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David Amarnek

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Underrated
« Reply #25 on: May 01, 2013, 06:37:00 AM »
Jim,
Westwood started out in Glendale at the site of the current Westborough CC, designed by Tom Bendelow (1908).  Bendelow also designed it's neighboring course, Algonquin GC, in 1903.  The leadership over time felt a move was necessary to develop a new course and the site on Conway Road was chosen in 1928.  Little known Cleveland architect and golf pro Harold Paddock designed the new course.
Westborough went through several eras of going public and then private again, sold some land and became the rather tightly packed, short course that it is today.  It is famous for being the home club of Jim Holtgrieve, current Walker Cup Captain.
Westwood CC, at it's current location, has hosted two Western Opens, one Women's Western Open (then a major) and supposedly turned down a PGA Championship and US Open.
I put it just behind SLCC and Old Warson as my favorite layout in town.

Bob_Garvelink

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Underrated
« Reply #26 on: May 01, 2013, 08:23:29 AM »
Two Michigan golf courses come to mind when I start thinking of which tracks get little attention on a national level.

Kingsley Club - A little slice of heaven that gets alot of support on this site but is probably one of the best kept secrets in the U.S.  I have played the course twice so my knowledge is limited but Kingsley always seems to be in perfect condition.  The course played firm and fast and the greens were so pure.  Additionally, the remoteness of Kingsley really adds a uniqueness of the club.  Golf simply doesnt get any better than the Kingsley Club

Black Lake Golf Club - Oh boy....I'm going to take a beating for this suggestion as I know many people on this site are not fond of Rees Jones  ;D Black Lake is one of the most georgous courses I have ever played.  The conditioning is always in tip top shape and the course provides a unique challenge each time you play it.  Tight fairways paired with elevated greens make this a true test for any level golfer.  Additionally, the fairway bunkers and rural feel really seperate this course from others that I have played.  Furthermore I was pleased with the fact that Black Lake is very playable for women as my wife and I have a wonderful time during our last round in Onaway.  Black Lake is a wonderful track and if your ever in Northern Michigan it deserves a look......yes even if Rees Jones built it  8)
"Pure Michigan"

Gene Greco

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Underrated
« Reply #27 on: May 01, 2013, 08:38:54 AM »
Baltimore Country Club
"...I don't believe it is impossible to build a modern course as good as Pine Valley.  To me, Sand Hills is just as good as Pine Valley..."    TOM DOAK  November 6th, 2010

Paul Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Underrated
« Reply #28 on: May 01, 2013, 08:39:58 AM »
Lookout Mountain in Georgia
Paul Jones
pauljones@live.com

Parker Reeves

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Underrated
« Reply #29 on: May 01, 2013, 09:42:24 AM »
Thanks to everyone for the great suggestions so far...I think this will really help people out when traveling.  

Bill - What a small world!  The golf in our area is still fairly limited.  We have 3 golf courses in close proximity including Packsaddle Ridge, Lakeview, and Spotswood CC.  We practice at Packsaddle and Lakeview which are totally opposite courses which is good for our guys.

Tom - I have not played Moraine or NCR but have heard good things about both...It sounds like I need to get over to Dayton!

Chris - Springfield is quite a golf course.  I've played it a few times and I think it's safe to say that is has the most severe green complexes I've ever seen.  It is very possible to putt the ball off of many of the greens.  Springfield is the Columbus overflow sight for the US Open Sectionals, and it can get pretty difficult when the greens get that quick.  I do like the course however, it's pretty fun to play.

Mark - Thanks for the welcome...we seem to run into each other on multiple sites!

Mike - I have to say, you picked one of my next underrated choices in Pine Needles.  I consider it highly underrated as it is a great test of golf on a great piece of land.  I'm glad someone else feels that way.



My next entry will come later today and will include courses from CT and NJ.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2013, 09:48:36 PM by Parker Reeves »

John Foley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Underrated
« Reply #30 on: May 01, 2013, 10:26:48 AM »
Leatherstocking - Cooperstown NY

The Captains - Cape Cod MA
Integrity in the moment of choice

Parker Reeves

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Underrated
« Reply #31 on: May 01, 2013, 11:31:57 AM »
My next two courses are Yale and Somerset Hills.

