Innisbrook-Copperhead

[Dean Stokes]

Unless I simply missed it in threads about Florida golf, why no love on here for the Copperhead course.  The PGA tour players seem to hold it very high esteem and there is a lot of praise for all the holes, the contouring of the fairways, elevation change and the green complexes. I have never played it so cannot really comment although it does look like a good Florida course from what I can see from the sofa! So what gives gents? Thanks.

[Bill_McBride]

It's a Florida course that plays like a Florida course.  Lots of water, soft, much mounding.  I haven't been there for years but wasn't terribly impressed then. 

[Dean Stokes]

So it's a Florida course that doesn't play like Pine Tree, Seminole or many more Florida courses that are firm and fast, have plenty of water,undulating greens and are highly regarded? Interesting.

[JR Potts]

Because it's a perfectly fine golf course - but that's it - perfectly fine.  I could play it again, or not play it again.   Either way, I'm okay with it.  I think that kind of ambivalence doesn't deserve much discussion.

[Dean Stokes]

So why the love from the pros?

[Matthew Sander]

There are quite a few tour courses that the pros rave about that don't get much, if any, love from this group. My guess is the pros like Copperhead because it can be very difficult, but it remains predictable. Not much in the way of quirk or awkwardness. I don't recall the greens being overly contoured, with 15 being a notable exception.

After attending the event while living in the area, I was looking forward to playing Copperhead. I had heard of the sand ridge that runs from Innisbrook's location up through the central part of the state, but I was still surprised at the nature of the property when seeing it for the first time. As Bill McBride stated earlier, there is plenty of water on the course, but visually there is little clue that you are in Florida.

Unfortunately, our day at Copperhead was canceled by Tropical Storm Barry. Before I was able to return, we'd moved.

[Dean Stokes]

Luke Donald who lives in Florida said that most of the time you really don't feel like you are in Florida.....elevation change, cantered fairways that you have to shape your ball into to stay in the fairway and tree lined fairways on most holes. Doesn't sound like your typical Florida course. Several others from different parts of the world said much the same. Their commentary would make me want to play this course yet zero enthusiasm on this site. Very odd. I guess I will have to make the trip and report back!

[Gary Slatter]

I played it every day for three weeks a few years ago, and found it to be a superb strategic course.  It should get some love, it's more of a Georgia type course.   Maybe too many pine trees for this site.

[RJ_Daley]

Ed Lawrence Packard designed many very good, solid, golf courses of classic playing strategy, that don't seem to be on the tips of many tongues to the top 100 seeker crowd.  Yet, those that play the game seriously, seem to tend towards appreciating the good solid, no bombastic, but solid golf challenge that Ed Lawrence developed as his hallmark and brand. 

My own home course is a very typical Ed Lawrence Packard design, and supposedly the first he really brought his Son Roger along for the ride.  Our course was much enjoyed by the players in our State Am a few years ago, and Bemowski (the winner) was the only one to break par with -1  that year - a year he went on to win the national senior am.  And it is the same situation, where good players all seem to like our Packard course.  I've never been to Innisbrook.  But, I see many familiar looks and features when watching it on TV tournaments that remind me of our course.  Packard has quite a interesting learning curve if you read his bio here:

http://golfarchitects.lib.msu.edu/packardel/packardelbio.htm

[Ben Kodadek]

It's a Florida course that plays like a Florida course.  Lots of water, soft, much mounding.  I haven't been there for years but wasn't terribly impressed then. 

Bill, I think you have mistaken Copperhead for another course.  Water only comes into play on one hole on the front (the 3rd) and three holes on the back.  The course sits very nicely on the terrain with little to no mounding whatsoever.   It's an excellent strategic test.   It will likely be playing pretty fast and firm this week with the winter we have had down here.   

[Matthew Sander]

It's a Florida course that plays like a Florida course.  Lots of water, soft, much mounding.  I haven't been there for years but wasn't terribly impressed then. 

Bill, I think you have mistaken Copperhead for another course.  Water only comes into play on one hole on the front (the 3rd) and three holes on the back.  The course sits very nicely on the terrain with little to no mounding whatsoever.   It's an excellent strategic test.   It will likely be playing pretty fast and firm this week with the winter we have had down here.   

Ben,

What are your favorite holes at Copperhead? While attending the tournament holes 5 and 6 really stood out for me.

[PCCraig]

Luke Donald who lives in Florida

Luke Donald lives mostly in Chicago, but spends time in FL in the Winter.

I played Copperhead maybe 15 years ago but I remember a good amount of the holes and that I thought it was pretty good. Not great, but good.

The pros like it because it's all in front of you and pretty straightforward. So, it's more about the quality of their shots and less about strategy and angles.

[Sean Leary]

I always assumed that it was all about ball striking rather than a putting contest.  Seems like the pros like that.

[Howard Riefs]

I played Copperhead in December on my annual golf trip with my dad. It has some good, surprising elevation for a Florida course, most noticeably on the challenging #5 and the par 3 #8 (if memory serves).

All in all, it’s a nice looking course, pretty good but not very inspirational. At least the birdwatching is first rate.

A few photos from the round:


4




5

Check out that finish!





13




9




Birdwatching






Why GPS and lasers were invented

[Brian Finn]

I played Copperhead about two years ago, and found it to be pretty interesting and fun.  Mr. Packard made nice use of the property (IMHO), using elevation change and ridges not only for some great tee & green sites, but also for some neat sloped / canted fairways.  While I only played it once, I recall the course required thoughtful shot-making, and felt pretty balanced in that it did not seem to overly favor a draw or fade.  The fairways were pretty firm and allowed substantial roll-out.  The greens were a bit burned-out (almost down to the dirt – it was just after the tour event) when I visited, so I don't think I got a great feel for them.  I know they had some decent back to front slope and were very quick (as you'd expect at that time).  The 5th (which Matthew  & Howard both mentioned) was a very cool Par 5 that played up over a pretty good rise, then back down and to the left to a well-guarded green.  It was reachable for some pros, but with a blind second shot.  I enjoyed it.  Like many courses, it would probably benefit from tree removal.  Although it won’t make many gca site-members’ top 10 lists, Copperhead is better than many annual tour stops.

