AAC III- Public Voting Results are IN!

[Alex Miller]

I can't see any hole numbers on #14 - instead of guessing - can we get an indication of which is #1 & #10?

looks like #1 is just north of range, going NE, 1-9 is the east butterfly loop, 10-18 goes west up and around

I believe this is correct.

[Alex Miller]

How much weight will be placed in the "sunset golf"? That was one thing I was very proud of in my routing. Probably weak in other areas though. The sheer variety in the routings is amazing. Great work by all!

Good question.

I can't dictate how everyone should weight their impressions, however personally I thought the "sunset golf" was an important wrinkle to this contest. I think there is a ton of variety in what's presented here and some very creative loops. For me, it's definitely a factor!

I'll also add that I think green/tee transitions should not be discounted, and close attention should be paid as ease of walk to the next tee as well as proximity. (my opinion: do with it what you wish)

[Alex Miller]

In honor of the godfather of the Armchair contest, I present you with the Goerges Green Map:

Jim, was it raining today or what???  are you going to do the spaghetti plot as well?

Did not rain for me! 

Thanks Jim, that is a tremendous work and a fascinating collection/application of data. Quite a variety in routings on display here, somewhat to my surprise!

[Garland Bayley]

I'm impressed. I can already see it will not be so easy to eliminate courses to create my top five as it would have been in past contests.

[David_Elvins]

Great work everyone!  Some serious talent there.

[Dieter Jones]

Ok done. I ranked them all against Half a dozen criteria and totalled them up. Then i went back and checked the top 10 to confirm my initial feelings were correct.   Took me about 4 hours all up and I feel I gave all 24 entries equal consideration. There were a couple I struggled with due to the poor quality of the copy but it did not influence my top 5.

[Jim Colton]

Are we okay to discuss favorite holes? I thought about putting together an eclectic 18 using no more than 1 hole from any one entry.

[Alex Miller]

Are we okay to discuss favorite holes? I thought about putting together an eclectic 18 using no more than 1 hole from any one entry.

Sure!

Though try to include your other 7 favorites so everyone gets some love. 

[Josh Tarble]

The holes that stuck out for me were 10 and 12 on course 13 and I thought hole 8 was pretty cool on course 17.  There are a ton more but those were the first couple I saw.

[Steve Lang]

  Alex,

From casual reading of the thread, seems there's still some confusion on "vote for 8, top 5 go to finals" ...  edit

5 picks on a ballot

[Steve Lang]

How much weight will be placed in the "sunset golf"? That was one thing I was very proud of in my routing. Probably weak in other areas though. The sheer variety in the routings is amazing. Great work by all!

Good question.

I can't dictate how everyone should weight their impressions, however personally I thought the "sunset golf" was an important wrinkle to this contest. I think there is a ton of variety in what's presented here and some very creative loops. For me, it's definitely a factor!

I'll also add that I think green/tee transitions should not be discounted, and close attention should be paid as ease of walk to the next tee as well as proximity. (my opinion: do with it what you wish)

Alex, I'd agree with your transition  comment.  The "walk in the park" metric (was one of several metrics used by one of the past aac2 judges).  I'm negative on long green to tee walks, especially for the middle tees.   I found there were also some tee placements too close to greens or on a side opposite a hazard that folks could get bombed at by approaches from the group behind...

p.s.  I note that there are many green sites where folks agreed were of interest with two or more dots present, but they came to the point from different angles.

[Alex Miller]

Alex,

From casual reading of the thread, seems there's still some confusion on "vote for 8, top 5 go to finals" ...

I would read closer. There was 1 question and it's since been addressed. People are clear that they are choosing 5.

[Steve Lang]

   alex, thanks, top 5 on a ballot


p.s. was jim colton's the first entry?

[Garland Bayley]

 alex, thanks, top 5 on a ballot


p.s. was jim colton's the first entry?

No, it doesn't look like Jim's is the first entry to me. However, it looks like Jim's is one of the first five I eliminated from consideration.

[Alex Miller]

 alex, thanks, top 5 on a ballot


p.s. was jim colton's the first entry?

No. He was the first to submit his, but these are randomly ordered, for precisely this reason!

[Jim Colton]

With Alex's permission, I am in the process of building a blog to collect feedback on the AAC entries. Each entry will have its own blog post, and includes a form that allows the contestants to get direct feedback on their designs. I feel the feedback from the GCA community is one of the best parts about the contest.

Please dedicate the time to review each entry and provide some frank and honest commentary!

http://golfaac.blogspot.com/?view=sidebar

I will try to add the other entries by the end of the day. Contestants you will get a google doc share notification for a spreadsheet that collects the form responses. I think you can even set-up notification e-mails anytime there is a new entry.

EDIT: 11 up for now...will add the rest later (piano recital)

[Gary_K]

I still think a lot of these holes are 1/2 mile long.   

[Alex Miller]

I still think a lot of these holes are 1/2 mile long.   

I think there are some that seem to stray from the scale, but not many. Not every image is of the whole site: some are zoomed in. Those holes definitely look longer, but it's because the image is of a smaller area.

[Brett_Morrissy]

I have been thru all the submissions, so much work has been put in, obviously some more than others, but congratulations to everyone, a great effort.

I found it much easier to review each routing on my iPad, as it was very easy to zoom in, and pick up all the details where provided. I wonder also how many of the entries that have additional information that will only be available to the judges, and whether all the entrants realised this was the case. It was frustrating to not have some information provided, hole numbers, par and yardages in particular. I actually felt I needed to print off the routings, and measure some holes using the scales provided.


