How good is Pasatiempo? How good was it?

[Bart Bradley]

Enjoyed my lovely day at Pasatiempo last week.  Some terrific holes but unfortunately, some holes severely affected by housing and OB.

I really enjoyed the back nine routing around the barancas.  

1, 2,3, and 4 are a terrific start.  I understand 6 and 7 used to have a shared fairway which sounds wonderfully interesting (especially compared to the bowling alley of trees on 7 now).  10 and 11 are epic.  16 magical.

Of course, the housing is now very intrusive and significantly impacts holes like 6, 7, and 17.  There must be OB within a few yards left of the 10th green, ugh.

So, how good is it now?  How good was it?  Did it rival Cypress Point when built?

Best,

Bart

[Pete Lavallee]

Bart,

I have always loved Pasa despite the concerns you've mentioned. As far as the houses go, those lots would certainly have been OB before they were built so that seems like a complete non isssue to me. On 6 and 17 you can favour the non housiing side of the fairway if you're worried about going OB. The 7th hole is pretty tight, but much better than it was 20 years ago when it was a virtual bowling alley. It is a shame that the open nauture of the 1, 6,7, 8 & 9 has been lost; but that has to be a very small demerit in my opinion. The best part is it 's better than Cypress Point because both you and I can play there  every day!

[Bill_McBride]

I've been playing there for over 50 years and have honestly never paid attention to OB except on # 6.  The fairways are wide enough to play safely away and still have an angle. 

The back nine remains my favorite in golf, slightly ahead of TOC. 

[Joel_Stewart]

It's a fantastic golf course and setting.   I've been bitching to Golf Digest and panelists for years that it's a top 100 course but I've given up.  It was previously in the top 100 but now it's ranked 115th.

I personally don't think people understand how great it is due to the 6th and 7th holes and every other hole has so many quirks and angles.  Factor in the greens at today's speed and it's unplayable for most those who come in with no ground game.

The par 3's are complete ball busters, especially on the front.

[Mike Schott]

I don't recall the houses being a serious issue at Pasa. I did pull my tee shot too far left and OB on17 but I deserved the penalty.

[Matt Bosela]

I love reading praise like this - I'm heading out to that area of California for the first time in May and I'll definitely makes plans to visit Pasa while I'm there.

[Alex Miller]

I don't recall the houses being a serious issue at Pasa. I did pull my tee shot too far left and OB on17 but I deserved the penalty.

Me too! Tripled 17 and turned a 73 into a 76. Sigh...

6 and 7 would definitely play better with a shared fairway because the OB is definitely in play, but I think it looks narrower than it plays. I also understand the safety issues and the perceived need for those trees, but that doesn't mean I have to like them. 

Wasn't conscious of the OB on 10, and since the fairway and green both slope left I was aiming nowhere near the OB, even with a wedge in my hand.

[David Kelly]

I agree with Joel that not only is it a fantastic golf course, it is a fantastic setting.  6 & 7 are the only places on the course where I feel hemmed in - the tee shot on 6 is one of the most awkward I've played and the trees on 7 are annoying and take away from the great green complex on that hole.

But playing through the neighborhood and crossing the street numerous times is one of the charms of playing at Pasatiempo.

[Scott Warren]

Pasa is among the best 10-12 courses I've played.

Few courses have as many sublime holes, so I can forgive it having a few too many trees on 6 & 7.

And the back nine is up there with the best few nine hole loops I've ever played.

It's a much better course than many people give it credit for.

[John Kavanaugh]

An enjoyable opening hole is very important to me and Pasa falls far short. I also did not care for the par three 18th as a finisher. The course is solid but not stand alone great.  

Note:  I played before the recent restoration.

[Mac Plumart]

Bart...how good do you think it is?



I've only been 'round once...but I fell in love with it right away.  The road crossings, houses, and net are distractions...but if you can not focus on that...and/or accept them as quirks/charms of the course, I think the golfer will see how excellent the golf is out there.

I loved the bunker placement and the routing, as people have mentioned, particularly the back nine and the baranca.  I first noticed how you could use fairway contours to get the ball to feed to specific portions of the green on hole #2.  This isn't a one hole anomaly.  Ground game, bump and run, fairway contours tied in with green contours line up to highlight unique strategies to get close the hole.  The bunker placement adds interest to this aspect of the course.

Like I said, I've only been around once...but I can see that these things would, most likely, line up to make for endlessly entertaining golf.

[Bill_McBride]

An enjoyable opening hole is very important to me and Pasa falls far short. I also did not care for the par three 18th as a finisher. The course is solid but not stand alone great.  

Note:  I played before the recent restoration.

