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BCrosby

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Re: Help needed identifying Perry Maxwell photos (ANGC)
« Reply #25 on: March 19, 2013, 07:26:18 PM »
Ed -

I can't figure out the buildings either, though the land in that area looks a lot like the view on the right side of the 5th hole. But that view is not very distinctive and could be almost anywhere. A relatively flat view of pasture land. It's certainly possible those photos are also of another site.

Bob

jeffwarne

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Re: Help needed identifying Perry Maxwell photos (ANGC)
« Reply #26 on: March 19, 2013, 08:17:32 PM »
Ed:

In the third photo, there appears to be a building off in the distance on the horizon.  Perhaps someone knows what multi-story buildings (the Bon-Air Vanderbilt, Forrest Hills Hotel?) were in Augusta at that time, which can help us identify the angle the photo is taken from.

Sven

[Edit:  I'm pretty convinced that photo is taken in a southwesterly direction with the Forrest Hills Hotel showing up on the horizon.  Is this the same mound from the first two pictures?]

Sven,
Nice catch.
 believe it is 5 taken from near the left front  looking back to the southwest.
definitely Forest Hills Ricker, as Bon Air would not have been visible from there as it is on the beginning backside of the hill facing downtown, with Augusta CC between it and ANGC.
That was the view I would see as I exited The Masters through the back gate racing home to watch the final holes on TV as my childhood home was very near Forest Hills.
The Hotel was demolished about 20? years ago (of course Palmer and his group pretty much demolished the course over that period as well ::) ::) :'( :'( :'( :'( :( >:( >:()
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Ed Oden

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Re: Help needed identifying Perry Maxwell photos (ANGC)
« Reply #27 on: March 19, 2013, 10:03:39 PM »
Ed:

In the third photo, there appears to be a building off in the distance on the horizon.  Perhaps someone knows what multi-story buildings (the Bon-Air Vanderbilt, Forrest Hills Hotel?) were in Augusta at that time, which can help us identify the angle the photo is taken from.

Sven

[Edit:  I'm pretty convinced that photo is taken in a southwesterly direction with the Forrest Hills Hotel showing up on the horizon.  Is this the same mound from the first two pictures?]

Sven,
Nice catch.
 believe it is 5 taken from near the left front  looking back to the southwest.
definitely Forest Hills Ricker, as Bon Air would not have been visible from there as it is on the beginning backside of the hill facing downtown, with Augusta CC between it and ANGC.
That was the view I would see as I exited The Masters through the back gate racing home to watch the final holes on TV as my childhood home was very near Forest Hills.
The Hotel was demolished about 20? years ago (of course Palmer and his group pretty much demolished the course over that period as well ::) ::) :'( :'( :'( :'( :( >:( >:()

Jeff and Sven, that all makes sense to me and I'm inclined to agree in the absence of any evidence to the contrary.  

Is it possible that the mound in this picture...



...is the same mound in the bottom left of this picture?



My gut says "no" since I think the mound on the right of the second photo would be visible to the left of the mound in the first photo.  


Ed Oden

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Re: Help needed identifying Perry Maxwell photos (ANGC)
« Reply #28 on: March 19, 2013, 10:47:58 PM »
Here is a complete list of all of the courses with photos in Maxwell's collection:

Alwoodley
ANGC
Brook Hollow
Crystal Downs
Cypress Point
Dornick Hills
Gulph Mills
Maidstone
Melrose
Merion
Oklahoma City
Pine Valley
Prairie Dunes
Southern Hills
Twin Hills

Does anyone think this photo might be from one of those courses?


Will Lozier

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Re: Help needed identifying Perry Maxwell photos (ANGC)
« Reply #29 on: March 19, 2013, 11:07:05 PM »
I have no idea about the green in the next to last picture.  It's up high somewhere, with a big view across the property out the back ... could it be #5?

Tom, when I first saw that photo I thought it was the 6th hole with the 5th in the background, but couldn't get it to fit.  Now your post has me thinking it might be taken from the far side of the course looking across the front of the 5th green with the 6th tee just beyond.  Not sure the course in the distance matches up though.

It seems virtually certain that the fifth photo is looking across the front of the 5th green with the 6th tee just beyond and the 3rd hole in the distance.

