the dumbest things to try to be "right". You're a narcissist with obvious issues and too much time on your hands. You'll never win an argument through lying and twisting the facts. Never.

Ian,

Patrick is what is commonly called a 'troll' and should be treated with the disdain his sort deserve.

Jon

[Patrick_Mucci]

Ian,

Patrick is what is commonly called a 'troll' and should be treated with the disdain his sort deserve.


Jon,

Are you having a difficult time answering the multiple choice question ?

I can understand why you'd want to avoid answering it.

The answer will embarrasses you.

But, to help you out a little, it's not # 2.

Can't figure out why you're trying to suck up to Ian, he obviously thinks you're a moron for either substituting or confusing the "root zone" with the "canopy".

[/quote]

[Ian Larson]

Canopy is the wrong word Mucci. Do you know the technical term that experts use is "leaf zone"! Hilarious...

[Steve Lang]

  Boys, Boys, TIME OUT PLEASE.

isn't this definitional quibbling of ground temperature just a matter of millimeters???   among the several acres or hectare of green maintained at a course is much of it is ever monitored?  please enlighten me


In regards to ground water temperatures, I assume something similar to this may be available in the UK or Europe?


when I lived in Western Ohio, ground water temperatures from the Tenton Limestone 150-250 feet below ground level were around 55 degF year round (made for very stable power from our steam condensing turbines !)  which generally agrees with the EPA graphic

surface temperatures of 10-15 ft deep farm ponds where one would swim would be nominally the average of daily min & max temps, but bottom temps more like the min temps..

extrapolating ground temperatures from place to place is risky business, even using geostatistics..

me-thinks this turf battle is very unnecessary on points, related to pond dredging..

p.s. folks might want to consider a little lime stabilization of the silty soils removed from ponds.

[Jon Wiggett]

Steve,

the temperature of ground water an vary a bit depending on where the source is and its speed of flow. As to Ponds, that depends on many variables such as source of water, shade, depth etc. The only time I dredged a pond the silt was piled and dried into a concrete hard mound.

I do not think there is a 'turf battle' it is just a certain Patrick Mucci showing how little he understands about it but being to dense to know it 

Jon

[Patrick_Mucci]

Canopy is the wrong word Mucci. Do you know the technical term that experts use is "leaf zone"! Hilarious...

YOU, we're the one who introduced the word "canopy" when you incorrectly insisted that Jon meant "canopy" when he was typing "root zone", over and over and over and over again.

Perhaps you should consult those experts and have them tell you the difference between root zone and canopy, because, obviously, you don't know the difference

[Patrick_Mucci]

Boys, Boys, TIME OUT PLEASE.

isn't this definitional quibbling of ground temperature just a matter of millimeters???   among the several acres or hectare of green maintained at a course is much of it is ever monitored?  please enlighten me

Steve,

On one of my visits to Winged Foot last year, an assistant was checking the temperature of every green with a probe


In regards to ground water temperatures, I assume something similar to this may be available in the UK or Europe?

when I lived in Western Ohio, ground water temperatures from the Tenton Limestone 150-250 feet below ground level were around 55 degF year round (made for very stable power from our steam condensing turbines !)  which generally agrees with the EPA graphic

I think the issue/topic is about ponds, not deep ground water.

My question, which Jon does NOT want to answer, is:  If water at 86 F when applied to the root zone, cools the root zone, is the root zone at a temperature in excess of 86 F ?   Everybody, other than a moron, knows the answer is, YES.

Now, thanks to Ian and his posting of the USGA article below, the article tells us, that root zone temperatures of 86 F will cause the plant to be near death.

Ergo, root zone  temperatures of in excess of 86 F would kill the plant.

http://www.usga.org/ourexpertsexplain.aspx?id=21474848203

Now follow me further:

In order for root zone temperatures to be greater than 86 F, is it not indicative that atmospheric temperatures are 86 F or higher ?
Say, 90 or more degrees

With root zone temperatures in excess of 86 F, Jon indicated that the water being applied to that root zone was at 39 degrees F, subsequently he  indicated 37 F, a mere 5 F above freezing.

Jon also indicated that the application of that cold water could shock the plant.

But, if the root zone was in excess of 86 F, wouldn't it already be dead ?

