Gary Player - Sour grapes over Olympic design job

[Bob_Huntley]

We once heard Gary Player at a Pro-am getting after his caddie a bit from the putting green to the first tee. It made us laugh.

"Cumin Jinny, git to kip up.  Itz mis beh all that kikka killa and wit' bread in yer dit."

Translation:

C'mon Johnny, got to keep up!  It must be all that Coca-cola and white bread in your diet."

cheers

vk

VK,

I am not sure if that was Player, as he never had an accent like that even back in the late fifties. I've known Gary for some fifty years and he has always been diplomatic but he failed the test this time.  Be that as it may and in spite of some aggressive interpretations of the rules, he has given pleasure to many and has done more for race relations around the world than some Nobel Laureates.

Bob

[Matthew Rose]

Humility is a word that I have never associated with Gary Player. But in all fairness to him, I'm sure it was always difficult having to fight for the golf spotlight with Nicklaus and Palmer around.

[Pat Burke]

Gary Player designed one of the few courses in the world that I dislike so much I would turn down a free round to play. True story.

Hey!
I've played Pacific Club?Bella Colina too!!!!

[archie_struthers]

  ::



 Gary was a great great player, but I've yet to play or see a golf course design he did that was first rate .  Wonderful ambassador of the game , but haven't seen much good work or heard of same .

[Will Lozier]

Time to lighten up this Player thread with my lone experience with him, this posted before but will be new to many of you:

I've had one GP experience and it was a beaut.  2003 SR PGA Champ at Aronimink, 1st round, I get him, Floyd, and Kite to score for.  I had heard that GP could be interesting after a round in the scorers tent, and I was ready.  RF had played poorly and was outta there before I could sit down and wasn't interested in triple-checking his score w/ mine.  TK was super polite, and after reading off the scores, again thanked me for volunteering.  Then GP proceeds to have me read the scores for the front, then the back, then the back again, then the front again, the front in reverse, back in reverse, then from memory he recalls each score himself, etc, etc.  TK has decided to stay in the trailer and experience the whole thing.  When finally done checking his score every way under creation, GP goes on this long speech to Kite about why he does this relating to being DQed in a GGO round years ago.  "So Tom, the last thing I do before leaving the scorer's tent is make darn sure I haven't signed for a wrong score", he says.  Then Tom quips, "Well, that is very nice Gary.  But I would suggest the last thing you do today before leaving the scorer's tent is zip up your fly".  GP had gone to the player's restroom right after the round and had forgotten to zip up.  Priceless.

Love it!!!!!

[Craig Sweet]

When you get to Players age, and with his accomplishments in his sport, you are ready, and expecting, to take a victory lap.  I don't care if you're a politician, a sports legend, a movie director...whatever...it happens....and until you are old enough, and accomplished enough, you won't understand.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Craig,

Hey, my 90 year old mother goes around saying people should respect her because she's old, and seems to be losing her filter.  Nothing new for older folks, legendary sports guy or not!

That said, Gary Player was well known for always saying the right thing, even in tough situations.  I guess this goes to show that old age really does affect everyone equally.

Since its a Player thread, I will share my two experiences with Gary.  Played with him in a pro am, and the getting on his caddie story rings true.  Also, got on his playing partners, including me!  I recall getting a few very public putting and chipping lessons from him.  Unfailingly polite, but it was still a bit heavy handed for a guy trying to reach out in a pro am.

Second, I got a call years ago from his organization saying they were considering buying an existing design business to open a western office.  I went there for two days of cordial discussion, but we couldn't come to agreement.  Of course, I am not sure that was really my goal and probably never would have. 

We did have some moments though.  I showed them the plans for Opryland, and say what you want about the course, it was built very close to the plan.  They didn't seem to think the plans were realistic.  They were also early adopters of CAD, and showed me some of theirs, and I noticed about 20 acres of fw draining down to a swale about five feet in front of the green, and then diverted to the cart path side, which I knew was going to cause a mess, but they didn't seem to thrilled with me "graciously" pointing that out.  I also pointed out that while they showed contours and grading all along that fw, they really only changed grade a foot or two everywhere, and hadn't drawn a cross section, which I thought would still make the ole blind, even after grading.  I felt it was a waste, but they were clearly in the "big boy architects grade everywhere and that is just how it is mode.

Not sour grapes, because I am not sure I wanted to work for Gary Player, even as much as I respect him and his record.  But, I do recall those discussions to this day.  A great experience to talk architecture with him, but at the end of the day, we agreed to disagree.

[Mike Hendren]

Player has a history of making an attention-getting controversial statement just before The Masters.  Perhaps its his way of trying to remain relevant in today's game.  While a legitimate legend, he is not as beloved as Jack and Arnie in the states. 

Bogey

[Sam Morrow]

It's okay, in 2016 Player will go play the course, I've already prepared his statement. I think this will be close.