Ed,

Agreed, you can see the third green in the far background, with front left bunker, beyond the trees which would separate 6 green from the third hole.  The slope of 2 fairway would seem to match up with the downhill nature of the background in the right hand side of the pic through the trees. 

Cheers


Mark Saltzman

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Re: Help needed identifying Perry Maxwell photos (ANGC)
« Reply #30 on: March 19, 2013, 11:30:52 PM »
Here is a complete list of all of the courses with photos in Maxwell's collection:

Alwoodley
ANGC
Brook Hollow
Crystal Downs
Cypress Point
Dornick Hills
Gulph Mills
Maidstone
Melrose
Merion
Oklahoma City
Pine Valley
Prairie Dunes
Southern Hills
Twin Hills

Does anyone think this photo might be from one of those courses?



Ed, there is a resemblance (to some extent) to the 2nd at Southern Hills.  The creek matches as does the tilt of the land.  Certainly not a perfect match.

V. Kmetz

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Re: Help needed identifying Perry Maxwell photos (ANGC)
« Reply #31 on: March 20, 2013, 12:21:10 AM »
Ed:

In the third photo, there appears to be a building off in the distance on the horizon.  Perhaps someone knows what multi-story buildings (the Bon-Air Vanderbilt, Forrest Hills Hotel?) were in Augusta at that time, which can help us identify the angle the photo is taken from.

Sven

[Edit:  I'm pretty convinced that photo is taken in a southwesterly direction with the Forrest Hills Hotel showing up on the horizon.  Is this the same mound from the first two pictures?]

This is spot on, imo...I really think that pictures 5 and this one are taken from the same
"The tee shot must first be hit straight and long between a vast bunker on the left which whispers 'slice' in the player's ear, and a wilderness on the right which induces a hurried hook." -

V. Kmetz

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Re: Help needed identifying Perry Maxwell photos (ANGC)
« Reply #32 on: March 20, 2013, 12:22:55 AM »
or near same location, one points southwest off the back right of the 5th green (with the car) and the 3rd one definitely looks from 5 green over 6 tee into distance of #3...

FWIW...

cheers

vk
"The tee shot must first be hit straight and long between a vast bunker on the left which whispers 'slice' in the player's ear, and a wilderness on the right which induces a hurried hook." -

Ed Oden

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Re: Help needed identifying Perry Maxwell photos (ANGC)
« Reply #33 on: March 20, 2013, 02:27:43 PM »


Ed, there is a resemblance (to some extent) to the 2nd at Southern Hills.  The creek matches as does the tilt of the land.  Certainly not a perfect match.

Mark, good to hear from you.  The 2nd hole at Southern Hills doesn't have a hill/hump like that on the right side, so I don't think it is a possibility. 

I have been under the impression that this photo shows a par 4 from the tee.  But that was probably because I had it stuck in my mind from the start that it was the 3rd hole at ANGC with the creek running in front of the tee.  When I zoom in on the photo, it seems pretty clear to me now that it is either from the tee on a par 3 or the approach on a par 4 or 5.  Maybe others realized that from the beginning.  But for me it changes the mindset a bit.  Let me know if that leads to any new ideas.


Bart Bradley

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Re: Help needed identifying Perry Maxwell photos (ANGC)
« Reply #34 on: March 20, 2013, 09:20:25 PM »
Ed:

Help me out.  What is left of the trees in that photo...a river, a lake, or is that just mist.  It looks like there is a gap in the trees along that area which makes me believe it is a river or something of that sort.

Bart

Chris Clouser

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Re: Help needed identifying Perry Maxwell photos (ANGC)
« Reply #35 on: March 20, 2013, 09:42:51 PM »
Ed,

I'll have to look and see if there is anything that I have that resembles that hole on any of the Maxwell stuff I have accumulated.  It looks like that hole was just probably included in the Augusta photos and should not have been.  In some ways it reminds me of the 4th at Hillcrest in Bartlesville, but I'll have to look at some photos to see if that fits, but I don't remember a mound on the right being that pronounced.

It is definitely not the 2nd at Southern Hills.

Chris

Ed Oden

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Re: Help needed identifying Perry Maxwell photos (ANGC)
« Reply #36 on: March 20, 2013, 10:33:20 PM »
Ed:

Help me out.  What is left of the trees in that photo...a river, a lake, or is that just mist.  It looks like there is a gap in the trees along that area which makes me believe it is a river or something of that sort.