And, if the ground and atmospheric temperatures were 86+ degrees, how can the temperature of regular retention ponds 10-15 feet deep, as in your example, be at 5 degrees above freezing ?

Of course, I was unaware that every retention pond was fed from glacial runoff ?
Especially in areas where the atmospheric and ground temperature was at or greater than 86F, like Florida, NY and NJ.

As a kid I swam in many ponds, bays, lagoons and the Atlantic Ocean  and I swam pretty deep, deeper than 10-15 feet, and in the summer, when it was 86 F out, I never encountered water temperatures barely 5 degrees above freezing.

My uncle on the other hand, was a member of the "Polar Bear" club, and they used to chop holes in the ice and go swimming in the winter.

Maybe Jon's a long lost relative on the other side.

[Ian Larson]

Classic example of how Patrick Mucci will lie and twist and squirm out of a wrong position like a snake. Before I cited the USGA article the word "canopy" was not even an acceptable word to use regardless of Jon. I needed to use the word "leaf zone".


"Ian, before that happens, perhaps you should take a refresher course in the English language.

You might want to reference "Webster's Dictionary" or the "Oxford Dictionary" or the "Collins English Dictionary"  or the "American Heritage Dictionary" or

Your interpretation of the word "canopy" is counter to that of the English speaking world.

Perhaps you don't understand nomenclature.

Now, if you're talking about the "leaf zone", that's a seperate area from the turf or root zone.

Temperatures and moisture in the turf canopy differ greatly than in the root zone.

"Canopy" is the wrong term, leaf area/zone would be a more accurate word/term."



Now even Mucci is using the word "canopy" when he's referencing what he tells me is actually the "leaf zone".

Canopy is the wrong word Mucci. Do you know the technical term that experts use is "leaf zone"! Hilarious...

YOU, we're the one who introduced the word "canopy" when you incorrectly insisted that Jon meant "canopy" when he was typing "root zone", over and over and over and over again.

Perhaps you should consult those experts and have them tell you the difference between root zone and canopy, because, obviously, you don't know the difference

17 years in the business with a turf degree and OBVIOUSLY I don't know the difference from the root zone and canopy  Ok Spalding, sure...




Patrick,

Just like you admitted in the post below, your experience in this stuff is things you may see while playing golf (site visit?). That's the extent of your practical experience. Except perhaps if you want to say your educated in it because you're very good at quickly looking up Wikipedia and Google when you're trying to "win" arguments on here. You're a spoiled country club boy that always has to be right.

And please tell me the difference between a pond and deep ground water? Can a pond not be the result of a deep groundwater source? What if a golf course feeds off a pond that used to be an old mining pit and is 100 feet deep? If you are correct then the golf course will only place it's intake at 20 feet? Yeah sure ok. If your correct statement of only 20 feet is the worldwide standard, then what is the standard area of the pond as to equate how many gallons are available before the intake is dry?

Deeper is always better and you are dead wrong that nobody will have an intake deeper than 20 feet. Dead wrong. When I did Construction of the 4 Barefoot Landing courses during college the one pond excavated for shaping fill was 80-100 feet deep and to have a pond that deep and only put the intake at 20'?!?!?! Why? Especially in South Carolina when you're using millions of gallons of water a night year round. Putting the pipe at 20' is robbing you and wasting available irrigation water with everything that's left below it.

And you might want to go play another round of golf, or as you call it a "site visit" like you're on official business, and while you're putting on 18 ask one of the greenskeepers if when turf reaches 86 degrees if its dead. Reaching 86 doesn't kill it. Turf reaches 86 all the time and survives. It goes into dormancy to protect itself and give the greenskeepers some time to get it cooled off. Dormancy, not death. You may know that if you have ever once in your life drug hose on a golf course instead of acting like this kid with your father at the halfway house...

http://youtu.be/0f6l1QljpMo

[Patrick_Mucci]

Patrick,

Just like you admitted in the post below, your experience in this stuff is things you may see while playing golf (site visit?).

1.    What "post below"
2.    My experience extends far, far beyond things i see when playing golf

That's the extent of your practical experience.

