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Thomas Dai

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Size of the maintenance crew at your home course
« on: April 03, 2013, 11:39:58 AM »
What is the size of the maintenance crew on your home course or the course you play most often? Just the course maintenance guys/gals though, not the total staff at the facility.

I'm interested to see how crew size fluctuates around the globe, obviously depending on the climate, type of course, expectations, etc.

So,

1) How many full-time guys/gals and how many holes do they maintain - 18, 27, 36 etc?

2) How many part-time or seasonal guys and for how long?

3) Oh, and what sort of course is it - parkland/meadowland, desert, heathland, marshland, traditional links, modern links clone?

To get things started, at my usual course, an 18-hole UK parkland, we have a team of 6 full time staff plus 1 man who works only half the normal hours (ie does part-time).

All the best

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Size of the maintenance crew at your home course
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2013, 04:22:49 PM »
Ours is a little smaller than most.

They average about 5'6".

Shivas, that's funny, even if it was co opted from "Caddy Shack"

Thomas,

In the U.S. staffs/crews are exponentially larger.


Brent Hutto

Re: Size of the maintenance crew at your home course
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2013, 04:29:01 PM »
27 holes, open year round. Greenskeeping staff of 8 with ideally several extra during summer, budget allowing.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2013, 05:44:48 PM by Brent Hutto »

RJ_Daley

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Re: Size of the maintenance crew at your home course
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2013, 04:47:25 PM »
To the best of my current knowledge (notwithstanding the last 4 - 5 year trend towards austere operations) I think our County run facility has 4 full time and fluctuates between 12-18 part-timers in season.  Most part-timers are not only part time seasonal, but have a mix of part-time hours through the week.  Some seasonal are 40 hour weeks, and some are part-time hourly students and such that are 12-40 hours fluctuating.

I believe the full-time year around consists of a first mechanic and assistant, and an assistant super (who has as much credential as the super in the turf area) and the super himself, who is a county department head status and does all liaison and policy-procedures-budget with the county board besides the overall management of not only the turf operation, but actually is supervisor of the whole operation from F&B concessionaire to the pro-shop oversight.  I think he leaves the pro-shop to the pro, in a good managment sense of allowing that pro to do his thing-but he does have the ultimate authority.   I think he has a bit more power and field of supervision than most traditional supers.   My assessment is that the system works pretty well, with the exception that one always has to worry about know-nothing county board members and park-rec committee members meddling in issues they are near stupid about....  ::) :-\
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

David Bartman

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Re: Size of the maintenance crew at your home course
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2013, 05:50:52 PM »
21 full time

18 holes - parkland 120 acres, 110 irrigated, although we have a plan to drop that to around 85-90.  

We don't hire part time help , our climate provides for year round golf

« Last Edit: April 08, 2013, 08:00:03 PM by David Bartman »
Still need to play Pine Valley!!

Bill Brightly

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Re: Size of the maintenance crew at your home course
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2013, 08:15:09 PM »
Interesting that the US country club guys failed to respond until David did... We blush at our numbers. I would guess that 15-18 is the average for nice country clubs, 20-25 per 18 holes at the upper end clubs.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Size of the maintenance crew at your home course
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2013, 12:01:11 AM »
Bill, I indicated that the number was exponentially greater

David,

I'm very curious, could you outline how and over what period of time you intend to go from 110 to 85 acres under irrigation ?

Also, what were the driving forces in moving in that direction ?

Thanks

Greg Chambers

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Re: Size of the maintenance crew at your home course
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2013, 12:04:19 AM »
Interesting that the US country club guys failed to respond until David did... We blush at our numbers. I would guess that 15-18 is the average for nice country clubs, 20-25 per 18 holes at the upper end clubs.

higher
"It's good sportsmanship to not pick up lost golf balls while they are still rolling.”

Craig Sweet

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Re: Size of the maintenance crew at your home course
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2013, 12:09:06 AM »
Lets see...Super, Assit. Super...mechanic...and 7 seasonal....18 holes...season runs from late march into late nov.

Steve Okula

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Re: Size of the maintenance crew at your home course
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2013, 07:04:35 AM »
The number of people on the staff is only half of the equation. Equally important is the number of hours worked per year.

For example, we have 36 holes and 20 staff, but this being France, (a socialist, workers’ paradise, if ever there was one) weeks paid vacation and 12 national holidays. This works out to about 1700 hours per year (not counting the inevitable absences due to illness, car trouble, funerals, baptisms, and general lameness, but for the purposes of this exercise we’ll disregard those). Thus, 1700 hours times 20 people divided by 36 holes is 944 man hours per hole per year.