Bart

Bart, it's hard to say for sure, but my best guess is that it is the next hole.  I suspect the next tee box is behind the green.

Dunlop_White

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Re: Help needed identifying Perry Maxwell photos (ANGC)
« Reply #37 on: March 20, 2013, 11:38:18 PM »
I'll throw this out! The first two pics are around the 17th green. But the next three pics are around 5th green. The undulations, the knobby surrounds, the car, the road, the exit, and the structure lead me to this conclusion.

The pic of the hole is not at Augusta.

Ed Oden

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Re: Help needed identifying Perry Maxwell photos (Maidstone now up)
« Reply #38 on: March 20, 2013, 11:58:40 PM »
Dunlop thanks for chiming in.  I think that is pretty much where we are at based on the responses so far.  A little doubt on the last photo, but everything else seems fairly set.

Time to move on to the next course.  There are two photos of Maidstone in the collection.  I'm guessing the first one is of the 10th hole but don't have any idea what we are looking at in the second...





Let me know if anyone has any thoughts.


Chuck Glowacki

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Re: Help needed identifying Perry Maxwell photos (Maidstone now up)
« Reply #39 on: March 21, 2013, 04:22:35 AM »
Ed:  Might want to check with J. Warne on this, but since it was included in the ANGC collection and Forrest Hills has
been identified, it looks like #3 at Forest Hills an uphill par 3.  The clearing behind the green is the rest of the golf
course.  Wrightsboro Rd would be behind the tee box.

jeffwarne

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Re: Help needed identifying Perry Maxwell photos (Maidstone now up)
« Reply #40 on: March 21, 2013, 07:35:07 AM »
Ed,
First one is par 10 10 from left rough
Second one is 13 par 5 ,looking towards 9 green
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

jeffwarne

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Re: Help needed identifying Perry Maxwell photos (Maidstone now up)
« Reply #41 on: March 21, 2013, 07:48:57 AM »
Ed:  Might want to check with J. Warne on this, but since it was included in the ANGC collection and Forrest Hills has
been identified, it looks like #3 at Forest Hills an uphill par 3.  The clearing behind the green is the rest of the golf
course.  Wrightsboro Rd would be behind the tee box.

Chuck,
The hole you're thinking of is NLE as the college used the land paralleling Wrightsboro road to build an athletic center and student housing in the 80's.
They destroyed 2 geen in an earlier renovation aimed at length. It's since been moved right.They also eliminated #3,4, and 5 (The Al Watrous Double eagle par 5 hole)
They then replaced 3,4,5 with 3 very awkward holes though the woods on the side of a hill to the right of where the 16th and 17th hole are.


The hole you're thinking of was actually #4 as the old course started with 3 par 4's assuming you're referring to the nine near Wrightsboro.

I don't think that's Forrest Hills though as there was no mound on the right, the bunkering very different and par 4 like, and the course would actually go up and over the hill as it as was a par 5 whose tee shot started in the same direction, before curving left.The tee was located beyond the green.

Harrison Minchew of the Palmer did the last of the awful ill funded renovations which included moving several greens and shortening a hole leaving a 250 yard walk to the next tee, that coupled with nonoverseeded lightning fast ultradwarf greens have rendered the course unplayable and customerless.
A real shame-the largepractice green/chipping/pitching area was my favorite place to do short game work and some genius cut it up into various small slithers that a ball won't stay on and no meaningful practice including putting can be had on.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2013, 07:58:46 AM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Gene Greco

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Re: Help needed identifying Perry Maxwell photos (Maidstone now up)
« Reply #42 on: March 21, 2013, 07:57:32 AM »
Ed,
First one is par 10 10 from left rough
Second one is 13 par 5 ,looking towards 9 green

Concur.

And, yes, I have made a 10 on 10.  :-\
"...I don't believe it is impossible to build a modern course as good as Pine Valley.  To me, Sand Hills is just as good as Pine Valley..."    TOM DOAK  November 6th, 2010

Ed Oden

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Re: Help needed identifying Perry Maxwell photos (Melrose now up)
« Reply #43 on: March 24, 2013, 03:38:50 PM »
Next up are a few pictures of Melrose.  Based on the original plan for the course...