No it's not.
You have no idea as to my education and experience that has nothing to do with what I observe while playing golf.
How arrogant and ignorant of you

Except perhaps if you want to say your educated in it because you're very good at quickly looking up Wikipedia and Google when you're trying to "win" arguments on here.

It's amazing how you know so much about people, like when Jon typed "root zone" and you insisted that he meant "canopy"
Did you train "The Amazing Kreskin" or did he train you ?
My education in this and other matters couldn't be because I entered college as a chemical engineer could it ?

You're a spoiled country club boy that always has to be right.

Now that is funny.
So tell me, exactly how was I "spoiled"

And please tell me the difference between a pond and deep ground water?

ALL of the differences or just depth and temperature ?

Can a pond not be the result of a deep groundwater source?

Is that how most retention ponds are sourced ?
How would that affect the need for dredging ?

What if a golf course feeds off a pond that used to be an old mining pit and is 100 feet deep?

I see lots of them, especially in Florida, Long Island, NJ, Texas and California .
Would you say, in your expert opinion, that they are the norm, or rare ?

If you are correct then the golf course will only place it's intake at 20 feet? Yeah sure ok. If your correct statement of only 20 feet is the worldwide standard, then what is the standard area of the pond as to equate how many gallons are available before the intake is dry?

Let's take one question at a time.

What's your stated opinion on the average depth of retention/irrigation ponds ?
What's your stated opinion on the average depth of the outfall/intake pipe ?

As to the second question, the needs of the course determine the desired capacity of the retention pond and depth is but one component of the volume needed

Deeper is always better and you are dead wrong that nobody will have an intake deeper than 20 feet. Dead wrong.

Would you cite for me where i specifically stated that "nobody" would locate an outfall/intake pipe deeper than 20 feet ?
I'll help you in your quest.  Look at reply # 15.  Read it carefully.
Then admit that you lied and twisted the facts, something you're all to quick to accuse me of doing.
So, either your reading comprehension skills are abominable, or, you twist the facts and lie, or both.

When I did Construction of the 4 Barefoot Landing courses during college the one pond excavated for shaping fill was 80-100 feet deep and to have a pond that deep and only put the intake at 20'?!?!?! Why? Especially in South Carolina when you're using millions of gallons of water a night year round. Putting the pipe at 20' is robbing you and wasting available irrigation water with everything that's left below it.

Go back and read reply #15 you moron

And you might want to go play another round of golf, or as you call it a "site visit" like you're on official business, and while you're putting on 18 ask one of the greenskeepers if when turf reaches 86 degrees if its dead. Reaching 86 doesn't kill it.

Once again, you moron, you can neither read or tell the truth.

I quoted the very article you posted.
At 86F it stated that the plant was NEAR death, not dead.
Once again, you've twisted the facts and LIED.
Do you see a pattern ?
A consistent pattern ?
You can't read very well, and you twist the facts and lie.
Great combination.
Are you that desperate to try to finally win an argument with me that you have to resort to those tactics ?
No need to respond, we already know the answer  

Turf reaches 86 all the time and survives. It goes into dormancy to protect itself and give the greenskeepers some time to get it cooled off.

You really are stupid.
We know that.
The USGA article that you were kind enough to present stated same.
Perhaps, due to your inability to read, you missed the part about temperatures exceeding 86F and what would happen to the plant at those temperatures.

You remind of the kid who failed his final, and when he asked the professor, "why", the professor told him, because you didn't read and follow the instructions.

Huntington Learning Centers might be a worthwhile pursuit for you this summer

Dormancy, not death. You may know that if you have ever once in your life drug hose on a golf course instead of acting like this kid with your father at the halfway house...

Ahhh, the "spoiled kid" reference again.
Well I didn't drag hoses around nice country clubs in the summer when I was in college.
Instead, I collected premiums in Newark and the Oranges.
I had guys stick guns and knives in my face while you were dragging those hoses, taking special care not to disturb the Lady golfers.
Yeah, you really had it rough.
I bet those misquito's were really dangerous, or was it the golf balls from those ladies that presented your biggest threat ?