Yale is a great MacDonald, Raynor, and Banks design that get's some great "press" on this website but not as much from the rest of the golf world.  Complete with a Road, Cape, Biarritz, Alps, and Redan, Yale is a fantastic place to play if you are ever near the area.  The Biarritz is a special hole that won't soon be forgotten after play.  At 235 yards, some crazy things can happen on the hole.  I played with my father who hit driver and made a nice little 2...I was jealous after my 3 putt bogey!

Somerset Hills is another course that I feel is well-appreciated on GCA but vastly underrated outside of our website.  I believe that SHCC is much better than a 95 ranking given by Golf Digest.  This is solely my opinion, but I think the routing and layout that Tillinghast did in Bernardsville is quite excellent.  Several, if not all of the holes stick in my memory, but Redan, Despair, and Happy Valley (2, 12, and 15) are a 3 of the best holes I have ever had the fortune to play.  I love Somerset and have to say, the logo is one of my favorites in golf!

Mark McKeever

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Underrated
« Reply #32 on: May 01, 2013, 11:36:58 AM »
Parker,

Somerset Hills gets much more credit on Golfweeks Classic List.  Sitting nicely at #27.

Mark
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

Parker Reeves

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Underrated
« Reply #33 on: May 01, 2013, 11:50:50 AM »
I agree, Golfweek does give it more credit on its Classic list.  I just feel that it's a great course regardless of when it was built.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Underrated
« Reply #34 on: May 01, 2013, 12:44:44 PM »
Two Michigan golf courses come to mind when I start thinking of which tracks get little attention on a national level.

Kingsley Club - A little slice of heaven that gets alot of support on this site but is probably one of the best kept secrets in the U.S.  I have played the course twice so my knowledge is limited but Kingsley always seems to be in perfect condition.  The course played firm and fast and the greens were so pure.  Additionally, the remoteness of Kingsley really adds a uniqueness of the club.  Golf simply doesnt get any better than the Kingsley Club

Black Lake Golf Club - Oh boy....I'm going to take a beating for this suggestion as I know many people on this site are not fond of Rees Jones  ;D Black Lake is one of the most georgous courses I have ever played.  The conditioning is always in tip top shape and the course provides a unique challenge each time you play it.  Tight fairways paired with elevated greens make this a true test for any level golfer.  Additionally, the fairway bunkers and rural feel really seperate this course from others that I have played.  Furthermore I was pleased with the fact that Black Lake is very playable for women as my wife and I have a wonderful time during our last round in Onaway.  Black Lake is a wonderful track and if your ever in Northern Michigan it deserves a look......yes even if Rees Jones built it  8)

Sticking with Michigan, I think Grosse Ile is very under-rated.  I have never seen it on a rating list. 

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Jim Nugent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Underrated
« Reply #35 on: May 01, 2013, 01:10:59 PM »
Jim,
Westwood started out in Glendale at the site of the current Westborough CC, designed by Tom Bendelow (1908).  Bendelow also designed it's neighboring course, Algonquin GC, in 1903.  The leadership over time felt a move was necessary to develop a new course and the site on Conway Road was chosen in 1928.  Little known Cleveland architect and golf pro Harold Paddock designed the new course.
Westborough went through several eras of going public and then private again, sold some land and became the rather tightly packed, short course that it is today.  It is famous for being the home club of Jim Holtgrieve, current Walker Cup Captain.
Westwood CC, at it's current location, has hosted two Western Opens, one Women's Western Open (then a major) and supposedly turned down a PGA Championship and US Open.
I put it just behind SLCC and Old Warson as my favorite layout in town.

David, I played Westborough (front 9 only) a few times in high school matches decades ago.  Jim Holtgrieve's career hadn't taken off yet, though he was well known locally. 

I take it from what you're saying that when Westwood was there, the club had more land and a different layout.  Curious to learn more about the course back then.  The tough hole on the layout I played was the long par 4 -- number 5? -- that ran along Adams.     

Westwood in 1970 measured 6600-6700 yards IIRC.  Is it longer now?  Any room to stretch out, and/or interest/need to do so? 

Why and when did Westwood turn down the U.S. Open? 


David Amarnek

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Underrated
« Reply #36 on: May 01, 2013, 01:54:15 PM »
Jim,
When Westwood CC was on the Glendale site, as I understand it, there was indeed somewhat more land.  When we moved to the Conway Road address and Westborough took over, they had to sell some land to that church and religious school adjacent to the current property due to financial concerns.  I don't know exactly how that impacted the current routing/design.
I played it a few times and never heard the word "fore" uttered so much as over there.  Very compact!
As for turning down the US Open, I'm told it was for the 1969 event that was held at Champions GC in Houston.  The USGA apparently wanted another event in St. Louis and Westwood was approached, but turned it down.  The membership did not want the notoriety and seems to be very content with that to this day.
Westwood is just over 6800 yards from the back.  Aside from removing a number of trees and re-doing a few bunkers and greens, little has changed from when you were in town.  We own quite a large property and originally the course was built with 27 holes.  With the depression, that changed.  Now, in addition to our "championship" course we have a 9 hole "short" course with 7 par 3's and 2 short par 4's.
We are just starting an archives/library and will have a consultant come in and help sort things out.
Next time you are in STL, let me know and I'll take you around.
David

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Underrated
« Reply #37 on: May 01, 2013, 06:26:50 PM »
I agree on Kingsley.  I think it is a Top 100 World contender.

 
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Donnie Beck

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Underrated
« Reply #38 on: May 01, 2013, 09:28:11 PM »
CC of Fairfield, Garden City, Newport, Maidstone, and Seminole are all better than most people give them credit for.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2013, 09:32:06 PM by Donnie Beck »

Jonathan Decker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Underrated
« Reply #39 on: May 02, 2013, 08:18:39 PM »
After a recent trip to Charlotte, NC I would have to put Carolina Golf Club on this list.  A low-key golf club with great vistas on some rolling terrain.  A Ross that was completely redone in the last six years, with the first two holes being moved completely.  Similar to another Ross in town in Charlotte CC, as they both feature great views of the Charlotte skyline, albeit from opposite sides of town.  Well worth a look if making a trip to the Queen City.  Great walk and a friendly staff. 

Jonathan Decker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Underrated
« Reply #40 on: May 02, 2013, 08:24:37 PM »
College Fields Golf Club, East Lansing, MI

Port Huron Golf Club, Port Huron, MI

Milwaukee Country Club, River Hills, WI

Mountain Lakes, FL


Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Underrated
« Reply #41 on: May 02, 2013, 08:42:18 PM »
Two clubs that are both excellent but do not get as much credit as they should are the Members Club at Four Streams outside DC and Musgrove Mill in Clinton, SC.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Underrated
« Reply #42 on: May 02, 2013, 09:05:00 PM »
Perhaps due to it being the poster child for the CCFAD era,
perhaps due to its architect being named Jones, perhaps due to its stupid name, and perhaps due to rude prior management,

Long Island National is quite underrated.
a pretty good golf course
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Mark McKeever

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Underrated
« Reply #43 on: May 03, 2013, 09:03:15 AM »
CC of Fairfield, Garden City, Newport, Maidstone, and Seminole are all better than most people give them credit for.

Donnie, is this a joke?  I think all of these courses above get A LOT OF CREDIT.

Mark
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

John Scharon

Re: Underrated
« Reply #44 on: May 03, 2013, 10:38:35 AM »
Parker,

Hello from another new participant who's happy to be here.  Thanks, again, to Ran for letting a long-time lurker become a first-time poster.  Some of your names look familiar to me from a certain website I help moderate for putter collectors (reflog74).

To the point, aside from vacations, the vast majority of my 40 years of golf have been spent in and around northern Ohio.  Here are 3 courses in my neck of the woods that are underrated, IMHO.

