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John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Is Golfweek helping the game or just helping themselves?
« on: March 10, 2013, 11:47:07 PM »
I don't see it given that the Internet now provides their once important niche of reporting obscure tournament results. What good is this pamphlet mailed out for free to every course in the land?  What am I missing besides the genius of Rude?

When is the last time any of you where so bored that you actually read a copy while waiting for a tee time?

Seriously, if I can be shown of even one use for this rag that is not self serving I will embrace their values with all my soul.

Note:  I will kiss Brad's ass from here to eternity if someone can tell me how that will help the game.

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Golfweek helping the game or just helping themselves?
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2013, 12:03:29 AM »
grammar and spelling help for the elderly?
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Michael Whitaker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Golfweek helping the game or just helping themselves?
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2013, 12:08:24 AM »
John - you have more than established the fact that you are not Golfweek's target consumer, so I doubt that they give a rat's ass what you think about the magazine, how they operate their ratings panel, or how they sell advertising. I've quoted my Grandmother on this site many times, "that's why they make chocolate and vanilla."

We get it... you don't like or respect Golfweek or their golf ratings panel. Boo hoo. I doubt they (or anyone else) are losing too much sleep over that.
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Jim Nugent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Golfweek helping the game or just helping themselves?
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2013, 12:17:45 AM »
I don't see it given that the Internet now provides their once important niche of reporting obscure tournament results. What good is this pamphlet mailed out for free to every course in the land?  What am I missing besides the genius of Rude?

When is the last time any of you where so bored that you actually read a copy while waiting for a tee time?

Seriously, if I can be shown of even one use for this rag that is not self serving I will embrace their values with all my soul.

Note:  I will kiss Brad's ass from here to eternity if someone can tell me how that will help the game.

If GW is all self-serving, how does it survive financially? 

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Golfweek helping the game or just helping themselves?
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2013, 12:26:15 AM »
The mafia survived selling protection. Did that make them good for business?  I have a feeling that I am wrong about the value of Golfweek's service. Please show me the error in my ways and I will shut the hell up.

I enjoy walking the streets of Vegas and seeing free ads for porn sites laying under my feet. How is seeing the latest issue of Golfweek in the stall of my favorite shitter at the club any different?  Please...one example. They don't give swing tips.

Sam Morrow

Re: Is Golfweek helping the game or just helping themselves?
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2013, 12:35:22 AM »
The mafia survived selling protection. Did that make them good for business?  I have a feeling that I am wrong about the value of Golfweek's service. Please show me the error in my ways and I will shut the hell up.

I enjoy walking the streets of Vegas and seeing free ads for porn sites laying under my feet. How is seeing the latest issue of Golfweek in the stall of my favorite shitter at the club any different?  Please...one example. They don't give swing tips.

I thought I was the only one who had a favorite shitter at every club!

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Golfweek helping the game or just helping themselves?
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2013, 12:37:07 AM »
grammar and spelling help for the elderly?

Please, help me. I would enjoy a rewrite.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Golfweek helping the game or just helping themselves?
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2013, 12:47:45 AM »
So, in your very humble opinion, are the people that read that magazine and enjoy it somehow not validated for your approval?  How many folks buy it, get it as part of their dues as members of a State association, or some other organization that has a cooperative arrangement with Golfweek?  The distribution of the magazine is apparently widespread and significant enough to attract commercial advertizing to sell products, which in turn pays salaries and expenses, allowing people to buy cars and such, who incidentally drive on roads that get worn out, and need your fine company to repair or regrade, no?  

I'm thinking the stall and surrounds you occupy in your clubhouse crapper don't stink to high heaven due to the presents of a Golfweek magazine stuck to the sole of your shoe.   ::)
« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 12:49:24 AM by RJ_Daley »
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Golfweek helping the game or just helping themselves?
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2013, 12:49:24 AM »
What is most funny is like with four new courses opening each year I really need help in finding them. God forbid I miss the Bingo Bango Big 18 on Big Foot Casino opening in Can'tBeFound Plantation in Wyoming.