Get a life and a clue you schmuck






[/quote]

[Ian Larson]

Again, your practical experience is from what you see from the side of your caddy or golf cart. The difference between you and me is that while you we're in college working in the ghettos I was actually on a golf course construction site putting myself through school and actually doing, seeing, experiencing and learning the very things you like to act as an expert on and attack people. So continue on little Spalding Mucci. Enlighten us with your expertise of the golf course industry you've seen from your golf bag at all the wealthiest clubs in the land.

[Tony Ristola]

I've heard that deeper irrigation ponds means cooler water, which is more desirable for the grass when you have to sprinkle.

Is it not better to have the water as close to the temperature of the rootzone? By pumping significantly colder water onto the grass all you achieve is shocking the grass and slowing/stopping growth which is surely not desirable as it might lead to increased disease occurrence.

Jon

Jon,
That is the problem I've heard related to courses that would like to pump ground water from a well. I have a course that does exactly that, and the turf is fine. The greens are probably stimping 8.5, so it's not like they need intensive care unit treatment.

I find wetlands far more beautiful than ponds. Ponds are flat surfaces, offer no relief, little color, and when they're dug from a flat property they often come across as lifeless. Add amoeba forms and yeeeeech!

[Patrick_Mucci]

Again, your practical experience is from what you see from the side of your caddy or golf cart.

You have no idea as to the extent of my practical experience.


The difference between you and me is that while you we're in college working in the ghettos I was actually on a golf course construction site putting myself through school and actually doing, seeing, experiencing and learning the very things you like to act as an expert on and attack people.

I tend to think that when I was in college, you weren't born yet or were still in diapers

So continue on little Spalding Mucci.

Happy to do so.

Enlighten us with your expertise of the golf course industry you've seen from your golf bag at all the wealthiest clubs in the land.

I see, now it's about class warfare.
I've noticed that I answer all of your questions, but that you avoid answering mine.
Is that because you don't know the answer, despite your alleged experience in the "golf course industry", or because the answer makes you look foolish ?
Tell us, exactly what is your experience with regard to building golf courses ?
What was your title and role in building golf courses ?

By the way, this isn't about the "golf course industry", it's about a particular feature, one that I'm more versed in than you know.

As to your resentment regarding the courses I play, were you aware of the fact that I first played exclusively on municipal courses, the courses I caddied at and the courses I snuck on to ?

I didn't think so.

[Ian Larson]

This still under your skin Mucci? Geesh I thought you'd let it go. I guess you can't expect that from someone whose dealing with a narcissistic personality dysfunction. You still feel this burning desire to be "right". I don't feel the need to answer your questions because they're flat out stupid. There's never a stupid question in life, but that's different with you because of your intentions so I won't even entertain them. And it is about practical experience. You have none. You're not even in the industry. You're a high falutent golfing member who may have just enough understanding to be an a-hole. And if you must know I'm a construction project manager with a company out of Philadelphia with 6 new constructions and numerous renovations at clubs you whack off over as well as ACTUALLY BUILDING irrigation ponds,GPSing and plan preparation while studying for my PA State Board exam for Landscape Architects. But I'll let you win Mucci, as someone with half of my life in the industry and a turf degree..."I don't know". So go continue and crawl back into your cave. This is a waste of my time.

[Patrick_Mucci]

This still under your skin Mucci?

Not at all

Geesh I thought you'd let it go.

Shows how little you know about me

I guess you can't expect that from someone whose dealing with a narcissistic personality dysfunction.

So now you're a physician, one capable of making a diagnosis over the Internet.
You're a schmuck.
I take that back, schmeckle is more apt.

You still feel this burning desire to be "right".

It's not a matter of a desire of me being right, it's a matter of you being wrong, dead wrong.
Do you want to tell us again how you insisted that Jon meant "canopy" when he typed "root zone" over and over again, and then stated clearly that he meant "root zone" not "canopy" when he typed "root zone".  You couldn't have been more wrong, and now that you have egg on your face you're seeking to deflect attention from your moronic blunder.

I don't feel the need to answer your questions because they're flat out stupid.

You mean they just make you look stupid.


There's never a stupid question in life, but that's different with you because of your intentions so I won't even entertain them.
So now you're a mind reader and know my intentions.
Of course we knew that because you previously stated that Jon didn't mean "root zone" he meant "canopy", proving how wrong you were in your first attempt to imitate Kreskin.