1.  Brookside CC, Canton, OH.  A Ross gem that plays down, up and across a big hill.  Great terrain.  Fast bent grass greens with big humps and hollows.  Even better since an Oakmont-like tree removal project several years back.  

2.  Sand Ridge, part of the Mayfield Sand Ridge CC, Chardon, OH.  A new style course by Tom Fazio, built next to and by the owner of the Best Sand and Gravel quarry.  Only golf is spoken here.  No pool, tennis.  Large, double ended practice range.  Again, great terrain and sandy substrate so it drains like a charm and is always in terrific shape.  A stay in one of the 3 "cabins" is a real treat.

3.  Red Hawk Run, Findlay, OH.  Arthur Hills design that blends so naturally into rolling farmland.  Linksy, in feel, and nearly always windy.  Several dogleg holes present ranks of bunkers on the inside of the turn, challenging you to play more or less aggressively to set up an easier next shot.  Course is public and an incredible value.  A few houses (less than the developer envisioned, I'm sure), but none intrude.

Underrated Honorable Mention:  Almost anything designed by former Hills associate Brian Huntley.  I searched for Brian's name here, and couldn't find it.  Brian has designed and renovated many Ohio courses, and I would recommend The Quarry, E. Canton, OH, Links at Firestone Farms, near Youngstown, OH, and Deer Ridge, near Mansfield, OH, as some of his best.

Again, thanks for having me, and I look forward to "talking" to you all.

John

 
« Last Edit: May 03, 2013, 12:03:30 PM by John Scharon »

Donnie Beck

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Underrated
« Reply #45 on: May 03, 2013, 11:10:55 AM »
CC of Fairfield, Garden City, Newport, Maidstone, and Seminole are all better than most people give them credit for.

Donnie, is this a joke?  I think all of these courses above get A LOT OF CREDIT.

Mark

???????????????? CC of Fairfield and Newport didn't make Golf Digest's Top 100. Maidstone comes it at #100, Garden City at #55, and Seminole #13. All underrated in my book !!!!!

Mark Bourgeois

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Underrated
« Reply #46 on: May 03, 2013, 12:32:59 PM »
Move Seminole up to 10th, Donnie?   ;D

Actually, then you gotta put #2 even higher. Give Pebble the ol' heave ho.
Charlotte. Daniel. Olivia. Josephine. Ana. Dylan. Madeleine. Catherine. Chase. Jesse. James. Grace. Emilie. Jack. Noah. Caroline. Jessica. Benjamin. Avielle. Allison.

Mark McKeever

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Underrated
« Reply #47 on: May 03, 2013, 05:54:58 PM »
Donnie,

You state that most people don't give the mentioned courses enough credit which I didn't agree with.  Wasn't thinking GD rankings.

Mark
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

Wayne Wiggins, Jr.

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Underrated
« Reply #48 on: May 03, 2013, 06:46:55 PM »
Parker -

You wrote "If it's a course no one on this site has heard of but you, maybe this will awaken us to a great new place to trek towards some fine golf." 

So i'm not sure if my list is for this group... since almost everyone one here has probably heard of these (i'd imagine this group has probably heard of almost all courses!).  But here goes...

Applebrook - One of Gil Hanse's original designs.  Offers a fresh option in Phila. area among the other giants in the district.

Omaha CC - a true midwestern gem.  Although, i'm curious to see what has been tweaked of Keith Foster's redo in preparation for this year's Senior US Open.

Old Warson - I like this one.  Same look and feel as Bellerive, but not as much a "ball-buster".  Like most courses, it would benefit from some weird, tree-eating disease that would remove about 2/3 of those strangling the fairways and playing angles.

Pasatiempo - Yes, you read that correctly.  I played recently, on two separate occassions, with guys who are pretty well traveled in terms of golf and neither of them had EVEN HEARD OF PASATIEMPO before playing it.  And, of course they were absolutely blown away by it.

Donnie Beck

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Underrated
« Reply #49 on: May 03, 2013, 10:01:48 PM »
Mark,

Fair enough...  Would you agree they are under-rated by golf digest standard?