Now, if you had 20 people for the same task in the United States working an average of 45 hours per week (a realistic figure according to GCSAA surveys) with 2 weeks vacation, and 6 holidays, then there are 2200 hours per year per employee, or 1222 man hours per year per hole, a 30% increase over their European colleagues. A staff of 20 in the US is worth 26 in France.

In the recent thread on management companies, several people referred to “attention to detail”. Well, attention to detail is the most labor intensive aspect of managing a golf course, and the first thing to go when man hours are short. All that string trimming, filling divots, walk-mowing greens, edging bunkers, blowing debris, etc. really stacks on the man hours, and consequently the budget.
The small wheel turns by the fire and rod,
the big wheel turns by the grace of God.

Neil White

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Re: Size of the maintenance crew at your home course
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2013, 07:21:38 AM »
Thomas,

My home course is 18 holes on a site of approximately 100 acres - the course could be classed as parkland but has a heathland feel in parts - it's also quite a tight site with no large areas of rough etc to worry about.

We have a Head Greenkeeper plus two Assistant Greenkeeper's - during the summer (May thru' Sept) we have one more who works on a part-time ad-hoc basis.

Whether this is enough depends on who you talk to - the HG would like an additional body - the owner hasn't let him.

I imagine in salary alone you are looking in the region of £50K - 60K per year.

Neil.

Michael Vogt, CGCS, CGIA

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Re: Size of the maintenance crew at your home course
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2013, 09:45:29 AM »
Thomas:

Tom Fazio Design, Private Club, 18-Holes, Total Acreage Managed-212, Parkland Style, Realistically Open 10 Months.

Total Staff - 15 full time      Seasonal and Partime-7

Steve hit the nail on the head - detail and hand work adds appreciably to the labor required.

Jon Wiggett

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Re: Size of the maintenance crew at your home course
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2013, 12:41:50 PM »
9 holer with 60 acres of grass and woodland to maintain. Just one person, me! and I double up as the Pro giving lessons to anyone looking for help.

Jon

Thomas Dai

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Re: Size of the maintenance crew at your home course
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2013, 02:03:09 PM »
Thanks to all for the responses. Great info and humour too! 5'6", would that be head to foot or around the waist?!

Interesting how many or how few some places have on the crew, I guess this reflects on fees and dues as well.

The numbers of part-timers/seasonal crew is also interesting. Good point about working hours and labour regulations as well.

I'd be interested to hear from any in Aussie/NZ on crew sizes in their areas.

All the best

Lyne Morrison

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Re: Size of the maintenance crew at your home course
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2013, 08:32:12 PM »

Thomas,

I am in Australia and have been impressed by the effort and pride of the smaller crews - in the order of a half dozen or so seems to be typical for the public courses I see.

A private course in my area has a crew of approximately 23 with additional day labour brought in on a needs basis.

Lyne

Leo Barber

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Re: Size of the maintenance crew at your home course
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2013, 11:32:15 PM »
Thomas

In New Zealand generally the crews a very small but highly productive with wide ranging skills.  Generally speaking most greens/tees would be mowed via triples and bunkers either minimal or machine raked.  Volunteer labour features prominantly.

Specifically the high end maintained courses like Cape Kidnappers might run a standard crew of 15 guys with a few summer casuals.  Higher end club courses in metropolitan areas 6-8 then a majority of the rest probably 4,5 with country tracks  (which might be half of NZs courses) 1-3.  Most courses, the Supt would be a handson role.

Paraparaumu Beach, tradtional links operate along the following lines

The Supt and GM positions are combined into the one role.
4 Guys on the tools
1 almost full time volunteer
Several other volunteers that do things like divotting and smaller tasks.

50ha (120acres) with 30ha of shortgrass and 20ha of native rough. 
Budget $350K annually
Triple mow greens/tees
Minimal inputs.
35 handraked bunkers
Bayonets for fairway irrigation (challenging!!)

Suprisingly its not a bad number for the size and scope of our operation.  Its a highly productive crew with minimal fat in the operation.  The hardest part is managing staff leave and occasional absences.

Leo 

 

Ben Lovett

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Re: Size of the maintenance crew at your home course
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2013, 02:32:36 AM »
In Turkey for 18 holes we have 25 full time staff working 6 day weeks with 2 weeks annual holiday. We overseed every year and therefore maintain a full staff year round.