How would you feel about the first hole as a par 5 from the top tee?

[SL_Solow]

Barney;  Do you dislike 18 as a hole, that is to say, is it a bad par 3 hole or do you object to a short  par 3 with a funky green as an 18th hole?

[John Kavanaugh]

Barney;  Do you dislike 18 as a hole, that is to say, is it a bad par 3 hole or do you object to a short  par 3 with a funky green as an 18th hole?

I simple mindedly don't like it as a finishing hole. It beats it being the first hole.

[Jed Peters]

An enjoyable opening hole is very important to me and Pasa falls far short. I also did not care for the par three 18th as a finisher. The course is solid but not stand alone great.  

Note:  I played before the recent restoration.

John:

Couple of good points. Even post renovation, 1 is neither a good short par 5 or a good long par 4. It's just "meh".

18, even post renovation, really isn't that great of a hole as it sits either now or pre-reno; the green is too severe. I've played it in normal conditions, firm conditions, wet conditions, tournament conditions.

However, some of the greatest holes I have ever played exist on that course. I don't think there are too many better holes out there than 2, 3, or 10-16.....

[Alex Miller]

I love the back 9, but 10-16 are certainly better than the last 2, IMO. I'd love to play from 17 tee to 18 green sometime.

[Matthew Essig]

I love the back 9, but 10-16 are certainly better than the last 2, IMO. I'd love to play from 17 tee to 18 green sometime.

(Not trying to thread-jack) Where would you find another hole, if you combined 17 and 18?

[Tim Leahy]

If the first hole makes the course for you, you must not like St. Andrews, Augusta, Riviera or Pebble either. Really narrows your field.

[Tim Leahy]

I like 18 too.
It requires some finesse at the end of the round.

[John Kavanaugh]

If the first hole makes the course for you, you must not like St. Andrews, Augusta, Riviera or Pebble either. Really narrows your field.

I take it that you have not played Riviera. I haven't the others you mention but love Augusta and St Andrews in concept.

[Bart Bradley]

Enjoyed my lovely day at Pasatiempo last week.  Some terrific holes but unfortunately, some holes severely affected by housing and OB.

I really enjoyed the back nine routing around the barancas.  

1, 2,3, and 4 are a terrific start.  I understand 6 and 7 used to have a shared fairway which sounds wonderfully interesting (especially compared to the bowling alley of trees on 7 now).  10 and 11 are epic.  16 magical.

Of course, the housing is now very intrusive and significantly impacts holes like 6, 7, and 17.  There must be OB within a few yards left of the 10th green, ugh.

So, how good is it now?  How good was it?  Did it rival Cypress Point when built?

Best,

Bart

There's housing on #7?  Never noticed it.

Dave:

You must be a Moron.

I said that housing has affected 7...the housing on the left of 6 forces trees on the right of 6 to keep people from blasting into 7 fairway.  Those are the same trees that are on the right of 7.  At least, maybe.

If I specifically said there were houses on 7, I was wrong...but the playing corridors on 6 and 7 are certainly impacted by the housing.
 .

But I appreciate your keen input.

All:

I really think that there are some great holes at Pasatiempo, but I cannot get entirely past the net, fences, houses, OB stakes.  I spoke to a very knowledgeable GCA critic who said, "if you can't think of 100 places that you'd rather play in the US, golf is seriously in trouble"  or something quite close to that.  I think that 2 is fabulous.  10 and 11 are epic.  6 and particularly 7 and 17 deserve better fates.  Overall, I think it deserves a spot on the lower half of the Classic Top 100.

Bart

[Rob Rigg]

One of my favorite inland walks - What a wonderful course with some of the most amazing green complexes I have ever seen.

The housing does intrude on a couple of holes but I don't think it impacts the overall quality of the golf experience - If you are in Cali it is a must play.

[Tim Leahy]

If the first hole makes the course for you, you must not like St. Andrews, Augusta, Riviera or Pebble either. Really narrows your field.

I take it that you have not played Riviera. I haven't the others you mention but love Augusta and St Andrews in concept.

I have played Riviera and Pasatiempo. I didn't think much of the first hole at either but the view was better at Pasa.

[John Kavanaugh]

If the first hole makes the course for you, you must not like St. Andrews, Augusta, Riviera or Pebble either. Really narrows your field.

I take it that you have not played Riviera. I haven't the others you mention but love Augusta and St Andrews in concept.

I have played Riviera and Pasatiempo. I didn't think much of the first hole at either but the view was better at Pasa.

Congrats. I am at a loss for words.

[David_Elvins]

Bart,

How do the fences, houses and OB stakes and occasional narrowness compare to Merion in your opinion?