Best non-links or heath in GB&I?

[Tom Culley]

How about Stoke Poges?

[Adam Lawrence]

Haven't played it but what about Loch Lomond?

Magnificent clubhouse, lovely views and a nice but not great golf course. I suspect exclusivity has a part to play in its very elevated position in the magazine rankings.

Thanks Adam, i'm not a morning person!

Based on that quoting, I'm not sure you're an afternoon one either

[Niall C]

Kingsbarns ? Serious suggestion, if slightly controversial.

Niall

[Martin Toal]

Stoke Park, as it is now, is a good shout. I would also include Malone and Belvoir Park in Belfast, and would Woburn count? The Dukes is a very nice track.

[Neil White]

Agree with Sean - Blackwell in Worcestershire.

Neil.

[Thomas Dai]

I vote for Blackwell as well.

Super course, very quiet. A really classy place - http://www.blackwellgolfclub.com/ - I believe they appointed a new Head Greenkeeper a few months ago, ex-South Staffs GC, and if he gets the course condition at Blackwell as good as at South Staffs then Blackwell will certainly be worth travelling to play. Shame Blackwell don't hold any club open competitions although there is a pretty good winter green-fee deal on there until the end of March.

Actually, South Staffs itself, which is close to Wolverhampton, would also be a nominee of mine for a quality non-heathland course as would be Olton GC, which is in south-east Birmingham suburbia.

Also on heavy land in the South Midlands and worth a game if your passing is Ross-on-Wye GC - http://www.therossonwyegolfclub.co.uk/ - it's not the course you can see from the M50 motorway though, that's South Herefordshire. Ross-on-Wye GC is a couple of miles further east.

All the best.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Huntercombe is rather more parkland than heathland in my opinion and well worth a shout in this topic.
Woburn would certainly get a place if deemed as parkland by the committee

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

It has been quite along time since I played either of them.
But when I did all the flowers were blooming and it was quite spectatcular.Golf course design I agree is marginal but a really nice setting and conditioning was great.
The Dukes was my favourite of the two.

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

Agree with Ally and Jeff regarding Carlow. Some good holes on the back nine - I recall an uphill par four around the 16th/17th that ran through a funnel shaped valley. It's been a long time (25+ years) since I played there.

A favourite of mine is Malone. I had the pleasure of playing there for next to nothing as a student at Queen's. Some really solid par fours; the 5th and 7th come to mind as well as the 16th and 18th. It was always in great condition.

I only walked Belvoir Park a couple of time, so my memory is rather fuzzy, but there were some good holes on that course. The 18th was a bit of a let-down as I remember.

It's interesting that both Malone and Belvoir Park are ranked in the mid-40s in the most recent rankings of Irish courses. I would have expected them both to be rated better than that, but what do I know.

I've read some good things about Birr; so good that I really would love to play it. Lots of quirk and blind holes I've heard.

[James Boon]

... but I think it's certainly a live contender for 'best UK course on crap soil' or whatever title we're assigning to this debate!

Adam's point certainly clarifies these things in my mind, though I wouldn't want to hijack Ally's thread, but there is far too much is it or isn't it type debates about heathland, moorland, downland etc etc.

Therefore the best course (or my favourite at least) "on crap soil" for me is the already mentioned Cavendish.

However, with several of you mentioning Blackwell, I should perhaps make an effort to check it out this year?

Cheers,

James

[Johnny_Browne]

Ally & Donal
Belvoir Park is a classy Harry Colt original routing - one of the best if not the best routing of an inland course in Ireland.  Changes made over a number of years have been detrimental rather than helpful to the course.  However  tree removal and renovation is just starting and in a few years it will hopefully return to its former glory. It's 5 par threes are almost without equal anywhere.
Johnny

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

Ally & Donal
Belvoir Park is a classy Harry Colt original routing - one of the best if not the best routing of an inland course in Ireland.  Changes made over a number of years have been detrimental rather than helpful to the course.  However  tree removal and renovation is just starting and in a few years it will hopefully return to its former glory. It's 5 par threes are almost without equal anywhere.
Johnny

Johnny,

Yes, now that you mention it, I recall that there were some good par threes; the last one on the back nine in particular.

[Frank Pont]

Ally & Donal
Belvoir Park is a classy Harry Colt original routing - one of the best if not the best routing of an inland course in Ireland.  Changes made over a number of years have been detrimental rather than helpful to the course.  However  tree removal and renovation is just starting and in a few years it will hopefully return to its former glory. It's 5 par threes are almost without equal anywhere.
Johnny

+1

[Mark Pearce]

Among modern inland English courses I think Scott Macpherson's Close House Colt course deserves to be in the mix.

[Tom Kelly]

I didn't get round to playing it myself but whilst in Scotland I heard a lot of good things about the Rosemount Course at Blairgowrie and it sounds like Tom Doak is a fan of the 'Wee' course there to. I'd be interested to hear any comments on them?

In terms of modern designs I have to say I really enjoyed playing the Oxfordshire. Not my usual cup of tea with over the top modern mounding everywhere, but it has some fun holes and the openness of the site uses the wind to really good effect. I guess it would be a slog for shorter hitters though.

[Philip Gawith]

I am inclined to add West Sussex/Pulborough to this list. Perhaps this is cheating because it has quite a bit of heather - but it feels to me almost like a downland course with its grey/white sand.

Huntercombe is really an inland links  in its origins and style of play and character - but these origins have been bastardised by allowing too many trees to grow, hence parkland - but it is not really parkland in origins or character.

