Links vs. Heathland

[David Davis]

After sampling one of the finest Heathland courses in the world and a sure Top 50 in nearly every ranking I've seen this last weekend I'm left completely baffled at the fact that nearly everyone on our trip rated the two links courses as far better, more interesting and more fun including me. Now I realize these are just opinions but I'd love to hear some for and against arguments.

I love trees as much as the next guy, heck I'm from Oregon but I'm left wondering the place of them on golf courses, let alone allowing them to take over courses. In the end I found an awful lot of holes reminding me of an awful lot of other holes I'd just played. At the end of the round I couldn't remember one from the next (ok slight exaggeration there). Add to that a lack of significant elevation changes and I think I might of had my hopes up too high...

Anyone else car to comment?

[Michael Whitaker]

I thought by definition Heathland was supposed to be devoid of trees.

[David_Tepper]

"In the end I found an awful lot of holes reminding me of an awful lot of other holes I'd just played."

David D. -

Did you get this feeling after playing the Heathland course or the Links courses?

DT

[Adam Lawrence]

Knowing that the heath course in question was Woodhall Spa, I'm going to be a little bit heretical and suggest that the issue is not a general one of links v heath but that Woodhall is actually rather overrated. It's very nice, but the best inland course in Britain? Not by a long chalk imo. Greens lack interest, so does the terrain. It can't hold a candle to (for example) Notts. Or Sunningdale.

[David Davis]

David, that feeling was in the Heathland course. The particular links courses we played were quite varied in terms of tee shots and approach shots. Simply a lot more variety.

Perhaps some of the other guys will chime in as well. I was not alone in these views.

Michael, well, not that I'm aware of. I do think that when most of them were originally developed there were about 25% of the current trees around them. My take on these courses is that they are inland, sand based soil and a fair bit of heather. Often the fairways are lined by trees.
They play hard and fast much like links courses.

[jeffwarne]

Knowing that the heath course in question was Woodhall Spa, I'm going to be a little bit heretical and suggest that the issue is not a general one of links v heath but that Woodhall is actually rather overrated. It's very nice, but the best inland course in Britain? Not by a long chalk imo. Greens lack interest, so does the terrain. It can't hold a candle to (for example) Notts. Or Sunningdale.

Ding Ding !
I think we have a winner.
Very nice course, beautiful setting, excellent bunkering, but overated at World Top 50.
Let's not condemn heathland courses because we played the same hole 5 times on the back nine at Woodhall.
a bit of tree thinning could be in order

[David Davis]

Adam,

Thanks for that. My hunch is I'm in agreement with you but I just haven't played enough of the great Heathland courses to be sure, however if this was the best then my expectations are rather deflated. I quite liked West Sussex and didn't have many expectations to be honest but had heard it was a nice course. I mentioned during the round that I liked Utrechtse De Pan at least as much as Woodhall Spa and by the time we finished I realized I like it more. I do think the bunkering was fun...but I guess all you have to do is dig bigger holes to give them something to talk about. Plus I didn't find myself in too many of them. Thankfully.

[David_Tepper]

David D. -

That your group found the holes on the Heathland course less interesting/memorable than the holes on the Links courses is interesting.

I know that some Americans, who are used to playing tree-lined courses, come back from their first trip playing links golf in GB&I and have a hard time remembering one hole from another because "there are no trees and all the holes kind of look the same."

I have played Brora probably a dozen times over the past 9 years and I still have a tough time remembering some of the holes on the course. With such a wide open landscape, I find the holes do tend to blend together.

DT

[Bill_McBride]

I thought by definition Heathland was supposed to be devoid of trees.

You'd have to call New Zealand a heathland course, but almost all the fairways are tree lined even if the trees are 50 yards off the center line. 

[Thomas Dai]

I posted a thread a little while ago about sheep and cattle on courses as I was wondering if it was their grazing that caused heathland courses to look so bare and open in old photos.

This was a fascinating historical point that Adam came up with.

"When researching my piece on Fowler for the magazine last year, I found an interesting newspaper clipping from the 20s, reporting the progress of construction at the Berkshire before it opened (at that time, it was going to be called Bagshot Golf Club). Now, obviously, Berkshire is pretty heavily forested, but it wasn't so dense when it opened. That wasn't because it was grazed - it's park of the Royal Parks - but, according to the newspaper, because it was 'cleared of timber during the War' (ie WW1). I hadn't thought of this reason why some of the heaths were less heavily treed previously."

