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Matthew Petersen

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: 2013 Golfweek Rankings Now Available...
« Reply #50 on: March 08, 2013, 03:31:47 PM »
I think the Arizona courses you can play list is pretty good.

1) We-Ko-Pa (Saguaro), Fort McDowell (m)
2) Quintero GC, Peoria (m)*
3) Golf Club at Dove Mountain (Saguaro/Tortolita), Marana (m)
4) We-Ko-Pa (Cholla), Fort McDowell (m)
5) Troon North (Monument), Scottsdale (m)
6) Superstition Mountain GC (Prospector), Superstition Mountain (m)
7) Troon North (Pinnacle), Scottsdale, (m)
8) Talking Stick (North), Scottsdale (m)
9) Ventana Canyon (Mountain), Tucson (m)
10) TPC Scottsdale (Stadium), Scottsdale (m)
11) Ak-Chin Southern Dunes, Maricopa (m)
12) Boulders Resort (North), Carefree (m)
13) Superstition Mountain GC (Lost Gold), Superstition Mountain (m)
14) Raven GC at Verrado, Buckeye (m)
15) Golf Club of Estrella, Phoenix (m)
16) Talking Stick (South), Scottsdale (m)
17) La Paloma GC (Ridge/Canyon), Tucson (m)
18) Grayhawk (Talon), Scottsdale (m)
19) Los Caballeros GC, Wickenburg (m)*
20) Grayhawk (Raptor), Scottsdale (m)
21) Boulders Resort (South), Carefree (m)
22) Gold Canyon Golf Resort (Dinosaur Mountain), Gold Canyon (m)*
23) SunRidge Canyon, Fountain Hills (m)
24) Arizona National, Tucson (m)
25) Wildfire at Desert Ridge (Faldo), Phoenix (m)

Of those, I have not played Superstition Mountain Lost Gold, La Paloma, or Los Cab.

Only a couple things I'd really quibble with. I think Southern Dunes is too low. And Quintero is much too high, though that's for my taste and I can see why most people really like it. More than anything, I'm just surprised the same people who can rate Saguaro #1 would rate Quintero #2.

Surprised not to see Seven Canyons or Vista Verde.

Might have to think on it and post my own list.

Matthew Petersen

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: 2013 Golfweek Rankings Now Available...
« Reply #51 on: March 08, 2013, 03:44:44 PM »
Think this would be my list for AZ:

1. We-Ko-Pa (Saguaro)
2. Dove Mountain
3. Troon North (Monument)
4. Southern Dunes
5. Troon North (Pinnacle)
6. We-Ko-Pa (Cholla)
7. Boulders Resort (South)
8. Grayhawk (Raptor)
9. Talking Stick (North)
10. Ventana Canyon (Mountain)
11. Golf Club of Estrella
12. Boulders Resort (North)
13. Raven GC at Verrado
14. Quintero
15. Seven Canyons
16. Wildfire at Desert Ridge (Faldo)
17. Vista Verde
18. TPC Scottsdale (Stadium)
19. Superstition Mountain GC (Prospector)
20. Grayhawk (Talon)
21. Trilogy at Vistancia
22. TPC Scottsdale (Champions)
23. StoneRidge
24. ASU Karsten
25. Papago

Mac Plumart

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: 2013 Golfweek Rankings Now Available...
« Reply #52 on: March 08, 2013, 04:57:32 PM »
Southampton makes an appearance!!!
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Mark Pritchett

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: 2013 Golfweek Rankings Now Available...
« Reply #53 on: March 08, 2013, 05:31:05 PM »
Southampton makes an appearance!!!

As it should! 

Bill Gayne

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: 2013 Golfweek Rankings Now Available...
« Reply #54 on: March 08, 2013, 06:55:32 PM »
$250 is a pittance by golf standards.

Bill McKinley

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: 2013 Golfweek Rankings Now Available...
« Reply #55 on: March 08, 2013, 07:26:32 PM »
Wow Elyria CC bursting onto the scene!! I didn't see that one coming. Doing the 10 round game with The Country Club, Firestone South, and Elyria I would go with TCC 6, FCC 3, ECC 1. No disrespect to Elyria intended, but I don't believe it is in the same class as those other 2.
2016 Highlights:  Streamsong Blue (3/17); Streamsong Red (3/17); Charles River Club (5/16); The Country Club - Brookline (5/17); Myopia Hunt Club (5/17); Fishers Island Club (5/18); Aronomink GC (10/16); Pine Valley GC (10/17); Somerset Hills CC (10/18)

Cliff Hamm

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: 2013 Golfweek Rankings Now Available...
« Reply #56 on: March 08, 2013, 07:37:40 PM »
No mention of Whitinsville in Massachusetts.  Now in the top 100 classic at 97.  And it is only 9 holes!!!  Spectacular and often available on Golf Now for about $60.