And it is about practical experience. You have none.

What are you willing to wager on your above statement ?
Since you're so positive, with your uncanny mentalist abilities I'm sure you'll give me at least 10-1 odds

You're not even in the industry.

So it's your position that only those in the "industry" possess any knowledge of same.

Perhaps you can tell me why a dedicated CT Scan might be prefered, compared to a combination PET/CT scan ?
Or, can only Radiologists, you know, guys in the "industry"  answer that question ?


You're a high falutent golfing member who may have just enough understanding to be an a-hole.

It's "highfalutin", one word, spelled as I've indicated, not as you erroneously spelled.
Are you always wrong, or just consistently wrong ?


And if you must know I'm a construction project manager with a company out of Philadelphia with 6 new constructions and numerous renovations at clubs you whack off over as well as ACTUALLY BUILDING irrigation ponds, GPSing and plan preparation while studying for my PA State Board exam for Landscape Architects.

It's good to see that the firm you work for has 6 new projects and numerous renovations that they're working on.
Are you the project manager on all of them ?

To give you a clue, since you have none, I've also been in charge of a project which included building a retention pond, acquiring and installing state of the art pumps, mixing tanks and the irrigation system.  So, you' were wrong again when you stated that I had no experience in the "industry".   How can you be wrong so many times and still retain your arrogance ?

As to the clubs you allege that I "whack off over" , whatever that may mean, maybe, if you were smarter and worked harder, you could play them, as a member and/or as a guest.

But I'll let you win Mucci, as someone with half of my life in the industry and a turf degree..."I don't know".

You're going to "let" me win ?

So now, in addition to being a mind reader, you're also telling us that you're infallible, incapable of being wrong, that armed with your turf degree you know everything, and that no one should question anything you say.

Oh, I forgot, Jon had to correct you by stating that when he typed "root zone" he meant "root zone" and not "canopy" as you so erroneously and arrogantly claimed.

You stuck your nose into the debate between Jon and me and erroneously and pompously declared that Jon didn't mean "root zone" he meant "canopy", but, you were wrong, dead wrong and you got your nose bloodied, again, so like the pedantic whiner that you are, you resorted to nasty personal attacks, as if they would deter or have any impact on me.

You're a joke, a schmeckle of the highest order.

So go continue and crawl back into your cave. This is a waste of my time.

You chose to enter the debate.
You chose to erroneously declare that Jon meant "canopy" when he clearly meant "root zone" and you can't get over that anyone, especially me, was right and you were wrong.
You chose to spend your time trying to be right, despite the fact that you were wrong.
But, you're correct on one issue, it was a waste of time, when all you had to do was remain silent, rather than proving you're a fool by pretending to be a mind reader.

The next time you enter a debate, make sure you get your facts right, make sure you're capable of being intellectually honest and make sure you wash your mouth so that you don't get an infection when you lick your wounds.

[Ian Larson]

I want a hot dog, I want a hamburger, I want a cheeseburger...blah blah blah.

[Patrick_Mucci]

I want a hot dog, I want a hamburger, I want a cheeseburger...blah blah blah.

Wrong again

But being wrong seems to be your specialty

[Ian Larson]

"To give you a clue, since you have none, I've also been in charge of a project which included building a retention pond, acquiring and installing state of the art pumps, mixing tanks and the irrigation system.  So, you' were wrong again when you stated that I had no experience in the "industry".   How can you be wrong so many times and still retain your arrogance ?"

"A" project? "A" project Patrick? wow youre the voice of experience on this arent you? Sorry, being a Greens Chair or serving on a committee and acting like you're in charge when there is the Architect, Engineers, Consultants, Contractors and Super doing all the work while you show up for meetings after your round of golf in your pleated chinos and Vinyard Vines shirt HARDLY means you're experienced or in charge...more less have any expertise on it to feel you can bully people around. You've "witnessed" ONE project. There are a million scenarios and a million ways to things out there Patrick. Your ONE project doesn't give you the right to tell Jon that what he has experienced in a completely different part of the world is wrong. Let us know when you actually gain some practical experience in this on more than ONE project at a club where you're a member  serving as Chair or on a Commitee and actually get your silky smooth hands dirty and calloused. Then people may take you seriously.