I realise other posters are specifically referring to Woodhall Spa in this thread but I thought it worth re-raising this point in general heathland terms. I also take the point that when you first play links golf the courses can seem quite featureless and that it is only with time and experience that the nuances and subtleties of links become more apparent.

From a personal point of view, a more open heathland aspect is much more enjoyable - and memorable - than a heavily tree lined one. In addition, a more open aspect allows for re-growth of colourful heather and the greater influence of the wind. A more open aspect also permits views of the surrounding scenery, an area where links courses generally tend to have greater visual appeal than heavily free lined heathland courses.

All the best.

[Thomas Dai]

One lovely course comes to mind immediately where you can experience both heathland and links golf at the same time - the wonderful Golspie - plus you get a bit of parkland golf there as well.

Anyone think of any other courses which combine both heathland and links (or even parkland as well) in one course? Pyle and Kenfig maybe, although I'm not entirely sure I'd classify the front-9 as quite heathland. Nairn and/or Formby maybe?

All the best

[Michael Whitaker]

David - I've played quite a few "Heathland" courses, so I know what they are SUPPOSED to be. The problem (in my mind) is that many have been allowed to be overtaken by trees over the years and no longer are true Heathland. Many are just quasi-parkland courses and claim their heathland status by virtue of the sandy soil. I think the reason heathland was attractive for courses was its treeless similarity to seaside linksland. The introduction and overgrowth of trees has morphed many of these courses into something completely different. Not to say they are not fine courses.... just not true heathland IMHO.

[Mark Chaplin]

Michael - is it possible the heath was actually pretty useless and featureless land therefore easier to build on than prime forest or parkland on the edge of town. Especially in the wealthy commuter belt towns?

It is my views were not introduced at courses such as Walton Heath but the lack of grazing meant small saplings grew into proper trees and eventually closed in the courses.

I also believe Woodhall Spa to be overrated and there are several courses that offer more interest and challenge especially on the greens. Sadly one or two fine heaths are let down by poor putting surfaces.

[Tony_Muldoon]

The tree issue varies.  

Open heath is poor for farming so people encoraged rabbits because they ate them and used the fur plus sheep etc.  Timber and even Furze was collected for firewood.  Swinley was a true forrest and their history has all the details of how much it cost to clear the various trees.
Darwin particulalry like inland courses with "Pine and Birch".

Brian growing up in Tralee and favouring matchplay I'd have thought wind was your friend!


Each to their own, but the ammount of water on the fairways of the back 9 at Woodhall was shocking.

Tomas, Formby has that kind of sequence.

[Mark Chaplin]

Brian - unless you play the "big dune" links courses the heaths tend to be better framed and easier to remember. You are right courses like Deal and even more so Princes need a little playing to remember everything.

[Tom_Doak]

I agree that Woodhall Spa has a dull set of greens, but so do a lot of the other heathland courses.  In fact, what heathland course has a really great set of greens?  Which are the best in that department?  [It's been a long time since I played some of them.]  Note that is not something inherent in the heathland terrain, it's just that the architects in question did not put a lot of movement in their greens at that point of their careers.

I think David's lack of memory is just due to the fact that Woodhall Spa is fairly flat, which other heathland courses are not, in general.

I still like Woodhall Spa a lot, but I think some of its reputation was due to its length and difficulty thirty years ago, which has been blunted by changes in equipment and by comparison to modern venues.

[Sean_A]

While I am quite happy to play mainly links now, I can see the day where I would prefer a membership on a good heathland course (Woking would do nicely!) and a country membership for the odd links game.  There is no question for me playing links week in and out (especially when winter is the main playing season for me) that it gets too tough too often.  Playing Seacroft on Sunday was a bit of a break for me, so was Woodhall Spa on Saturday.  Woodhall is easily the prettier of the two courses because of its great texture and that is part of the pleasure of the game.  Woodhall is very penal with trees and bunkering lining practically all fairways, but that is the sort of course it is and I think its a very good one of the type.  My gripe is two fold.  First, the holes al work in two directions - very odd layout considering the parcel of land.  Second, like Liphook, there are too many par 4s around the 320ish mark - not quite drivable and definitely the sort on which a lay-up is prudent.  Combine that with all the longer 4s, many of which it is quite sensible to lay-up, and there is the feeling of being presented with the same dilemma on each tee, but isn't that what penal golf is about - execution?  Once one grasps the idea of penal golf, you may not like it, but you should evaluate the course on its terms.  So for me, Woodhall, is clearly a better course than Seacroft, but I prefer Seacroft.  That said, on Friday we played Hunstanton and I think that is a better course than Seacroft, but I probably just prefer Seacroft.