Please, one example.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Golfweek helping the game or just helping themselves?
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2013, 12:55:42 AM »
So, in your very humble opinion, are the people that read that magazine and enjoy it somehow not validated for your approval?  How many folks buy it, get it as part of their dues as members of a State association, or some other organization that has a cooperative arrangement with Golfweek?  The distribution of the magazine is apparently widespread and significant enough to attract commercial advertizing to sell products, which in turn pays salaries and expenses, allowing people to buy cars and such, who incidentally drive on roads that get worn out, and need your fine company to repair or regrade, no?  

I'm thinking the stall and surrounds you occupy in your clubhouse crapper don't stink to high heaven due to the presents of a Golfweek magazine stuck to the sole of your shoe.   ::)

Someone who doesn't own property on Wild Horse may have a more valid opinion. I will never understand why Golfweek chose Wild Horse over Rustic Canyon.  It must have been the proximity to the Reagan Library.

Jim Nugent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Golfweek helping the game or just helping themselves?
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2013, 01:11:31 AM »
Dave, they apparently have published GW since 1990.  That's a helluva long a time to carry a struggling property, if it's not holding up at least some of its own weight. 

Does GW have any paid subscribers? 

John,
The mafia survived selling protection. Did that make them good for business?

Do you think the analogy fits?

I've never seen the paper edition of GW.  But online I enjoy the course rankings and Brad's writing.  I get value out of the web edition. 

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Golfweek helping the game or just helping themselves?
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2013, 01:19:16 AM »
Jim,

I agree that Golfweek is one of the finest blogs I have ever linked. The idea that they deserve special status because they send out free pamphlets is what I don't understand. When Apple spell checks your name you should get a clue.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Golfweek helping the game or just helping themselves?
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2013, 01:19:35 AM »
How was WH 'chosen' over RC?  What was the 'choice'.  I know that WH came into being about 4 years sooner than RC.  I know that WH had already captured some attention from the afficionadi that were already making the trek up to SHGC and were regularly stopping by WH on the way in '98-02, before RC was a glint in Geoff Shack's eye.  And, they are two very different courses in desig/terraine and plan of development, IMHO.  What is your point, BTW?

I'll sell it to you for $40K, then you can build your dream get-away on a consistently ranked GW best modern.  ;D 8) :o
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Golfweek helping the game or just helping themselves?
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2013, 01:30:18 AM »
How was WH 'chosen' over RC?  What was the 'choice'.  I know that WH came into being about 4 years sooner than RC.  I know that WH had already captured some attention from the afficionadi that were already making the trek up to SHGC and were regularly stopping by WH on the way in '98-02, before RC was a glint in Geoff Shack's eye.  And, they are two very different courses in desig/terraine and plan of development, IMHO.  What is your point, BTW?

I'll sell it to you for $40K, then you can build your dream get-away on a consistently ranked GW best modern.  ;D 8) :o

That is a fair price.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 07:46:22 AM by John Kavanaugh »

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Golfweek helping the game or just helping themselves?
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2013, 01:36:33 AM »
Dave, thanks for a far more cogent evaluation of the value or lack thereof, of GW.  Comoditize, monetize and socialize, turning rater card gratuities into a carte blanche to get more free stuff into the hands of indolent nuveau riche.   ;D ;D ;D
« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 01:39:57 AM by RJ_Daley »
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Jim Nugent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Golfweek helping the game or just helping themselves?
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2013, 01:58:54 AM »
Dave, do you know if GW makes money?  I'm also curious how many paid subscribers it has. 

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Golfweek helping the game or just helping themselves?
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2013, 02:17:21 AM »
Dave, time for me to fess up.  Until I just skimmed the other thread, I didn't even know that GW has some new scheme or requirement for raters (or some of them) to pay.  And, to be honest, I get Golf Digest and Golfweek mixed up all the time.  I didn't even realise until I just looked in the throne room that it is Digest I'm getting lately, free.  I used to get GW free through our State Association membership, I guess. I don't even know at what point they switched.

Honestly, I don't give a darn about any of this.  I just felt like responding to Barney's initial beard pulling and condescension and premise that he deems the entire publication and the efforts by those that put it out to be meritless. 
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Bruce Wellmon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Golfweek helping the game or just helping themselves?
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2013, 07:46:27 AM »
The GW business model is broken because it was never based on consumer demand.
The whole model was to cheerlead for new real estate development in the go-go era and sell ads to the developers.  
I thought that was or is "Links" Magazine.