[Patrick_Mucci]

"To give you a clue, since you have none, I've also been in charge of a project which included building a retention pond, acquiring and installing state of the art pumps, mixing tanks and the irrigation system.  So, you' were wrong again when you stated that I had no experience in the "industry".   How can you be wrong so many times and still retain your arrogance ?"

"A" project? "A" project Patrick? wow youre the voice of experience on this arent you?

I thought you claimed that I had no experience
Not surprisingly, you're wrong again.

And, unlike you, I'm intelligent and a fast learner.


Sorry, being a Greens Chair or serving on a committee and acting like you're in charge when there is the Architect, Engineers, Consultants, Contractors and Super doing all the work while you show up for meetings after your round of golf in your pleated chinos and Vinyard Vines shirt HARDLY means you're experienced or in charge...more less have any expertise on it to feel you can bully people around.

The fact is that I was in charge.
I retained the architect, engineers, consultants, general contractor, sub-contractors, lawyers, environmental experts, etc, etc.
I orchestrated everything, from "A" to "Z"
So you're wrong again.

You've "witnessed" ONE project.

You're wrong again.
It's beyond comical that you can be wrong so many times.
You must be inept at what you do.
I was intensely involved in every facet of that project.
And, what makes you think that's the only project that I've been involved with ?
You just don't have a clue and you're too stupid to recognize that.


There are a million scenarios and a million ways to things out there Patrick.

What great words of wisdom ?  ?  ?  ?

Your ONE project doesn't give you the right to tell Jon that what he has experienced in a completely different part of the world is wrong.
Why do you erroneously assume that I've only been involved with one project.

Oh, so now YOU are the one who decrees what posters can say to another poster ?
That's really funny and shows how incredibly stupid you are.
YOU told Jon that he didn't mean "root zone" when he typed "root zone"
YOU insisted that he meant "canopy", despite the fact that he indicated that he knew the difference between the two terms and that he meant what he typed despite your arrogant insistence that he meant something else.

You're beyond a joke.. You're an embarrassment
Common sense and basic math skills should have enlightened you and Jon, but it's obvious that you possess neither..   

Let us know when you actually gain some practical experience in this on more than ONE project at a club where you're a member serving as Chair or on a Commitee

I have had experience on more than one project and at locations where I'm not a member, so, not surprisingly you're wrong again.
You look so incredibly foolish, and the beauty is, you're the one making a fool of yourself, without the help of others.
You make adamant statements only to be proven wrong, time after time after time.
You're a joke.
How can anyone take you seriously

and actually get your silky smooth hands dirty and calloused.

Obviously, like so many things,  you don't even know the meaning of the word "callous".
Look it up you putz.
You can thank me for helping to educate you, again..... later.

As to getting my hands dirty, once again you have no clue as to the scope of my activities.
Basically, you're a moron, who takes wild stabs in the dark, hoping that just once you might be right.
Unfortunately for you, you've been wrong on a consistent basis.


Then people may take you seriously.

As an advisor to New York Stock Exchange companies, Fortune 1,000 companies, and serving on the Boards of Charitable Organizations and Foundations, people take me seriously.

Too bad the same can't be said of you.

You're an arrogant putz who hasn't been right as often as a stopped clock.

[Ian Larson]

"Jon,

I doubt you'll find an outfall pipe for irrigation deeper than 20 feet.

I can't think of any, can you ?"


So as our local expert, please explain to the forum...in precise detail...exactly what the hell an "outfall pipe" is. And please explain to the discussion group how it is that you have come to the conclusion that you will not find one of these deeper than 20 feet. And again...in precise detail...why exactly you WON'T find them deeper than 20 in any situation around the world. Enlighten us with your expertise and support your horribly informed generalizations and accusations. And no BS Mucci diversions, just answer the questions.

[Jon Wiggett]

Ian,

I would just let the whole thing go. Patrick is just one sad little man. I doubt he will ever tell you about his vast experience in golf construction as he is just too modest so you will need to help him out by asking if anyone else could name projects he has worked on.

DOES ANYONE KNOW OF ANY GOLF CONSTRUCTION PROJECT PATRICK HAS BEEN INVOVLED IN?

Jon