[RJ_Daley]

Hunter Mahan struck his tee shot into a tree.  It stuck up in the tree.  With aid of an excellent camera, they were able to clearly see his mark on the ball and so ID’ed it.  Thus, he didn’t have to go back to the tee on a lost ball, instead got an unplayable lie under the spot in the tree where his ball was lodged.  So, we watched him under rules official supervision find the proper drop spot, and he got his unplayable penalty, set up and struck his next shot from that point.
My question is:  What would have happened if, upon dropping his ball properly as an unplayable situation, and while he was getting set to strike the next shot with penalty – if the ball lodged in the tree would have come dislodged and dropped on his head or just had fallen to the ground, BEFORE HE HIT HIS NEXT SHOT W/PENALTY?   Is it the case that once he dropped the next ball, the first one declared unplayable is abandoned and irrelevant any more, once the second ball is dropped?  Or, if he hadn’t taken a stance and at any point prior to actually taking a swing at that dropped ball, he could play the original ball upon it becoming dislodged.  And, the secondary question… is there further penalty if it dropped on him and hit him.  And, if he hadn’t even had time to drop his next ball yet, and it fell out of the tree and hit him, would it be a penalty for hitting him, or if it didn’t hit him and he didn’t drop yet, does he get to just play on?  That situation seems to me to be a rules nightmare….

[Michael Moore]

20-4. When Ball Dropped Or Placed Is In Play

.   .   .

A substituted ball becomes the ball in play when it has been dropped or placed.


This is a bitter pill to swallow when you drop, and then before you swing, your partner sees your ball thirty yards ahead as was the case for me at sweeps last week. But if you think about it, it's the only possible way the rule can operate.

[RJ_Daley]

Ok, thanks Michael.  Strict adherence to the idea of once another ball is dropped, that is the status of the match and anything that happens related to the original ball is z moot point. 

Now, if you could answer... what happens if a new ball hasn't been dropped yet, and the original ball falls out of the tree and hits the player?  Is that a penalty?

[Andrew Brown]

Now, if you could answer... what happens if a new ball hasn't been dropped yet, and the original ball falls out of the tree and hits the player?  Is that a penalty?

RJ,

If you don't mind a comment from someone other than Michael 

I inhabit a rules website, where such a situation was debated recently - i.e, if the player has declared his ball unplayable, but before he picks it up and drops it / or drops another ball (as that rule allows) the ball moves (and in your question hits the player).

There is no clear-cut answer in the Rules or Decisions, the debate on the website had two opposing opinions, and to my knowledge, no clarification was sought from the R&A or  USGA.

I am on the side of that if the ball moves, even after the player has declared it unplayable, he is bound by what happens to the ball. That is, if it falls out of the tree, he will have to play it as it lies or proceed under any other applicable Rule. If the ball struck the player, his partner, either of their caddies or equipment (all angles covered there  ) he incurs a penalty stroke and then has to proceed under the Rules.

Andrew

[David Royer]

The exact moment it left his hand while dropping was when the ball became in play.   

[Ed Brzezowski]

The exact moment it left his hand while dropping was when the ball became in play.   

Really?? What if it had rolled three club lengths away from the spot?  I believe the ball is in play when it  comes to rest in accordance with the operative rule for the situation.  How would you rule if it struck his shoe on the way down?? 

[Mike Benham]

Hunter Mahan struck his tee shot into a tree.  It stuck up in the tree.  With aid of an excellent camera, they were able to clearly see his mark on the ball and so ID’ed it. 

To clarify, only Hunter can identify his ball, not a someone on TV.  He used binoculars to identify his ball.

[RJ_Daley]

Mike, actually, Hunter used the live camera offered to him to see exactly what we were seeing.  The superior optics of the camera were apparently better than the bi-nocs.  At any rate, the viewer and Hunter could clearly see it was his mark on that ball.  

All I could think of was how the TV view showed how much the branches were moving and how possible it was that the ball might come dislodged.  I thought, 'why is he so in a hurry to drop another?'   I thought, he better get himself out of that area where it might drop out of the tree because I was fairly sure that it would be a penalty if it hit any player-caddie or their equipment, but not a spectator.  What I didn't know is what would happen if he dropped and as he was setting up, the original fell.  So, thanks fellows for those clarifications.

Dave, you did a very good job of covering and pondering all the legal bases.  You must have experience...  

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