Mark Chaplin

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Re: Size of the maintenance crew at your home course
« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2013, 04:27:00 AM »
Leo - how would your time be divided? Is the Supt role more management and financial or do you manage to get out on the links and get hands dirty? Good to hear of the volunteering, we had the artisans divoting once a week which works well.
Cave Nil Vino

Thomas Dai

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Re: Size of the maintenance crew at your home course
« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2013, 06:08:17 AM »
A couple more examples of low crew numbers. Played Tain and Golspie last year. Both only had three man crews, and no grass cutting by sheep either. Must be difficult to manage staff holidays/cover though. Golspie had the smoothest truest rolling greens I played on anywhere all year. I hope it recovers well from the winter storm damage.

Volunteer labour in NZ sounds interesting. Some courses in the UK have Artisan Members who pay lower dues/fees but help out on the course.

All the best

Mark Chaplin

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Re: Size of the maintenance crew at your home course
« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2013, 07:18:32 AM »
Thomas if it were properly managed I'm surprised more clubs do not use voluntary labour from members in return for a subscription reduction. Obviously such work would need to be additional work rather than core tasks or staff would lose jobs/overtime.
Cave Nil Vino

Dane Hawker

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Re: Size of the maintenance crew at your home course
« Reply #20 on: April 07, 2013, 05:14:00 PM »
North Shore Golf Club, Auckland, New Zealand

27 Holes over 200 acres

80,000 rounds of golf played each year.

10 Full time staff includes a mechanic. One seasonal through Summer

Parkland course mowed wall to wall. 80 bunkers

« Last Edit: April 07, 2013, 05:37:13 PM by Dane Hawker »

Dónal Ó Ceallaigh

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Re: Size of the maintenance crew at your home course
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2013, 07:37:19 AM »
At my club in Sweden I think we have:

2 full-time (27-holes)
1 part-time
Parkland/forest

Paul Gray

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Re: Size of the maintenance crew at your home course
« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2013, 05:39:27 PM »
A couple more examples of low crew numbers. Played Tain and Golspie last year. Both only had three man crews, and no grass cutting by sheep either. Must be difficult to manage staff holidays/cover though. Golspie had the smoothest truest rolling greens I played on anywhere all year. I hope it recovers well from the winter storm damage.

Volunteer labour in NZ sounds interesting. Some courses in the UK have Artisan Members who pay lower dues/fees but help out on the course.

All the best

To the best of my knowledge, the artisan clubs are diminishing these days. Seems to me we could be losing something very beneficial for all parties involved. I've always loved the idea of having a separate club of dedicated workers with their own club house and competitions etc.
In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

David Bartman

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Re: Size of the maintenance crew at your home course
« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2013, 07:55:13 PM »
Bill, I indicated that the number was exponentially greater

David,

I'm very curious, could you outline how and over what period of time you intend to go from 110 to 85 acres under irrigation ?

Also, what were the driving forces in moving in that direction ?

Thanks

The driving forces are the current and impending penalties form the California DWP as well as an impetus to make our course more natural looking.   We instituted two test areas, one with pine straw and the other was overgrown kikuyu.  The pine straw was well received by everyone, while the overgrown kikuyu was loved by only the golf enthusiasts and hated by our older members who began to lose more than a few balls in the knee high weeds. 

We are close to finalizing approval ( project headed to the Board of Directors) for adding pine straw, more overgrown kikuyu ( well out of the line of play ), some expanded naturalized areas that are not in play as well as some mulch areas under trees that are not pines.  The project should take about 4 months to complete and most likely will be pushed to 2014 due to bureaucratic delays that will cause us to miss our spring/ summer growing window. 

We are addressing the 80 or so acres of roughs on our property regarding the irrigation reduction, so those will drop to about 50 acres or irrigated turf.  I also had my numbers slightly off, we are going from 120 irrigated acres to 90.  We have already dropped 5 acres , so the project is for the remaining 25 acres.
Still need to play Pine Valley!!

Matt Day

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Re: Size of the maintenance crew at your home course
« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2013, 08:26:38 PM »

Thomas,

I am in Australia and have been impressed by the effort and pride of the smaller crews - in the order of a half dozen or so seems to be typical for the public courses I see.

A private course in my area has a crew of approximately 23 with additional day labour brought in on a needs basis.

Lyne
Lyn
Those numbers are spot on for most public tracks in Australia, we have a super, 12 staff and a part time mechanic to look after 36 holes, range, practice areas and landscaping.  And the staff work a nine day fortnight  :)  www.wembleygolf.com.au