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Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: North American Links Golf
« Reply #25 on: March 31, 2013, 02:00:38 AM »
Jeff - Donegal certainly looks very nice and the pricing point reflects the difficulty of getting there. Royal Portrush and RCD are indeed "nearby" but still a two hour drive from Donegal.

My slightly tongue in cheek post is pointing out you can arrive at the airport, jump in a cab and be ordering in the club bar 15 minutes later, rather than still being in the hire car queue. For the return flight, finish golf have a beer, call the cab for 90 mins before the flight and be airborne before you'd have reached the M25.
Cave Nil Vino

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: North American Links Golf
« Reply #26 on: March 31, 2013, 05:57:10 AM »
Chappers

Manston?  Is that KLM going in the wrong direction with a stop-over for folks living in USA?   ;) ;D

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: North American Links Golf
« Reply #27 on: March 31, 2013, 08:43:49 AM »
Sean - KLM are very canny and their UK regional flights link in with their long haul departures/arrivals at Amsterdam.
Cave Nil Vino

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: North American Links Golf
« Reply #28 on: March 31, 2013, 09:59:10 AM »
Sean - KLM are very canny and their UK regional flights link in with their long haul departures/arrivals at Amsterdam.


Chappers

You mean savy for an airline?  Unless the cost is considerably cheaper, I don't do stop-overs as they increase the odds of screw up of some sort. 

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: North American Links Golf
« Reply #29 on: March 31, 2013, 10:34:15 AM »
Jeff - Donegal certainly looks very nice and the pricing point reflects the difficulty of getting there. Royal Portrush and RCD are indeed "nearby" but still a two hour drive from Donegal.

My slightly tongue in cheek post is pointing out you can arrive at the airport, jump in a cab and be ordering in the club bar 15 minutes later, rather than still being in the hire car queue. For the return flight, finish golf have a beer, call the cab for 90 mins before the flight and be airborne before you'd have reached the M25.

Mark,
Looked at Manston, but requires me to leave my home around lunchtime to catch 5:45 flight in US, in addition to lost baggage risk, as opposed to nonstop late flight which allows me dinner at home before departure. Also nonstop backfrom London allows me to play round on departure day.
besides I rather enjoy the driving, once I find the reverse gear ;) ;) ;D ;D, particularly when following the likes of Neil ;)

"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: North American Links Golf
« Reply #30 on: March 31, 2013, 10:46:45 AM »
There's a lot of references made to the likes of Streamsong and Sand Hills and Dismal River and Bandon and the similarity or not of these  and other similar courses to UK style links courses. A nice discussion point.

One aspect that interests me is what would the size of the maintenance crew be on courses like this. How many full-time guys? How many part-time or seasonal guys? Just on the maintenance team though, not the whole staff at the facility.

All the best

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: North American Links Golf
« Reply #31 on: March 31, 2013, 11:16:52 AM »
Quote
Jason, my bad for overlooking Wildhorse.  From Des Moines, the DRIVE is about 5 hours.

Please don't try to make WH in 5 hours from Des Moines.  It would require about 100mph average.   It is 2hrs to Omaha, and another 4.5 from there, hauling ass. 

The case for the real links trip to GB&I by comparison, is persuasive.
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: North American Links Golf
« Reply #32 on: March 31, 2013, 11:55:07 AM »
You can't compare airfare costs and rounds played, in a vacuum, you have to consider a critical factor.

Do you wear glasses ?

The "critical" factor, the weather.

Do you enjoy playing in cool/cold weather ?

Do you enjoy playing in the rain ?

Do you enjoy playing in cool/cold rainy weather ?

Do you want to travel thousands of miles to play in damp, cool/cold rainy, windy weather ?

Streamsong seems awfully attractive to me ! ;D ;D :D

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: North American Links Golf
« Reply #33 on: March 31, 2013, 12:04:19 PM »
I'd rather play in 50 deg. with rain and wind than 100 deg. with heavy humidity.  But that's just me.
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Patrick_Mucci

Re: North American Links Golf
« Reply #34 on: March 31, 2013, 12:22:45 PM »
I'd rather play in 50 deg. with rain and wind than 100 deg. with heavy humidity.  But that's just me.

Sven,

I just came from three days at Streamsong and there was no uncomfortable humidity.

