Pine Valley 14th green, 1936

[Jason Walker]

Last year I stumbled across a series of original photographs from the 1936 Walker Cup at Pine Valley.  One picture in particular stood out--one of the 14th green.

I had never before seen a level of shaping and grooming at Pine Valley, old pictures or otherwise.   Has anyone seen this before?

[JESII]

Jason,

How certain are you that it's Pive Valley?

[Jason Walker]

100%

-Unfortunately half the picture is missing.  I will eventually scan the entire thing.
-The typed caption on the back from the newspaper it's from is Sept, 1936, Walker Cup
-The other pics in the series

[john_stiles]

This Pine Valley photo looks odd.       The smooth edge to the water hazard, and the seemingly steep drop off at one side of the green.

The early photos and even photos in club history book from the 1930s have a less manicured look than the bunker & green lines seen in the photo.  The green surface looks unusual,  being very flat, almost like a table top, and the green looks too small.

Same as Jim's question, and agree with Jason's questioning of the photo he posted,  is this the 14th at Pine Valley ?

Which newspaper ?

 

[Mark McKeever]

I'm very puzzled by this one.  Are we looking through the green or back to the tee box??

Mark

[Jason Walker]

This Pine Valley photo looks odd.       The smooth edge to the water hazard, and the seemingly steep drop off at one side of the green.

The early photos and even photos in club history book from the 1930s have a less manicured look than the bunker & green lines seen in the photo.  The green surface looks unusual,  being very flat, almost like a table top, and the green looks too small.

Same as Jim's question, and agree with Jason's questioning of the photo he posted,  is this the 14th at Pine Valley ?

Which newspaper ?

 

Agree with everything you say.  Again, I'll get the original scanned so the entire green is visible.  Folks with many more turns through the property than me all agree it's PV.

Newspaper was the Baltimore Sun.

[john_stiles]

More turns than Jim ?

[Jason Walker]

More turns than Jim ?

Yes.

That being said, I should modify my earlier post to 99% certain.  I'm totally open to it not being PV.  I had actually forgotten I even had these until someone produced some other unique, older PV photos.  Figured I would throw this one up as I sit in a day-long meeting, poking my eyeballs out.  I'll commit to getting the entire pic scanned appropriately when I return home tomorrow evening.

[Patrick_Mucci]

The photo is taken from back behind the green ( left toward # 16 green), probably from the little Penisula that juts into the lake about 15 yards behind  # 14

[Jason Walker]

The photo is taken from back behind the green ( left toward # 16 green), probably from the little Penisula that juts into the lake about 15 yards behind  # 14

was told it's from where a drop area existed but long abandoned.

[Patrick_Mucci]

The photo is taken from back behind the green ( left toward # 16 green), probably from the little Penisula that juts into the lake about 15 yards behind  # 14

was told it's from where a drop area existed but long abandoned.

Jason,

That's the Penisula that juts out into the lake

[john_stiles]

Sounds like the full scan will be interesting.

Hope the others make it to the thread.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jason,

That area is mostly undergrowth today.

I wonder if that feature was allowed to deteriorate during WWII or just over time.

It, like the mound in the 18th green should be restored.

[JESII]

The penninsula is still there and was usable (although not used) up through the late 90's. It would be an interesting restoration. In what circumstances would it be used?

[Patrick_Mucci]

The penninsula is still there and was usable (although not used) up through the late 90's. It would be an interesting restoration. In what circumstances would it be used?

Jim,

I was referencing the bunker and it's unique crisp structure.
And, if you restore the bunker, then you should restore the drop area.

I always felt that the drop area should have been a back tee when the ball started getting out of control.

Eventually someone agreed with me and created a new back tee even further back.

[Mark McKeever]

Does anyone have a current day picture from a similar angle??

Mark

[JESII]

The green side of the bunker is pretty close today. The pond edge is certainly not as sharp but I don't think Pine Valley aims for sharp crisp edges, do you?

[Mark McKeever]

So is the bunker in between the photographer and the hole the current thin back left bunker?

Mark

[JESII]

Yep.

Sorry John Stiles...I left you hanging. Pat convinced me. He's very persuasive with regular font black type...

[archie_struthers]

 


Jimmy Sullivan is quite a good source but the picture confused me originally . At first blush I thought it was 16 fairway in the background . Now its pretty clear it is 14 tee box, as the hill is quite steep and fits .  The area where the picture was taken from is actually the new tee box (15) , which they use from time to time and doubles as the drop area.  However , I just started looking at the picture and its late.

The curve of the bunker where the caddies are standing looks like it would corroborate my thinking, and the two overhanging trees are still there.

[Alan FitzGerald CGCS MG]

My initial thought was it wasn't PV too until I looked harder. It definitely is 14 looking back from the old drop area/new 15 back tee.

There still is a bulkhead there, but I don't know whether it's the same one from the date of the picture or rebuilt. There is a possibility it was rebuilt at some point and the size of the bunker (ie land area) reduced if it was redone. The biggest difference I see is that there now is a grass mounded walk off to 15 tee which would be the right edge of the picture.

Great picture, I'd love to see the others if you can post them.

[PGertner]

Those leaning trees on the back of 15 tee it for me.....definitely PV. 

Were previously on my tree removal radar.....

Patrick Gertner
Potowomut Golf Club
East Greenwich, RI

[JESII]

Stupid question but is it possible the trees there today are the ones in that picture?

[David_Elvins]

It, like the mound in the 18th green should be restored.

Fazio did a reasonable job of restoring this bunker in the early 2000s, I think in conjunction with the new back tee on 15.  It had lost it's clean look prior to that.  

The most interesting thing about the photo is that looking at the angle and composition of the photo it looks to have been taken from a train passing by the property.  

[JESII]

Impossible...the train was traveling 67MPH and the guy was looking the other way...