Ciao

[Scott Warren]

Tom Doak:

In fact, what heathland course has a really great set of greens?

Woking?

I liked West Sussex's greens as well as any, but it was a while ago I was there and maybe I remember them having more interest than is the reality.

Agreed that heathland greens tend to be that style of golf's Achilles heel.

But nonetheless, it may well be my favourite style of golf. Most of the joys of links golf are present, the wind is everpresent but rarely as crazy as it can get on the seaside, and there's no arguing the beauty of a heath.

[Robin_Hiseman]

I'd echo some of the sentiment expressed here about Woodhall.  I was excited to revisit a course I thoroughly enjoyed playing several years ago on a gorgeous spring weekend.  This time I found myself rather less engaged with the course than I would have hoped.

In part I think that was due to the time of year, the fact that we were playing off very forward tees for the most part (although appropriately so mostly) and the extra soggy ground conditions, particularly on the back nine.  But, like Jeff, I recognsied the close similarity of five of the holes on the back nine (10,11,15,16,17).  Whereas I was happily using the driver all the way out, coming back in I was hitting hybrid for position most times, with only a short iron to follow.  The course gets very defensive on the way back, as it gets progressively narrower and tree lined.  No fault with that per se, but repetitive within the space of 9 holes.

Woodhall would benefit from hard tree clearance, especially the weedy Birch trees that have colonised the heath and messed up the drainage.  Comparing the 'then' and 'now' photos in Richard Latham's book on Woodhall emphasises all too clearly how the character has morphed over time.

It's still a VERY good golf course, but one I think i'll save for summer play in future, when it has a chance to be shown off to better potential.

[Ally Mcintosh]

I agree that Woodhall Spa has a dull set of greens, but so do a lot of the other heathland courses.  In fact, what heathland course has a really great set of greens?  Which are the best in that department?  [It's been a long time since I played some of them.]  Note that is not something inherent in the heathland terrain, it's just that the architects in question did not put a lot of movement in their greens at that point of their careers.

I think David's lack of memory is just due to the fact that Woodhall Spa is fairly flat, which other heathland courses are not, in general.

I still like Woodhall Spa a lot, but I think some of its reputation was due to its length and difficulty thirty years ago, which has been blunted by changes in equipment and by comparison to modern venues.

The only heathland course I have played with a great set of greens in terms of internal movement is Woking.

That's not to say that a bunch of other courses don't have great green sites - they do.

[Robin_Hiseman]

Interesting heathlands greens:

Woking, Liphook, St.George's Hill are three that stand out for me as having some very engaging putting.

[Thomas Dai]

Lots of challenging putting at Beau Desert, Herbert Fowler=great green contouring IMO. The same goes for Whittington Heath (Harry Colt).

Whittington Heath, which is near Lichfield, NE of Birmingham is a cracker, 6,500, par-71 from the back tees, but it's what I would term 'a thinking mans course'. Shame there's the possibility of the new high speed rail line going right through the course in a few years time. Play it while you can.

All the best

[Sean_A]

Yes, for my money Woking and Beau Desert are the clear two with the most interesting heathland greens.  Liphook, Worpy, Swinley and Alwoodley are pretty good as well.  

Ciao

[Paul Gray]

.....I think the reason heathland was attractive for courses was its treeless similarity to seaside linksland.......

Michael,

Partially correct, but you're undervaluing the importance of the soil.

Firstly, in an era when the game was predominantly ground based, the sandy, free draining soil was almost a prerequisite. Whether or not trees were about was of secondary significance. A lot of so called heaths were actually covered in trees and had to be removed. You are however correct, IMHO, in that excessive tree growth and/or planting has led some courses to become too woodland like but a general trend of taking these back is currently flavour of the month. 

Secondly, there was of course economic reasoning behind the acquisition of the heaths: by happy coincidence, much as had been the case on the links, the best land for golf was the worst for agricultural, thus you didn't have to buy up fertile farmland to build a course.

[Niall C]

If you accept Elgin as a heathland course, I would suggest that there's some interesting putts to be had on there. Also taking up Sean's comments about maybe preferring heathlands to links, while living up in Moray and being a member at Lossiemouth which has one wonderful old links and one pefectly adequate modern one, I'm not sure if I'd have preferred to play at Elgin, at least during the summer anyway.

During the winter, links win out every time.

Niall

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