[Jim_Coleman]

    Just another golf course with tree lined fairways.   Who says the pros like it?  They like every course the week they're there.  It's called gratitude.

[Jason Topp]

Here is Blue Golf's aerial tour.

http://course.bluegolf.com/bluegolf/course/course/innisbrookcopper/aerial.htm

The course looks tough but I would love to try it someday.

[John_Conley]

One reason it doesn't get a lot of love on this site is that it is too difficult for most players to enjoy. 

[Dean Stokes]

So it's a solid course....you better hit the ball well and most likely straight otherwise you are in trouble....seems like somewhere worth trying. Jim....if you listen to the interviews you will hear the players say they like it. They do every year here.They certainly do not say that every week they just do not bad mouth a course out of respect for the members holding an event,the sponsors and the tour officials!

[David Kelly]

So it's a solid course....you better hit the ball well and most likely straight otherwise you are in trouble....seems like somewhere worth trying. Jim....if you listen to the interviews you will hear the players say they like it. They do every year here.They certainly do not say that every week they just do not bad mouth a course out of respect for the members holding an event,the sponsors and the tour officials!

What the PGA pros say seems to hold a lot of weight with you so I would say you should definitely check it out.  I tend to use their opinions as a counter indicator if I pay any heed to it at all.

I haven't played it since the 1990s but I played it quite a bit at that time. I didn't think the greens were that interesting when I played it.  I'd put it in the top 10 in the Tampa area, towards the bottom.

[Howard Riefs]

    Just another golf course with tree lined fairways.   Who says the pros like it?  They like every course the week they're there.  It's called gratitude.

The pros say it.

Copperhead ranked #9 as the course they "most enjoy playing each year," according to a Golf World poll of 81 PGA Tour pros in 2012.

Anonymous pro comments: "Best course we play in Florida" ... "nicely designed greens with good undulations" ... "Doesn't feel like you're in Florida" because of "elevation changes" ... "benefits from the neighborhood: Florida swing courses are so mediocre." ... Mostly though, the tour's finest call it a "good, solid course" because in player parlance, you "can't fake it out there."

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-courses/2012-01/photos-best-tour-courses#slide=9

[Dean Stokes]

So it's a solid course....you better hit the ball well and most likely straight otherwise you are in trouble....seems like somewhere worth trying. Jim....if you listen to the interviews you will hear the players say they like it. They do every year here.They certainly do not say that every week they just do not bad mouth a course out of respect for the members holding an event,the sponsors and the tour officials!

What the PGA pros say seems to hold a lot of weight with you so I would say you should definitely check it out.  I tend to use their opinions as a counter indicator if I pay any heed to it at all.

I haven't played it since the 1990s but I played it quite a bit at that time. I didn't think the greens were that interesting when I played it.  I'd put it in the top 10 in the Tampa area, towards the bottom.

David, although this is now going to veer slightly off topic which was why Copperhead gets little love here when the tour players seem to really like it......I do hold weight on their thoughts on golf courses. Firstly they play hundreds of courses a year all over the world.....they played hundreds growing up...all mainly with a scorecard in hand which means they have to use strategy to play the golf course in the lowest number of shots possible. Pros also generally hit the ball consistently and fairly straight so they see the course as it is 'supposed' to be played ie. if the hazards/bunkers are correctly placed. I have never understood the opposition on this site to courses the pros seem to like I also dont particularly agree that golfers only like courses where they only play well - I have played many courses badly but can still tell if they are actually good courses ( i think ).

[David Kelly]

Pros also generally hit the ball consistently and fairly straight so they see the course as it is 'supposed' to be played ie. if the hazards/bunkers are correctly placed...I also dont particularly agree that golfers only like courses where they only play well - I have played many courses badly but can still tell if they are actually good courses ( i think ).

Your second sentence contradicts your first one. 

Because they are playing for a living many pro golfers are adverse to golf courses where the rub of the green, the caprice of nature, and quirkiness play a large part  That is why you hear a number of professional golfers speak up about their dislike or ambivalence to links golf.   In contrast those are exactly the type of courses I seek out and enjoy most.

[Matthew Rose]

Pros also generally hit the ball consistently and fairly straight so they see the course as it is 'supposed' to be played ie. if the hazards/bunkers are correctly placed...I also dont particularly agree that golfers only like courses where they only play well - I have played many courses badly but can still tell if they are actually good courses ( i think ).

Your second sentence contradicts your first one. 

Because they are playing for a living many pro golfers are adverse to golf courses where the rub of the green, the caprice of nature, and quirkiness play a large part  That is why you hear a number of professional golfers speak up about their dislike or ambivalence to links golf.   In contrast those are exactly the type of courses I seek out and enjoy most.

Got it in one.

Basically, professionals want luck to be as little an influence as possible on the outcome of a shot. So they want it straight ahead, right in front of them, well-defined, and when possible, completely about the aerial game. Bad things happen to the ball when it hits the ground.

For the rest of us, the luck makes it fun. The green fee is the same for me whether I shoot 72 or 82.

[Dean Stokes]

I was unaware that many tour players don't like links golf. Interesting.  I presume that if you rate courses on the quirk and luck involved in getting 'some rub of the green' that your best courses list will look surprisingly different to most. Looking forward to playing Copperhead someday.