Golf clubs in Argentina

[Ricardo Ramirez Calvo]

I'll try to post pictures of clubs and courses in Argentina, to give you some idea of the different venues. The first one is the Old Course of the Mar del Plata Golf Club, which is called the Cathedral of Argentine golf.

The Clubhouse with the 18th green in front of it:




A closer view of the Clubhouse terrace:




A general view of the course. The Atlantic is on the left side of the picture, just across the road and the field that can be seen in the far left, which is the naval base and when the course was built in 1900 used to be a beach.



A view towards the Ocean, with a player playing the 18th hole.



More to come.

[Ricardo Ramirez Calvo]

A very Scottish view. The green in the front is the 10th and the one in the back is the 11th. Both par 4s which ran parallel to the Ocean. The flag you can see on the right side of the 10th green, on top a the dune, is the 8th, a very short par 3 (only 123 yards from the back tees), but one that can ruin a score very easily. Depending on the wind, an average golfer can hit from a sandwedge to a 5 iron.



Another view of the 10th and 11th:




A view from above. The fairway in the front is the 18th. You can see the bunkering and, although not identifiable in this picture, the big bunker on the right side of the picture has railway sleepers more than 2.50 mts (more than 8 feet) high. The green visible on the left side is the 9th.



Another view taken from the same place, but with the 18th green now visible in the picture.

[Mark McKeever]

Ricardo,

Does Angel Cabrera belong to any of these places?

Mark

[Ricardo Ramirez Calvo]

This course is not his home club, but he has played many times at this course and won the Southern Open, the second oldest professional tournament in Argentina and one of the 15 oldest in the world, which is played there every year. His home club (where he caddied before becoming professional) is Córdoba Golf Club and the course is known as Villa Allende. I'll try to post photos of Villa Allende, but I don't have them here with me.

[Ricardo Ramirez Calvo]

Maps of each hole at the Old Course Mar del Plata Golf Club. The front nine:

[Jeff Evagues]

Ricardo, do you have anything from Olivos? I played there while on a cruise a few years back.

[Ricardo Ramirez Calvo]

Back nine:

[Bill_McBride]

I love the British look of the clubhouse!   Some of the fine architecture in Buenos Aires shows the British influence, particularly the train station.

[Ricardo Ramirez Calvo]

Ricardo, do you have anything from Olivos? I played there while on a cruise a few years back.

Jeff,

I don't have anything handy right now, but I will certainly find something and post it. Give me some time.

[Ricardo Ramirez Calvo]

I love the British look of the clubhouse!   Some of the fine architecture in Buenos Aires shows the British influence, particularly the train station.

Bill,

There is a book written by Graham Yool called The forgotten colony, which reviews the strong British influence in Argentina. The majority of clubs were created by British. The founders of Mar del Plata Golf Club were British employees of the railroad companies, as it happened to all other clubs from that time. The first 3 Presidents of the Club were Mr. Henderson, Mr. Watson and Mr. Pettigrew.

The founder of the Hurlingham Club in Argentina was John Ravenscroft, another railroad employee. This famous phrase was "We need to have a Hurlingham". That influence is still very strong in certain areas (forget about all the nationalistic propaganda).

[JMEvensky]

Ricardo,thanks for the photographs.

We used to have an Assistant Pro from Cordoba who always told me there was great golf in Argentina. Looks like another addition to my list of places to see.

[Randy Thompson]

We all have different taste but Mar del Plata is my favorite golf course in Argentina. I hope Gian Franco doesn´t see this! What a fun and challenging course. Ten and eleven are spectacular holes but I really think the seperation or slope on the right side should be long and natural as we installed during my involvement in consulting. Looks to be in good condition. Hopefully they have not added automatic irrigation to the fairways, I really think that would be a major mistake. I think in my interview with Ran and Ben there is a picture of the railroad timber Wall in eighteen which is really cool. I like some of the work of the sod bunkers done by HUGH before he died, be nice to show some of them if they still exist. Something else you should share is the total acres used for eighteen holes and six holes of klds course. An incredible low number!!

[Thomas Dai]

RRC,

This is really good. Thanks for posting. Splendid to have input from another part of the globe.

The clubhouse building sort of reminds me of Royal Lytham, although that may just be the colour of the brickwork. The Old course at MdPCC, on what seems a pretty small acreage of land, looks most interesting, in fact I looked very closely at it on Googlemap, where by zooming in on each hole it becomes even more impressive as the contours and gradients are clearly visible, even the sleepered bunkers you mention can be seen. I also looked at the clubs website and saw the wonderful old photos of the early days of the club when the course really was right next to the beach.

I look forward to seeing more details of golf courses in Argentina.

All the best.

[Ricardo Ramirez Calvo]

Randy,

Raises some memories, doesn't it? The number of acres is 71 for 18 holes (6,089 yards from the back tees, par 70) and 6 short holes for children (where I learned to play when I was 5 and all my kids spend their summer time playing).

I didn´t understand your reference to the slope.

What I would do if I were the captain is to take out many trees and try to go back to the real links it is. In particular that horrible dead tree between the 18th and 9th tee.

I'll put more photos later.

[Randy Thompson]

Ten and eleven drop down in eleveation, to the right of the holes you see a long Wall that seprates 9 or eighteen don´t remember, this seperation should be will, and wooly and long links grass.

[Ricardo Ramirez Calvo]

Got it now. It usually has very long rough which makes it almost impossible to find the ball if you hit it there.

A photo of the clubhouse from above.

[Ricardo Ramirez Calvo]

Another photo of 18th and 9th. The green that can be seen underneath the date is the 6th of the children's course and the isolated tree that can be seen in the right hand corner is the one that I want to get rid of.

[Brian Finn]

I am really enjoying these photos.  Mar del Plata looks like a really fun course. 

I think a children's course is a wonderful idea.

[Randy Thompson]

Ricardo,
An awful lot of grass,,,must have been a rainy season or irrigation was added, which I was against, hard and inconsistent lies combined with the wind were an important defense of the course in my opinión. But sometimes public pressure wins.
Just arrived to Cordaba, if you ever get out to these parts let me know and we can check out something new and interesting together.

[Ricardo Ramirez Calvo]

Randy,

No irrigation was added, although I have views slightly different from you. The last photos were taken in October 2004, during the Copa Los Andes (the South American team competition). At that time of the year, it rains a lot and the course is naturally green. But don't get fooled by the images. You never ever get a nice lie in the Old Course of MPGC. Fairway grass is still fescue and even with a lot of water it is totally different from bermuda.

Regarding irrigation, we've had times of terrible droughts (3 months without a drop), with very high temperatures (40 degrees celsius). And this in the high season when all the members that live far away go for vacation. You end up playing on concrete. I don't want the course to become a grass cushion, but at least it needs some grass, not rock. Irrigation should be used only scarcely, in these extreme situations. You may answer that we should accept those conditions, but when that means that 100% of the time that you use the club in the entire year or during 2 years, you have to play under those conditions, believe me: it's not nice at all.

As you may remember, MPGC is a very special club full of difficult members (I'm one of those). Most of us pay full membership and use the club 15 days a year at the most.

[Ricardo Ramirez Calvo]

In this photo, taken in March (after the main part of our summer), you can see that the course is much more dry.



A photo of the 12th tee, during a Southern Open. One of the players on the tee is Angel Cabrera.



A photo that shows how close the beach is from the course.



The main entrance of the Clubhouse.

[Randy Thompson]

Ricardo,
I can understand on how you feel and there are never clear cut answers and your points are valid from a member perspective. I love the last photo, they show fast and firm. A lot of tecnology advances, have ruined a lot of courses. What I love about Mar de plata golf course, is that the enviromental conditions enter the game as was the case for all courses one hundred years ago and most have lost this througth technical advances. Its Unique for Argentina and there are fewer and fewer in the world that remain in this catagory. I also love La Cumbre, why...becasue they never had the money to mess with the original design and install the tech advances, so it too remains special.

[Ricardo Ramirez Calvo]

Randy,

I completely agree with you. I also love our Old Course at MPGC because of that and I would hate to have that changed. I am very conservative and I love links courses. I also agree with you about La Cumbre (by the way, did you know that it was designed by Juan Dentone, the same that designed the Old Course at Mar del Plata?). One of my partners at the law firm was captain of La Cumbre. It is just a matter of degree. No extreme is good and we should stress to keep the course as natural as possible but at the same time playable. That is why I would like to get rid of the trees.

I am at Miramar now. I'll try to take photos of the course during the weekend.

[Lou_Duran]

I'll try to post pictures of clubs and courses in Argentina, to give you some idea of the different venues. The first one is the Old Course of the Mar del Plata Golf Club, which is called the Cathedral of Argentine golf.

Welcome to the site.  Part of my family immigrated to Argentina from Spain back in the 1940s so I have a great interest in the country, though I've only been to BA once for a short time.

If the Old Course of MdPGC is the Cathedral, what is the Jockey Club's Colorada course known as?  Would you compare and contrast the two?

What is the status of Argentine golf today?  Is there any appeal to the masses?  Opportunities for growth?  Are the well-known international golfers celebrated by the country?  Have they had an impact on growing the game?

[Jon Wiggett]

Randy,

No extreme is good and we should stress to keep the course as natural as possible but at the same time playable. That is why I would like to get rid of the trees.

Randy,

you seem to be suggesting that the course is unplayable. Can you explain how it is unplayable. Also, be careful what you wish for with wanting an irrigation system. I have yet to see a golf course which doesn't over use its new toy to the point of ruining the course when getting a new irrigation system. I would point out that the club has managed just fine without till now.

Jon

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