Bill Brightly, who was there at the same time can attest to that fact.

When, and where have you played where the humidity was 100 % ?

When it's raining, what's the humidity as a % ?

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: North American Links Golf
« Reply #35 on: March 31, 2013, 12:33:25 PM »
I'd rather play in 50 deg. with rain and wind than 100 deg. with heavy humidity.  But that's just me.

Sven,

I just came from three days at Streamsong and there was no uncomfortable humidity.

Bill Brightly, who was there at the same time can attest to that fact.

When, and where have you played where the humidity was 100 % ?

When it's raining, what's the humidity as a % ?

Pat:

Don't be a moron.  I never said anything about 100% humidity.  The word used was "heavy," and I know from experience that playing 36 a day in Florida in the middle of the summer is not my cup of tea.

You sometimes come across as smart enough to realize that my comment was alluding to the concept that heat/humidity tolerance is very subjective, as well to pick up on the idea that there are seasonal concerns that go into deciding where you might want to head for your next trip.  In June, July or August, Streamsong is not going to be on my radar.  It very well might be in the winter months.  Bandon and GB&I, on the other hand, are pretty much open game all year round.

Sven

"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: North American Links Golf
« Reply #36 on: March 31, 2013, 12:40:32 PM »
I'd rather play in 50 deg. with rain and wind than 100 deg. with heavy humidity.  But that's just me.

Strongly agree.  I'd also add that I'd rather play in 100 degrees with 30% humidity than 90 degrees with 80% humidity.  Essentially this means that the practical season for Streamsong for me is Nov- Mar, which of course would dovetail quite nicely with a summer on the UK links....
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Patrick_Mucci

Re: North American Links Golf
« Reply #37 on: March 31, 2013, 12:53:51 PM »
Jud T & Sven,

How much experience do each of you have in terms of playing golf in Florida in the suimmer ?

WIND has a way of making warm/humid rounds very enjoyable.

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: North American Links Golf
« Reply #38 on: March 31, 2013, 12:58:52 PM »
Jud T & Sven,

How much experience do each of you have in terms of playing golf in Florida in the suimmer ?


Little to none, and I plan on keeping it that way.
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: North American Links Golf
« Reply #39 on: March 31, 2013, 04:11:24 PM »
Earlier it was mentioned that bermuda fairways can't be maintained to play like links golf.

I'm not 100% sure I agree, what are some thoughts from the group?

Streamsong is bermuda...I thought the turf was really firm and the bounce and roll out were factors that had to be accounted for.

I've heard Wolf Point is bermuda, but plays very firm.

What is the turf at Yeamans Hall and Seminole?
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Martin Toal

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: North American Links Golf
« Reply #40 on: March 31, 2013, 05:06:38 PM »
Streamsong looks terrific and is certainly on my bucket list but if you want the authentic links experience you need to cross the Atlantic, Bandon excepted. Playing golf in sunshine is lovely but in summer in Donegal that is unlikely to be more than the 70s and could easily be a lot lower. The wind turning with the tides and clouds scudding across the ocean, the chat from the barman and other players over a pint of the black stuff and walking on a course with no cart paths are also part of the experience. As well as the big courses such as Rossapenna from which TD is currently reporting, you can also play some small quirky local courses of the kind that no architect would design nowadays. You could even bring hickory to them.

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: North American Links Golf
« Reply #41 on: March 31, 2013, 05:45:56 PM »
I've experienced hot humid breezes and they are rather uncomfortable.

Pat I've worn glasses for 25 years and a baseball cap is all that's needed to keep out the rain even in a sporty breeze.

Jeff enjoy Ireland I've heard it's a fine place.
Cave Nil Vino

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: North American Links Golf
« Reply #42 on: March 31, 2013, 05:56:07 PM »
I've experienced hot humid breezes and they are rather uncomfortable.

Pat I've worn glasses for 25 years and a baseball cap is all that's needed to keep out the rain even in a sporty breeze.

Jeff enjoy Ireland I've heard it's a fine place.

Sorry Mark,
headed to Kent, just not via Manston ;)
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: North American Links Golf
« Reply #43 on: March 31, 2013, 06:36:45 PM »
if you want the authentic links experience you need to cross the Atlantic


I'm thinking this may be spot on.
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: North American Links Golf
« Reply #44 on: March 31, 2013, 08:08:35 PM »
Earlier it was mentioned that bermuda fairways can't be maintained to play like links golf.