Yelverton in Devon is also an interesting course which is not links or heathland - though not a contender for a "best of" award.

Queenwood is a very good inland course that is neither parkland or heathland - though there is a lot of (planted) gorse.

[Rich Goodale]

Blairgowrie (Rosemount) or Hankley Common are the "best" I've played, but neither one would make a decent living if they were transplanted to Pinehurst (which both of them somewhat resemble).  UK inland courses are almost all either complete disasters or good/great "Members" courses, whose charm is based on shortness, often clever design, intimacy and clubhouses in which PG Wodehouse would feel comfortable.  Sunningdale might be a step up, but I can't comment due to ignorance.

[Mark Pearce]

Blairgowrie (Rosemount) or Hankley Common are the "best" I've played, but neither one would make a decent living if they were transplanted to Pinehurst (which both of them somewhat resemble).  UK inland courses are almost all either complete disasters or good/great "Members" courses, whose charm is based on shortness, often clever design, intimacy and clubhouses in which PG Wodehouse would feel comfortable.  Sunningdale might be a step up, but I can't comment due to ignorance.

Rich,

Have you played Ganton?

[Mark Bourgeois]

Blairgowrie (Rosemount) or Hankley Common are the "best" I've played, but neither one would make a decent living if they were transplanted to Pinehurst (which both of them somewhat resemble).  UK inland courses are almost all either complete disasters or good/great "Members" courses, whose charm is based on shortness, often clever design, intimacy and clubhouses in which PG Wodehouse would feel comfortable.  Sunningdale might be a step up, but I can't comment due to ignorance.

Rich,

Have you played Ganton?

For the sake of Richard's reputation for brilliance, one hopes not.

Anyway, what about Royal Worlington?

[Adam Lawrence]

Both Blairgowrie and Hankley are unequivocally heath, aren't they? So I'm not sure they fit in this discussion!

[Thomas Dai]

So far the following courses have been named.

I've attempted to categorise most trying to use the words from whoever suggested the course or a description used by someone else about another course that may be fairly similar or how the club describes itself.

I also have a 'faux' category for modern-ish new builds trying to appear like an Yee Olde traditional classic.

No slight intended in the labelling - I might have slipped up with some of my copying and pasteing.

Would you change any course/category?

Blairgowrie = heathland
Hankley = heathland
Ganton = heathland
Castle Stuart - a new label, 'faux links'
Kingsbarns - faux links
West Sussex/Pulborough - downland
Yelverton - moorland
Huntercombe - downland
Queenwood - new label, 'faux heathland'
Close House Colt - modern parkland
Belvoir Park - traditional parkland
Malone - traditional parkland
Carlow - quasi-heathland
Trump Aberdeen - trumpditional - only joking, not actually mentioned
Cavendish ??
Blackwell - traditional parkland with a bit of heathland
Woburn Dukes - faux heathland
Woburn Marquess - faux heathland
South Staffs - traditional inland
Olton - traditional parkland
Ross-on-Wye - parkland
Rolls of Monmouth - parkland
Stoke Poges - traditional parkland
The Grove - modern parkland
The Oxfordshire - modern parkland
2010/Celtic Manor - modern Taffyland
K-Club - modern parkland
Carlton House - modern parkland
St Mellion - modern parkland
The Roxburgh - modern parkland
Loch Lomond - modern parkland
Chart Hills - modern parkland
Bowood - modern parkland
Slaley Hall - modern parkland
Fulford (York) - traditional parkland with a bit of heathland
Beau Desert - heathland
Southerndown - downland
Delemere Forest - heathland
Goodwood - downland
Little Aston - traditional parkland with a bit of heathland
Gleneagles King's - moorland rather than heathland
The Belfry - modern parkland
Bearwood Lakes ??
The Stranahan at Players Club - modern parkland
Prestbury - traditional parkland
Edgbaston - traditional parkland
Harborne - traditional parkland
Oxford - traditional parkland
Royal Worlington - heathland

All the best

[Rich Goodale]

Blairgowrie (Rosemount) or Hankley Common are the "best" I've played, but neither one would make a decent living if they were transplanted to Pinehurst (which both of them somewhat resemble).  UK inland courses are almost all either complete disasters or good/great "Members" courses, whose charm is based on shortness, often clever design, intimacy and clubhouses in which PG Wodehouse would feel comfortable.  Sunningdale might be a step up, but I can't comment due to ignorance.

Rich,

Have you played Ganton?

For the sake of Richard's reputation for brilliance, one hopes not.

Anyway, what about Royal Worlington?

Los Dos Marquisos

No, never played Ganton.  Lots of opportunities, but no serious conviction.  Mea maxima culpa...

Adamo

Glad somebody read the inital post.  IMO, if we are only allowed to consider non-links and non-heath (and I assume non-downs) courses, we are stuck with the bogs like Loch Lomond.  Dunnikier in Kircaldy (built to R&A specs for a posssible Open Qualifiying course) could be a very good track if maintained by the Loco Coonsel like a golf course rather than the grounds of a sink estate....

Ricardo

[Mark Pearce]

Thomas,

One deliberate error must be the inclusion of Slaley Hall.  The Hunting Course is far from the best modern in Northumberland, let alone the country.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Is Royal Worlington on a heath?

[Mark Pearce]

Is Ganton on a heath?  I have never thought of it as heathland but most people seem to classify it as one.