"I've traveled over a million miles in my life and I believe this is the finest golf course I've ever seen. Gil Hanse is the finest architect I've ever seen and Brazil is the finest place I've ever visited."

[Jeff_Brauer]

Bogey,

That thought occurred to me as well.  Of course, this was not in the states, so maybe Gary thought that his international presence was more valuable to the committee, and frankly, I think some others might have, too.  On the other hand, if you are playing the beloved tour pro card, and were number 3 of your era but are going against No. 1 of your era, and possibly all time, it wouldn't seem that he would score the points for even that, but Jack would.

This is a whole different subject, but the idea of being beloved vs. your actual playing record is an interesting one.  Arnie more beloved than Jack, with lesser record, Phil perhaps more beloved than Tiger, with lesser record, Snead more beloved than Hogan, etc.  Gary was respected, but I never got the feeling he was a loveable guy to root for.

Sam,

Pretty close.  It will probably add the qualifier of "finest place I've been this week" or some such.  He is good at that.  On the other hand, given his history of generally being gracious, I am sure he will find good things to say about everyone and everything.  Or, as my doormat says for convenience,  "Happy Everything, Everybody!"

[Tom_Doak]

I think everyone who didn't win the commission was very disappointed.  It was an expensive and time-consuming process, and I don't think there was anyone among the final eight who didn't think they had some sort of inside track to the job.  If you didn't think so, you were pretty naive to even enter the thing.  We all expected that politics would be a part of the decision, but many are puzzled how the politics could have been in favor of Gil, whom they barely know.

I wish we had all gotten to see everyone's entries, but the rules of the competition forbade that, to protect the committee's choice from second-guessing.  I'll bet that every designer still thinks they did the best design for the course -- that is the nature of who we are and what we do.  But it's unusual not to be able to comment, and to have to listen to others claim that they understand the result. All we're ALLOWED to say is ... well, ellipses.  So I don't see how you can bash Gary Player for that.  If you weren't there, you don't know what you're talking about.

Bottom line, I don't think any of the big-name professional firms were going to be chosen for the job, because of the nature of the job.  Those firms like to think they're the best designers, but most of them know deep down that they are being paid for the brand name ... and The Olympic Games do not need to buy a brand name.  That may have been a shock to Gary Player, but not to me.

[Randy Thompson]

There were so many hands in the soup or the cake that for me the question was who was going to cut the cake. I thought it would be the money behind behind the project but as things progress I am seeing and hearing how much involved and how much power the PGA tour has in this project. If this is true, I can see how this would favor Gill because of past involvement in a TPC project.

[Mike Hendren]

There were so many hands in the soup or the cake that for me the question was who was going to cut the cake.

The Average White Band, who else?

[Lester George]

Bogey!!!  LMAO!  AWB in the house!

[Jim Nugent]

There were so many hands in the soup or the cake that for me the question was who was going to cut the cake.

The Average White Band, who else?

Yes, and now all the archies who did not win the bid are just going to have to Pick Up the Pieces. 

For me, Garland pointed up the most ironic thing Gary said.  Complaining about politicking -- right after he brags about his politicking?   

[Colin Macqueen]

Gentlemen,

And AWB originated in my native town of Dundee, just on the outskirts of fine golfing country, whilst I was a (failing) student there!
Duncan of Jordanstone Art College is where a couple of them hung out.
This art college was a mecca for degenerates … just ask Fat Baldy Drummer!!

Cheers Colin

[Niall C]

Final comment from me on the subject (promise !) but was at a golf dinner last year and the speaker was an old pro, recently retired. He recounted the story of playing a practice round with GP at the British Seniors which was being played that year on a well known and highly rated links. GP spent the whole round slagging of the course, complaining about the blind shots, the bounce on the fairways, the conditioning etc etc. At the end of the round, just as they were coming off the course, GP spots several R&A guys talking to committee men from the host club. GP makes a bee-line for the group and starts gushing about how good the course is, how the condition is wonderful and all delivered without one word of criticism.

I suspect that was the type of previous experience that he thought would get him the design job for Rio.

Niall

Another side to the story:

A former golf partner and a then outstanding amateur in Columbus related to me what a great man Player was.  He was a young boy when he was assigned Player's bag at the PGA championship.  And though he was familiar with golf, he was a neophyte as a caddie and had barely the size to carry the bag and keep up.  Among his favorite stories was the time early on when he had cleaned Player's ball on the green and was about to toss it back to him.  Player doesn't put his hands up, instead motioning the caddie over, and privately, softly saying something to the effect "Tom, never throw the ball to me.  My hands are my living and we can't risk injuring them.  Always place the ball and clubs in my hand gently."

Tom grew up to be an emotional, somewhat hot-headed guy who was unafraid to opine candidly about people and things.  He had only good things to say about Gary Player, including that though Player didn't finish near the top, nor that as a caddie he was little more than a mule, he was paid very well, well above the then going scale.