I am surprised by the shortage of short holes, not as many short p4s as I'd thought there would be, or short p3s, does anyone have any theories as to why this is the case? With such a diverse and large site, it seems strange that this would be an element that the entrants would want to include. Also with the size of the site, I found it puzzling as to why some chose to locate many of their holes very close together, or just focus on one small section of the property, in such a spacious environment, avoiding a feeling of claustrophobia would also have been high on the list. Luckily my vote is just one of many 

I have some holes that I would love to play listed below, beginning with some of the short p4s that stood out and then some holes that stood out to me personally. I had a negative view if an entrant didn't include 1-2 short holes.

Short par 4: Entrant(e) and Hole(#)
E4 - 15
E5 - 12 plays downhill
E7 - 7
E8 - 17
E10 - 9
E13 - 10
E16 - 3
E17 - 8
E18 - 12
E19 - 7 plays uphill, so may not be short, but looks like a fun tee shot
E20 - 17
E21 - 16
E22 - 15
E23 - 2 not sure of yardage, but assume it is short.
E25 - 11

And just some general other holes that for me stood out as looking like fun to play(couldn't leave anyone out ):
E1 - 13
E2  - 6
E3 - 15
E4 - 15 - great stretch 14-16
E5 - 10
E6 - 15
E7 - 4
E8 - 10
E9 - 12
E10 - 14
E11 -16
E12 -12
E13 -13
E14 -18
E15 -4
E16 -14
E17 -3
E18 -6
E19 -18
E20 -18
E21 -12
E22 - 14
E23 -3
E24 -3
E25 - 10

[Don_Mahaffey]

Ultimately I can't tell you how to pick your favorites. I think the idea is to pick the 5 entries which you would most like to see built. The routing is obviously a crucial element, but if a contestant was able to provide more context to help give you a better idea of what their course would look like, then feel free to reward them for it. It's your choice in the end.

This is where I get confused as I thought all along the first phase was a routing test. Its no big deal and people can pick what they want as after all its only a contest. I didn't realize that it was going to be about jamming as much info onto a page as possible as I thought I read somewhere it was about providing a stick routing.

But, I understated that everyone is entitled to do what ever they want and I also acknoledge that I may have completely missed comprehending what this first phase was really about.

Good job Alex and please don't take my comments above as a criticism. You've put in a lot of time and I appreciate what you've done and I wish everyone who took the time to compete the best of luck. 

[Steve Lang]

  Perhaps there should be a discussion on the basic elements for the next AAC, such as :

1. routing
2. scorecard
3. hole description / features
4. greens description / features
5. misc. setting infrastructure

in my mind routing is king... all else variables of the mind and the superintendent's set-up

[Alex Miller]

You guys would be surprised at the voting. Sometimes less is more...

I appreciate the comments, but feel no need to defend myself. There were reasons why we limited it to one page for this round, and I described exactly what I was working on and eventually submitted as everyone worked along. I'm glad there's been so much interest and discussion so far, but rather than re-hash things that have been discussed, let's remain focused on what has been presented here.

[Jim Colton]

All 25 entries are up on the new blog. Please provide your feedback to the contestants there.

http://golfaac.blogspot.com/?view=sidebar

[Matthew Essig]

I have been thru all the submissions, so much work has been put in, obviously some more than others, but congratulations to everyone, a great effort.

I found it much easier to review each routing on my iPad, as it was very easy to zoom in, and pick up all the details where provided. I wonder also how many of the entries that have additional information that will only be available to the judges, and whether all the entrants realised this was the case. It was frustrating to not have some information provided, hole numbers, par and yardages in particular. I actually felt I needed to print off the routings, and measure some holes using the scales provided.


I am surprised by the shortage of short holes, not as many short p4s as I'd thought there would be, or short p3s, does anyone have any theories as to why this is the case? With such a diverse and large site, it seems strange that this would be an element that the entrants would want to include. Also with the size of the site, I found it puzzling as to why some chose to locate many of their holes very close together, or just focus on one small section of the property, in such a spacious environment, avoiding a feeling of claustrophobia would also have been high on the list. Luckily my vote is just one of many 

I have some holes that I would love to play listed below, beginning with some of the short p4s that stood out and then some holes that stood out to me personally. I had a negative view if an entrant didn't include 1-2 short holes.

Short par 4: Entrant(e) and Hole(#)
E4 - 15
E5 - 12 plays downhill
E7 - 7
E8 - 17
E10 - 9
E13 - 10
E16 - 3
E17 - 8
E18 - 12
E19 - 7 plays uphill, so may not be short, but looks like a fun tee shot
E20 - 17
E21 - 16
E22 - 15
E23 - 2 not sure of yardage, but assume it is short.
E25 - 11

I find it funny that a few of my favorite short 4's are not on that list like E2 - 12, E11 - 4, and E12 - 16

[Dieter Jones]

quote brett morrisey: I am surprised by the shortage of short holes, not as many short p4s as I'd thought there would be, or short p3s, does anyone have any theories as to why this is the case? With such a diverse and large site, it seems strange that this would be an element that the entrants would want to include.

Yes, i expected more short par 4's in particular given the amount they are discussed here. Same with short 3's. Maybe I'm unduly influenced by Barnbougle where 4,12,15 and 7 are amongst my favourite holes.

Brett, my only theory for the lack of these holes was the vastness of the site and the rolling nature of the topography lead people to overlook these opportunities. I had to keep telling myself that the fairway I just imagined in my head was actually 250 yards wide and it might be a good idea to zoom in and examine the topography in finer detail. Any time I've done this type of exercise in the past I have worked on a very limited site (eg rerouting an existing suburban layout).

I agree with a lot of your choices Brett. I will throw in a nomination for the best 6 hole stretch

 13-18 on entrant 8.

 11 to 16 on couse 4 and 7 to 12 on course 7 too.