Is There a Better Playoff Hole than #10 at Augusta National

[Brent Hutto]

I think there's a good reason no sudden death playoff has ever gone past the second playoff hole in the Masters. The tenth hole is the ideal sudden death hole. As we saw yesterday, birdie is definitely in play for a player who hits a perrfect second shot. But bogey is darned near as likely as par. And the tee shot requires something other than banging a driver as far as possible, there is a legitimate choice of clubs to be used.

Is there a better hole used for playoffs in tournament golf? Are there any holes that would make better playoff holes if they were used?

Maybe that hole at Riviera is somewhat similar in quality. But I'd think it much more likely to have a par-par or par-par-par outcome in a two or three way playoff.

[Rich Goodale]

1st at Dornoch.  Driveable green for the big hitter but a 4 at best if the drive goes astray.  Play safely and you have a seemingly simple wedge for a birdie, but if you are anything but inch perfect with the wedge you have a 15+ foot putt which could easily be a three putt.

Best of all, however, is that if you halve the hole you have to play the 2nd, where anything imagineable by even the greatest golfers in the world can happen......

[Mark Bourgeois]

Brent,

Playoffs used to start at the 10th. The 11th for a long time was the "decider hole." See for example Mize's chip-in.

EDIT: I guess the question is how many playoffs in the old format got past 10 -- AND how that figure compares to sudden-death playoffs on other courses. Maybe lots of sudden deathers end on the first playoff hole.

[David_Elvins]

It's a tough hole.  In 20 attempts in playoffs, Scott's was the first birdie.

1 birdie, 12 pars, 6 bogeys, 1 double bogey

Faldo and Hoch halved in 5s.  Mike Wier's 5 won him the hole. 

[Thomas Dai]

It's such a shame that time/daylight restrictions , I guess dictated by TV, means that The Masters is decides by sudden death rather than say by the 4-5 hole play-off system used at The Open. I know that The Masters has used sudden-death for several decades, but I can't help thinking that a 4-5 hole play-off somehow has more merit to it.

All the best.

[Phil McDade]

Brent:

I'd always prefer they'd find some way to cart the players down to the tee at 13 -- the best par 5 in tournament conditions I've seen.

The drive is harder and has more risk (and options) than 10, the approach has more options than 10, and the green can yield easy birdie putts and very demanding two putts, depending on the pin and location of the approach shot (albiet true of probably every green there, but 13 particularly so). Peril and opportunity all over the place.

Playoffs are essentially match-play, and 13 has always struck me as maybe the best match-play hole designed, ever.

[Jud_T]

Brent:

I'd always prefer they'd find some way to cart the players down to the tee at 13 -- the best par 5 in tournament conditions I've seen.

The drive is harder and has more risk (and options) than 10, the approach has more options than 10, and the green can yield easy birdie putts and very demanding two putts, depending on the pin and location of the approach shot (albiet true of probably every green there, but 13 particularly so). Peril and opportunity all over the place.

Playoffs are essentially match-play, and 13 has always struck me as maybe the best match-play hole designed, ever.

This is a good call.  Imagine if they played 13, 14 & 15 for a playoff?  I imagine the logistics of crowd control make this unlikely.

[Tom ORourke]

It gets dark in Augusta by 8:00 so a multiple hole playoff is not possible unless they start earlier, thus getting lower tv ratings. Not going to happen. I just wish they would start on 10 and keep going. It is a shame that we will never see anyone have to attempt the Larry Mize shot, or get down to 12. That might be pretty cool.

[Keith Doleshel]

Jud,
I was thinking the same thing.  Actually would prefer them play Amen Corner for the playoff.  Imagine the tournament coming down to #13 will everything hanging in the balance.  Agree that crowd control would have to be one of the bigger issues (as well as lack of daylight, one of these years a 3+ hole playoff is bound to happen.)

[Carl Nichols]

Jud,
I was thinking the same thing.  Actually would prefer them play Amen Corner for the playoff.  Imagine the tournament coming down to #13 will everything hanging in the balance.  Agree that crowd control would have to be one of the bigger issues (as well as lack of daylight, one of these years a 3+ hole playoff is bound to happen.)

Agree that playing Amen Corner would be amazing, but also logistically difficult, so seems unlikely ever to happen. 

[Sean Leary]

Brent:

I'd always prefer they'd find some way to cart the players down to the tee at 13 -- the best par 5 in tournament conditions I've seen.

The drive is harder and has more risk (and options) than 10, the approach has more options than 10, and the green can yield easy birdie putts and very demanding two putts, depending on the pin and location of the approach shot (albiet true of probably every green there, but 13 particularly so). Peril and opportunity all over the place.

Playoffs are essentially match-play, and 13 has always struck me as maybe the best match-play hole designed, ever.

This is a good call.  Imagine if they played 13, 14 & 15 for a playoff?  I imagine the logistics of crowd control make this unlikely.

Patron Patrol, please....