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Golfweek helping the game or just helping themselves?
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2013, 09:55:19 AM »
I see that Readers' Digest has bankrupted for the second time.  Did they help readers or just help themselves?

Bogey
« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 10:18:37 AM by Michael_Hendren »
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Golfweek helping the game or just helping themselves?
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2013, 10:14:18 AM »
John,

I suppose there's no correlation whatsoever between this rant and the fact that Victoria National dropped 13 spots and is now in the dreaded "Next 100"?   ;)
« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 10:24:21 AM by Jud Tigerman »
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Golfweek helping the game or just helping themselves?
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2013, 10:24:46 AM »
Wow, Jud, you really don't understand Barney or this issue at all, do you?  You had to be either kidding or disingenuous with that remark...Barney is the last guy in the workd who would think that way. 

smiley face duly inserted...
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Golfweek helping the game or just helping themselves?
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2013, 10:27:50 AM »
Jud, Shivas is correct:  Barney avoided the rush by hating Golfweek early. 

Bogey
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Golfweek helping the game or just helping themselves?
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2013, 10:36:00 AM »
Dick:  Take a look at this week's GW.  Every single ad is clubs, grips, balls, shoes, or resorts, with 2 exceptions in the middle:: KPMG and Stifel, one major golf sponsor and one dabbling for the first time (I actually spoke with Mr. Kruszewski about this late last year).  Not a single booze ad.  No cars.  No watches.  Hell, Ralph Lauren who has ads plastered everywhere doesn't have an ad in GW.  Why?  Because its not a magazine that general golf consumers actually care about or read.  


I've always liked that about GW, and that's why I'm a subscriber, plus it's a weekly. Love the digital format.  8)
It's all about the golf!

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Golfweek helping the game or just helping themselves?
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2013, 11:04:29 AM »
John,

I suppose there's no correlation whatsoever between this rant and the fact that Victoria National dropped 13 spots and is now in the dreaded "Next 100"?   ;)

I do believe my disappointment towards Golfweek is well documented from back when Victoria National was ranked in the top 20 modern.  I personally wish I could release these feelings because some of my best friends are raters for Golfweek and I hate that anything I have to say about the process may hurt them.  

I must love playing golf and being a member at private clubs given as much of my life has been dedicated towards each.  It hurts to see a magazine make a money and membership grab towards one of the prime demographics left.  I know for a fact that people have joined the ranks of Golfweek and in turn quit their own club because now they had their need to play filled through the magazine.  

I believe that if I were a rater I would have never joined Dismal River at the time I did because I would not have had any reason to pay dues to a national destination club.  I would like to believe that if I had not joined Dismal River at the time that I did the Doak course would not be opening this year.  That would have been a harm to the game affecting thousands of golfers both now and in the future.  

The sole reason I did not write The Prairie Cub a check for $15,000 when I visited before they had first opened and become a member there was because they could not tell me that they would not comp raters.  That is a harm to them.  I didn't care about Dismal's policy at the time because I knew the Golfweek guys hated the place so wouldn't play for free if offered.

I remember when Kingsley first opened and everyone from the rater demographic loved the place and said they would join if this or that.  I can only imagine the memberships they lost because those same people had their future travels to private courses booked.  

The simple indisputable fact that is that with so few courses being opened it must be questioned why the number of raters is being raised. I believe it is because each rater is a profit center for the magazine.  It is my opinion that those profits should be directed towards golf courses and the people who run them.

Why given the other indisputable fact that you do not need to be a rater to access 99% of the courses in this country do raters even have to identify themselves?  We all know that there are 300 lovers of golf who could rate courses anonymously and do a perfectly fine or even better job.  There just isn't any money in that.

I do not have the same problem with Golf Digest because they provide worth to the courses they rank.  Getting on their list sell more memberships than any cost associated with hosting their panel.  Once again to bring this back to me, there is absolutely no doubt that the ranking of Victoria National in the top 100 of Golf Digest played a role in my joining the club despite living 70 miles away.  Digest delivers value.

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Golfweek helping the game or just helping themselves?
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2013, 11:49:52 AM »
For the record I'm not a rater either and I'm with John on the freebie rater access thing.  I'd rather pay my way and not be beholden to any rag or design aesthetic (in other words I come by my buttboyness honestly.... 8)....)
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

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