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Greg Tallman

What is easier...
« on: March 18, 2013, 03:53:50 PM »
creating a great short par 4 (less than 350) or a great long par 4 (More than 460)?

Jason Topp

Re: What is easier...
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2013, 04:11:28 PM »
Great short par fours seem easiest to create.  So many of the ones I have played could have been built anywhere - 10 at Riviera, 4 at Woodlands, 3 at Kingston Heath or even 3 at Cabo Del Sol Ocean. 

Long par fours are a slog without any hazards.  To create one that with strategic interest that is a pleasure to play requires a unique setting and some real creativity in using that setting - Road Hole, 7th Ballybunion Old, Foxy, 15 at Kingsley Club or the 5th at Cabo Del Sol Ocean.

The long par fours I hold in highest esteem value placement of the tee ball in addition to power and tend to have small greens or at least greens that play small making a layup at a correct angle frequently a better play than trying to reach the green in regulation. 
 


Garland Bayley

Re: What is easier...
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2013, 05:16:52 PM »
Both are exercises in creating temptation.

If you are adept at creating temptation, then they are equally easy to create.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Peter Pallotta

Re: What is easier... New
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2013, 10:58:22 PM »
Greg - interesting. I think the better player bias is/has always been a part of this, since for folks who routinely hit greens in regulation, the short Par 4 challenges/subverts their expectations while still allowing them the fun (and ego boost) of another green in regulation. For lesser golfers, the short Par 4 allows for a rare green in regulation, plain and simple, and for the fun and ego boost that goes with that (even though there is little added complexity or challenges and no subverting of expectations in comparison to a regular Par 4.) In other words, everyone -- good and average players alike, if for different reasons -- love the short Par 4, and so it's pretty hard to mess one up/design a bad one. But precisely because it's so easy to design an average short Par 4, it's so hard to design a truly great one...and so for that reason alone I'm going to say that creating a great long Par 4 is easier that creating a short one.  It's easier because no one really loves long Par 4s -- it usually gives neither the good player or the average one any satisfaction/boost, and so if the architect throws them even one little crumb, i.e. designs a relatively easy green to putt, or a wide enough opening for a run-up fairway wood, it suddenly seems like a great hole!

Peter  
« Last Edit: March 18, 2013, 11:23:41 PM by PPallotta »

Doug Siebert

Re: What is easier...
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2013, 11:12:54 PM »
Creating a great short par 4 is probably easier these days because the definition of a "long" par 4 varies much more amongst golfers. A 320 yard par 4 can be great for short hitters and long hitters for different reasons.  It can offer long hitters the go/no go decision, while it can offer shorter hitters strategic choices off the tee and a reward for accurate wedge play.

The difference between short hitters and long hitters is magnified so much more these days that it isn't really possible to create a long par 4 when both are playing from the same tees.  A short hitter may be unable to reach the green in two while a long hitter has a wedge or short iron in his hands.  In order to make the hole play as a long par 4 for him, it would have to play as a long par 5 for the short hitter.
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