I would put Gary Player's contribution to golf, to his country, and to physical fitness up with anyone's.  Great advice from Mr. Ross.  Gary Player needs not apologize.         

Lou

Nice post. I think most of us have different sides to us. The retired pro who told the story about GP at the Seniors Open clearly thought that GP was being two faced while a more generous interpretation might have been he was being polite. Depends on your viewpoint I suppose.

Niall

[Dan_Callahan]

Of all the big name player-architects out there, I wonder if GP might not actually be the worst. If you take the guys like Nicklaus, Norman, Weiskopf, Crenshaw, Faxon, Love, etc. and look at the ones who have more than 25 courses under their belts, does GP have the least impressive portfolio of that group? I don't know the answer to this ... just a question. But the courses of his I've seen have been terrible, and when I look at his other design credits, there isn't a single course that jumps out at me as a place I'd love to play.

[Neil_Crafter]

Here's a little Player story for you.
The scene is Kooyonga Golf Club, Adelaide, Australia. 1965 Australian Open. Player is drawn to play with my uncle Murray Crafter, in twos. Murray was one of the best players ever in South Australia and won numerous SA Opens and SA PGA titles. Walking off the first tee Player says to Murray "I won't be talking today Murray, I have a job of work to do". Murray offers to pick up his ball and just mark Player's card to which Player responded "that won't be necessary man" or words to that effect. Player then started with seven straight threes on his card (that's eagle, eagle on the first two holes alone!) on his way to shooting 62, and a championship total of 264 which was 28 under. He also shot another 62. My father played with Nicklaus in the last round. The Australian Opens had some pretty good fields back then.

[Tim_Weiman]

To build on one of Tom Doak's comments, I am confused by what Gary Player meant by "politics".

Does anyone know what he thought favored Gil and worked against him?

[Tony Ristola]

http://www.timescolonist.com/sports/gary-player-expresses-disappointment-over-missing-out-on-rio-s-olympic-golf-course-design-1.102610

Quoting: 
The thing that upset me for not getting it was the fact that I've been to Brazil so many times, I've played in tournaments here, met so many people, and I thought that would count," Player said. "But it didn't. There is obviously a lot of politics in these things, so you move on."

The nine-time major winner said he didn't want to go into details of what kind of politics might have kept him from winning the bid, saying "you must never be a cry-baby when you lose." He said he felt confident after meeting with all those involved in the selection process.

"We were very optimistic. We did a very good presentation, but there's politics in everything now," he said. "You just have to be maybe more clever, I don't know. We spent a lot of money, a lot of our own money."

Player said he thought it played into his favour the fact that he has travelled the world as a player.

"I've been travelling for 60 years and I've been to all of these countries that are involved in the Olympic Games. I just felt that I would get it," the 77-year-old South African said. "And they give it to a man who's... well, I don't want to say anything, I just felt it was an advantage for us. That's what I thought. But I was wrong, move on."

Perhaps they wanted someone who is a golf architect instead of a figurehead.

Visiting and playing golf in Brazil should have been considered, probably was, and if they did they still thought otherwise. I'm surprised his firm was invited... I didn't realize they were.

[Tony Ristola]

I think he meant that Gil is less able to inspire a generation of Brazilian kids to take up golf than he would be, or Jack, or Greg or whoever. I still think it's a dig personally.

I don't think they are able to inspire a generation of golfers any more than Tony Lema would. The golfers in 2016 will provide the real inspiration. Their landing the project would be nice for the politicians to rub elbows and be photographed with, but not a whole lot more.

How much time would Gary Player or other McSignatures spend in Brazil? What great benefits would their firms bring over the long haul? A measurable difference? I doubt it. Instead of yet another McSignature project, Rio 2016 will get an honest product, an authentic product; the product of daily care... love. Over the long haul that's a far greater and lasting story.

And...if Gary Player's concern is to inspire a generation of young Brazilians to take up the game... hop in your jet and Just Do It.

[Steve Okula]

I think he meant that Gil is less able to inspire a generation of Brazilian kids to take up golf than he would be, or Jack, or Greg or whoever. I still think it's a dig personally.

I don't think they are able to inspire a generation of golfers any more than Tony Lema would. The golfers in 2016 will provide the real inspiration. Their landing the project would be nice for the politicians to rub elbows and be photographed with, but not a whole lot more.

How much time would Gary Player or other McSignatures spend in Brazil? What great benefits would their firms bring over the long haul? A measurable difference? I doubt it. Instead of yet another McSignature project, Rio 2016 will get an honest product, an authentic product; the product of daily care... love. Over the long haul that's a far greater and lasting story.

And...if Gary Player's concern is to inspire a generation of young Brazilians to take up the game... hop in your jet and Just Do It.

I don't think Player keeps a jet of his own. He has clients charter one for him.

[Tom_Doak]

I don't think Player keeps a jet of his own. He has clients charter one for him.

Well, that is the more sustainable approach. 

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