I'm not 100% sure I agree, what are some thoughts from the group?

Streamsong is bermuda...I thought the turf was really firm and the bounce and roll out were factors that had to be accounted for.

I've heard Wolf Point is bermuda, but plays very firm.

What is the turf at Yeamans Hall and Seminole?

Bermuda when dormant plays very fast IF not overwatered.  Not so in the summer.   Our rough just got thick as hell over the past couple of weeks.   :o

Bill Seitz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: North American Links Golf
« Reply #45 on: April 01, 2013, 09:56:30 AM »
Surprised no one answered the original question with the Links of North Dakota. 

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: North American Links Golf
« Reply #46 on: April 01, 2013, 11:26:43 AM »
Chambers Bay was a good call. 

Thoughts on the  wooga (thick rough) taking Wildhorse out of the discussion for North American Links.


Mac,

Good question, I always thought that the burning off of the wooga helps the overall playability of WH.  Last year was the first year since ’99 that I was not able to make it out there and I have heard that they are trying to “soften” the course.  Don’t know if this is true or not, but would be a shame if it is.

Jason

The Wooga varies from season to season, and year to year. Right now, coming after last years drought, the Wooga is as tame as you'll likely ever see it.

Jason, The burning, imo, is the easiest way to keep it from turning into Prairie Dunes. It does however come back healthier.

Josh does a great job in controlling the over throw on his course.

Yesterday we were discussing how the perfect Sand Hills surrounds should both look and play. It's very similar to the way Pinehurst #2 is now presented. Recoverability, with differing challenges depending on lie.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: North American Links Golf
« Reply #47 on: April 01, 2013, 01:58:14 PM »
Yesterday we were discussing how the perfect Sand Hills surrounds should both look and play. It's very similar to the way Pinehurst #2 is now presented.


sonic BOOM!!
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Ben Sims

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: North American Links Golf
« Reply #48 on: April 01, 2013, 03:39:51 PM »
Mac,

Here is my experience with Bermuda.  I haven't been to Streamsong, but they aren't the only game in town when it comes to striving for a certain playability on Bermuda.  Don's maintenance meld at Wolf Point is the combination of several factors that I believe could be (but probably won't be) accepted by Bermuda courses.

1) Irrigation.  The biggest piece.  Don believes in--and I by association--in strong, brutish (some might say ugly?) turf.  I've rarely seen any pictures of Wolf that look like the bermuda at say, Palmetto or Streamsong.  I don't mean to speak for Don, but he wants the turf to be somewhat unhappy.  In a perfect world, he would give them a large amount of water on an infrequent basis.  This causes less green turf, with very strong and deep roots.  He is cultivating a surface on which to play golf, NOT growing pretty, lush, green grass.  However, no matter his efforts, rain can derail the plan (this is especially true in central Florida and southeast Texas where rain comes in heavy).

2) Ownership.  Don isn't trying to impress customers.  There aren't many magazines taking pictures.  It isn't getting rated.  All he has to do is present the best maintenance meld for the owner.  And the owner wants a fun, practical, sustainable surface. 

3) Topdressing/mowing.  Bermuda takes a concerted effort to be firm and not "grabby."  The biggest part of this is getting the surface to play with less friction, which means minimizing grain and increasing firmness.  Both of these goals are accomplished with topdressing.  And NOT just greens.  To get surrounds to play with links characteristics, topdressing should be done in graduated applications around the green and approaches as well.


But this weekend at Chambers, I was reminded yet again that even the linksiest of bermudas can ever replicate fescue.  So I would recommend that anyone looking for links golf in North America start FIRST with fescue on sand and then gradually branch out from there. 

Mike Schott

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: North American Links Golf
« Reply #49 on: April 01, 2013, 03:44:49 PM »
If not a true links, The Gailes course at Lakewood Shores resort in Oscoda, MI is a fine facsimile of a Links course, at least in design. The architect, Kevin Aldridge visited many British Isle links courses and designed this as an homage. Double greens, pot bunkers, homage holes including a punchbowl green and Postage Stamp par 3 are part of the experience. It unfortunately does not play firm and fast though but it is a hell of a lot of fun and a great value.