[Sven Nilsen]

Imagine the scene if it finished on 12.  No patrons anywhere near the green, just a long camera shot of the celebratory champion and caddy, with his opponent waiting nearby with hat in hand to offer congratulations.

As an aside, the sportsmanship between Cabrera and Scott during the playoff was outstanding.  The look back thumbs up from Angel was one of the coolest moments in the history of tournament golf.

[Carl Rogers]

I started  a thread about the multiple hole strike play play-off option , not too well received so far.

[Tim_Cronin]

If you kick the starting times back a half-hour, you can have a four-hole playoff. Make it 10-11-12-13, sudden-death after that.

But TV ratings may play a part these days. Sunday's was a 10.2/21 overnight, with the peak 13.4/25 from 7-7:30 p.m. ET, the first half-hour of Sunday prime time. No other golf rating this year will approach it.

[Jason Thurman]

Why do we need another four hole playoff at a major? It takes too long, is less intense, and is already the format at two. I like the contrast of having one 18 hole playoff and one sudden death.

Sudden death is much more dramatic and makes every shot suspenseful. And I'm not sure it matters which holes they play at Augusta. Most of the back 9 has the potential for hugely different scores from two competitors on a single hole.

[Tom ORourke]

The option for a multiple hole playoff is to cart the players to every shot. Hit the tee shot, hop in carts, zip down to the ball. You could play 3 holes in 20-25 minutes. I remember seeing Cabrera in a European event where they did this because it was getting dark. The event is over, 72 holes are in, why not finish up quickly? I know this is not going to happen but is the only way to do a multiple hole Masters playoff.

[Tim_Cronin]

The option for a multiple hole playoff is to cart the players to every shot. Hit the tee shot, hop in carts, zip down to the ball. You could play 3 holes in 20-25 minutes. I remember seeing Cabrera in a European event where they did this because it was getting dark. The event is over, 72 holes are in, why not finish up quickly? I know this is not going to happen but is the only way to do a multiple hole Masters playoff.

They can walk. No reason not to. They played two holes yesterday in about 30 minutes. More the tee times back a half-hour, you have time for four holes. Then take your chances.

I don't care either way, but it's a potential option, and likely has been considered and dismissed.

[John McCarthy]

The playoff that was decided last year at Riviera no. 10 was pretty exciting. 

Imagine standing on the tee with the pressure of The Masters and thinking "What the heck am I going to do with this?"

[Bill Shotzbarger]

I'm not sure it's even the best 10th hole used in playoffs....

Riviera anyone? Way more risk-reward. We were lauding it only a couple months ago.

[V. Kmetz]

It's a damn good hole, but others like Riviera 10, are a equally good or a tick better.  What does Pebble use for the Clambake?

I'll take anything I can get more than Sudden Death, but can anyone answer - why there is not a Monday 18 hole playoff anymore for the Majors, except the US Open.

Me, I want to see 36, but I acknowledge that might be exhausting and poor golf the result.

What could possibly be the downside to these events having a Monday playoff anymore?  Just charge ticket holders $10 or the value of a one-day tournament ticket upon presentation of their Sunday ticket and off we go.  There's still plenty of merchandise left, people from out of town who had to leave would find a healthy market from those remaining behind or local interest.  I assume there's still a great deal of beer in the keg and hot dogs in the fridge. And if there's not one now, I'm sure a contingency plan can be developed to retain a staff of volunteers/marshals etc.  i mean, after all, what do they do in the Open, the PGA when darkness should preclude a sudden death or 4-hole result.

cheers

vk

[Jon Wiggett]

Like Rich G I would suggest something like the first at Dornoch. Indeed although I expect to be derided for saying so I think the 10th at the Belfry is a far better playoff hole.

Jon

[Josh Tarble]

10 may be one of the best holes on the course for a sudden death playoff.  It takes two great shots to have a good chance for birdie, but missing slightly on one of those shots doesn't automatically bring bogey into play.  11 and 12 skew so heavily to the risk side, I think there would be a lot of par-pars and a lot of just limiting the mistakes.

[Brent Hutto]

10 may be one of the best holes on the course for a sudden death playoff.  It takes two great shots to have a good chance for birdie, but missing slightly on one of those shots doesn't automatically bring bogey into play.  11 and 12 skew so heavily to the risk side, I think there would be a lot of par-pars and a lot of just limiting the mistakes.

My thinking exactly, Josh. More so 12 than 11 but true in both cases I suspect.

[Jim_Kennedy]

I'll take anything I can get more than Sudden Death, but can anyone answer - why there is not a Monday 18 hole playoff anymore for the Majors, except the US Open.

I believe the #1 reason for shorter playoffs is $, many, many $$$.

Reportedly, it cost the USGA around 500k (roughly what Westood took home for 3rd place) for the Tiger/Rocco Monday playoff.

I can't see any other organization willing to 'lose' that much to establish a winner. 

[Mike Nuzzo]

I'm with Phil as I am a fan of 13 and think that would make the best playoff hole
Bold options on both shots