Jeff Shelman

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: 2013 Golfweek Rankings Now Available...
« Reply #57 on: March 08, 2013, 09:19:50 PM »
Matthew,

I think Quintero is too high even in your revised list. But that's just me.

Andy Troeger

Re: 2013 Golfweek Rankings Now Available...
« Reply #58 on: March 08, 2013, 09:55:47 PM »
What's so great about Troon North these days? With all the housing and not really anything that special about the designs, both courses are far closer to the bottom of my AZ list than the top. Quintero wouldn't be anywhere close to my #2, but it would be well ahead of either course at TN.

I think the gap between #1 and #2 for AZ public golf is pretty large, no matter what comes in at #2. For me its Dove Mountain.

Chris DeNigris

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: 2013 Golfweek Rankings Now Available...
« Reply #59 on: March 09, 2013, 10:22:09 AM »
What's so great about Troon North these days? With all the housing and not really anything that special about the designs, both courses are far closer to the bottom of my AZ list than the top. Quintero wouldn't be anywhere close to my #2, but it would be well ahead of either course at TN.

I think the gap between #1 and #2 for AZ public golf is pretty large, no matter what comes in at #2. For me its Dove Mountain.

Agree with you about TN and Quintero...esp TN.  Although I think I like Quintero more than most here.

While I like Saguaro a lot I think it's significantly overrated by many (as has been debated here a bit before). Really good but really not great- esp compared to many of CCs other offerings. Just too many ho-hum holes and flaws to elevate it to all-world status, IMO.

Haven't played Dove but I would put Southern Dunes and VV just behind WS for publics in the Phoenix area.

Lou_Duran

  • Total Karma: -2
Re: 2013 Golfweek Rankings Now Available...
« Reply #60 on: March 09, 2013, 11:18:33 AM »
Texas lists are a bit out of whack in my estimation.  
« Last Edit: March 09, 2013, 11:20:24 AM by Lou_Duran »

Garland Bayley

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: 2013 Golfweek Rankings Now Available...
« Reply #61 on: March 09, 2013, 11:42:58 AM »
I can't wait to see the "Next 100" lists for Modern and Classic.

I wonder if Dismal moved higher?



Is 197 higher?
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Mac Plumart

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: 2013 Golfweek Rankings Now Available...
« Reply #62 on: March 09, 2013, 01:32:42 PM »
Nope.  196 last year.
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Gene Greco

  • Total Karma: 0
"...I don't believe it is impossible to build a modern course as good as Pine Valley.  To me, Sand Hills is just as good as Pine Valley..."    TOM DOAK  November 6th, 2010

astavrides

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: 2013 Golfweek Rankings Now Available...
« Reply #64 on: March 09, 2013, 05:03:27 PM »
It would be interesting to see the rankings of every course that has enough votes to be ranked.  I guess the ones that ranked near the bottom wouldn't be too happy.  But that doesn't stop Golf Digest from giving 1 star out of 5 to some courses in their 'places to play' guides.  Although I guess the ones that got only 1 star from golf digest aren't likely to be the ones that would advertise in golf magazines, so what does golf digest care?

At least you could tell us how many courses received enough votes, couldn't you, Brad?  If there are 1238 rated classic courses and over 2000 modern courses, for example, you would feel pretty good about being in the top 100.

Mike Hendren

  • Total Karma: -1
Re: 2013 Golfweek Rankings Now Available...
« Reply #65 on: March 09, 2013, 09:01:24 PM »
$250 is a pittance by golf standards.

Excellent. If you have no problem paying $250 for nothing, I, just like GW, will gladly take it!   I'll send you an IM with my address.  ... :)

Shivas, what were monthly dues in January and February and how many times did you tee it up?

Bogey
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

John Kavanaugh

  • Total Karma: 21
Re: 2013 Golfweek Rankings Now Available...
« Reply #66 on: March 09, 2013, 10:03:30 PM »
We all know guys who quit either their private clubs or paying for yearly passes because of the access and free golf they received after becoming raters. It is hard to believe that the added cost now associated with ratership will not lead to more clubs losing even more revenue. The idea that we need more raters while fewer and fewer courses are being built can not be defended.

John Kavanaugh

  • Total Karma: 21
Re: 2013 Golfweek Rankings Now Available...
« Reply #67 on: March 09, 2013, 10:28:02 PM »
Barney: I never bought the lost revenue argument.  Nobody ever gave a Rater a free tee time that could have been taken by a paying  customer unless they knew exactly what they were doing.    They can always say no.  Courses don't have to fork over free tee time, just like I don't have to fork over cash for the right to be able to cajole my way into them. They're both examples of fully-informed rational actors using their free will.  

David,

So all these raters who travel on business and then catch a course while out of town wouldn't be golfing at all?  At the very least they would be paying and playing public access courses. There is the harm.

Please, I personally have played for free as a guest of a rater when I would have payed and played.

All these guys who go on fantastic road trips thanks to their rater access would either stay home and support their local club or book trips like civilians. By your logic everyday a rater receives a comp is a day he wouldn't be golfing.

My personal biggest issue with raters and access is that it dilutes the value of membership. I doubt the game can survive if no one is motivated to be a member of a club.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2013, 10:31:21 PM by John Kavanaugh »

John Kavanaugh

  • Total Karma: 21
Re: 2013 Golfweek Rankings Now Available...
« Reply #68 on: March 09, 2013, 10:35:31 PM »
OK, fair enough. You made your case.  Since I agree that most if not all of those rounds were going to be played somewhere, you're absolutely right.  You've convinced me.

Like you said, most. Rater 109 is so cheap he probably would find a new hobby.

Jud_T

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: 2013 Golfweek Rankings Now Available...
« Reply #69 on: March 10, 2013, 11:16:56 AM »
Sounds like I'm the only one here who's been paying full freight for my belt notching and Golfweek sub.  That either makes me extremely virtuous or a complete schmuck.  My money's on the latter...
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

John Kavanaugh

  • Total Karma: 21
Re: 2013 Golfweek Rankings Now Available...
« Reply #70 on: March 10, 2013, 11:21:32 AM »
Sounds like I'm the only one here who's been paying full freight for my belt notching and Golfweek sub.  That either makes me extremely virtuous or a complete schmuck.  My money's on the latter...

Don't forget about paying for gas on those long drives to Kingsley. The real sacrifice is the cost of travel.

astavrides

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: 2013 Golfweek Rankings Now Available... New
« Reply #71 on: March 10, 2013, 11:23:12 AM »
.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2013, 11:48:40 PM by astavrides »

Jud_T

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: 2013 Golfweek Rankings Now Available...
« Reply #72 on: March 10, 2013, 11:26:50 AM »
Sounds like I'm the only one here who's been paying full freight for my belt notching and Golfweek sub.  That either makes me extremely virtuous or a complete schmuck.  My money's on the latter...

Don't forget about paying for gas on those long drives to Kingsley. The real sacrifice is the cost of travel.

hence the BMW 335D.  38 mpg with the cruise control set at 79 on US 131N and 425 foot pounds of torque to blow by the a&# doing 55 in the passing lane...  8)
« Last Edit: March 10, 2013, 11:53:59 AM by Jud Tigerman »
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

John Kavanaugh

  • Total Karma: 21
Re: 2013 Golfweek Rankings Now Available...
« Reply #73 on: March 10, 2013, 11:37:09 AM »

My personal biggest issue with raters and access is that it dilutes the value of membership. I doubt the game can survive if no one is motivated to be a member of a club.

The game would survive if private clubs did not exist.  It just might not be played by as many people, especially as many rich people.

Anyone who spends more than $2,000 a year on a hobby, the true minimum cost of being a rater, is rich.  How would golf survive if every golfer that spent more than $2000 per year on access quit?

J_ Crisham

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: 2013 Golfweek Rankings Now Available...
« Reply #74 on: March 10, 2013, 12:07:08 PM »
Barney: I never bought the lost revenue argument.  Nobody ever gave a Rater a free tee time that could have been taken by a paying  customer unless they knew exactly what they were doing.    They can always say no.  Courses don't have to fork over free tee time, just like I don't have to fork over cash for the right to be able to cajole my way into them. They're both examples of fully-informed rational actors using their free will.  

David,

So all these raters who travel on business and then catch a course while out of town wouldn't be golfing at all?  At the very least they would be paying and playing public access courses. There is the harm.

Please, I personally have played for free as a guest of a rater when I would have payed and played.

All these guys who go on fantastic road trips thanks to their rater access would either stay home and support their local club or book trips like civilians. By your logic everyday a rater receives a comp is a day he wouldn't be golfing.

My personal biggest issue with raters and access is that it dilutes the value of membership. I doubt the game can survive if no one is motivated to be a member of a club.
John,
            Do 1500 raters nationwide (just a guess GD, GW , Links) really move the bar that much from an annual expenditure standpoint? I completely agree that raters who have no private membership dues are probably getting by  less expensively as a traveling golfer. If you are on the private side your dues, food minimum,are essentially the same. I agree that you are not utilizing the caddies or carts service at your club but that is about the only negative impact I can think of. If your premise is that you have to be a member at a private club to become a rater the problem I envision is that some guys just like to play at their home club all the time with familiar guys. I know a guy at Olympia Fields who is a great player and gregarious guy who just has no interest in seeing what is outside his club despite being offered a rater position on a panel.  There are probably alot of those guys out there. Are there enough private club guys who want to be raters and go on the road to the far flung places in Montana, Nebraska,etc? I don't know that answer. Care to come up and" rate" Beverly this Summer? I understand we are at #101- we need a little nudge to get us over the hump!    ;)