...I'm guessing that these first two photos show the approach to the par 5 6th hole, which runs along the parallels the left side of the course map and is the only hole I see where the river crosses diagonally with fairway on the other side short of the green...






Sadly, the original 2nd was lost many years ago (by 1948 at the latest) when the Tookany Creek Parkway was built.  So I'm not expecting that anyone will have any personal experience to confirm whether my guess is correct.

The next photo, however, seems to me likely to me to be the par 4 2nd hole which has the club entrance road running along the left side (see the bottom left corner of the map)...




It looks like this hole still exists largely in its original form, so perhaps someone can confirm.

I have one more old photo of Melrose that wasn't a part of Maxwell's collection which Joe Bausch posted on another thread...




I suspect this is the par 3 7th hole shown in the very top left hand corner of the map.  If so, it was also lost when the parkway came through.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts.


Joe Bausch

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Re: Help needed identifying Perry Maxwell photos (Melrose now up)
« Reply #44 on: August 27, 2013, 10:49:50 AM »

The next photo, however, seems to me likely to me to be the par 4 2nd hole which has the club entrance road running along the left side (see the bottom left corner of the map)...



It looks like this hole still exists largely in its original form, so perhaps someone can confirm.


Ed, I believe this would be the current 13th hole.  I played there again on Saturday under sunny conditions.  Melrose is so treed it can be hard to get decent photos.  Here is the approach to the 13th (the original 2nd):



And the view from just over the green:



The green there now sure seems much smaller than the one in your old photo above.

For all the photos I put into an album for Melrose, go here:

http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/albums/JCMelrose/
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Joe Bausch

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Re: Help needed identifying Perry Maxwell photos (Melrose now up)
« Reply #45 on: August 27, 2013, 10:53:05 AM »
Next up are a few pictures of Melrose.  Based on the original plan for the course...



...I'm guessing that these first two photos show the approach to the par 5 6th hole, which runs along the parallels the left side of the course map and is the only hole I see where the river crosses diagonally with fairway on the other side short of the green...






I'm confident you are correct Ed about these two pics.
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Joe Bausch

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Re: Help needed identifying Perry Maxwell photos (Melrose now up)
« Reply #46 on: August 27, 2013, 10:54:59 AM »
I have one more old photo of Melrose that wasn't a part of Maxwell's collection which Joe Bausch posted on another thread...



I suspect this is the par 3 7th hole shown in the very top left hand corner of the map.  If so, it was also lost when the parkway came through.


Likely correct here too, Ed.  Nice job.   :)

Note:  I think that parkway went in before 1940.
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Bob Harris

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Re: Help needed identifying Perry Maxwell photos (ANGC)
« Reply #47 on: August 27, 2013, 11:37:15 AM »


Ed, there is a resemblance (to some extent) to the 2nd at Southern Hills.  The creek matches as does the tilt of the land.  Certainly not a perfect match.

Mark, good to hear from you.  The 2nd hole at Southern Hills doesn't have a hill/hump like that on the right side, so I don't think it is a possibility. 

I have been under the impression that this photo shows a par 4 from the tee.  But that was probably because I had it stuck in my mind from the start that it was the 3rd hole at ANGC with the creek running in front of the tee.  When I zoom in on the photo, it seems pretty clear to me now that it is either from the tee on a par 3 or the approach on a par 4 or 5.  Maybe others realized that from the beginning.  But for me it changes the mindset a bit.  Let me know if that leads to any new ideas.



I think this is the 17th at Melrose (original 11th).  Compare it to a recent photo of the hole from Joe Bausch's collection:

http://www.myphillygolf.com/uploads/bausch/Melrose/pages/page_109.html

Mark McKeever

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Re: Help needed identifying Perry Maxwell photos (Melrose now up)
« Reply #48 on: August 27, 2013, 11:44:20 AM »
Great observation Bob!

MM
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

Joe Bausch

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Re: Help needed identifying Perry Maxwell photos (Melrose now up)
« Reply #49 on: August 27, 2013, 12:47:12 PM »
Great observation Bob!

MM

Agreed.  There is little doubt Ed's pic is the current 17th hole (original 11th) at Melrose:



@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection