How many sets of tees are really needed?

[Paul Jones]

With the recent topics of what yardage do you play from and Augusta National only have 2 sets of tees...

How many sets of tees are actually needed?

What yardages would you have at each set?

What about a combination sets of tees on the score card?

I personally like 3 sets of tees: Red, White and Blue.  I am also not apposed to creating a different yardages on the score card by using a combination of 2 sets of tees.  That way there would only be 3 set of tee markers, but 4 different yardages on the scorecard.

On side note, I also like the old metal balls with a spike in the ground for tee markers.

[Garland Bayley]

At most two sets of tees. The yardage shouldn't matter. The scorecard gives variations on the par of the hole based on handicap. After all, that is what they have been doing at the major championships for years when they reduce par from 72 to 70 at certain courses.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Most courses are perfect with three sets of tees, men's medal, visitors' and social, and ladies. Daily tee markers should not be more than 10 yards distant from the measured plate. If you want to have a separate card for the winter, fine, but it is non-qualifying so nobody's handicap goes up or down as a result.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Generally, I recommend 4 sets of tees under 7000 yard tips and 5 sets on courses over 7000 yards.  If the course is under 6500 from the tips, three might be okay. In some ways, I would recommend six, based on how tee shot length clusters around six basic areas, but that gets too confusing, so we accept some variation on the so called senior tees.  That group comprises about 20% of golfers, and their tee shots range from 170-210, so we split the difference there.

As I alluded on the Augusta thread, golfers seem to more and more play where they have fun, and that seems to split up into many pretty predictable groups - with tees shots around 290, 260, 230, 200-170 (as per above) and 140 yards (usually women) It is surprising how tee shot distance, while naturally spread all over the board, has clusters centered on those distances.

I have heard the argument for one or two tees used, based on tradition, or based on rear tee players not liking the look of forward tees out in front of them, but as near as I can tell, the tradition was to basically screw anyone not man enough to play "the whole course."  I favor setting tees based on the anticipated customer of today, not some mythical customer who we think we should force into playing for punishment value rather than fun, like Melvyn might.

but, maybe I am just crazy like that!

[Thomas Dai]

In the UK, at most places I've played the men's summer daily tee's (normally yellow) are usually significantly ahead of the summer competition tee's (normally white).

This distance is often very considerable and is a total pain when clubs won't let more accomplished members/visitors play off the whites.

Sometimes, usually at the more premium level courses, there is also an extra far back competition tee (normally blue), which seems to be the preserve of infrequent elite competitions.

My preference is for those of a low enough hcp to be able to play off the whites all the time if they wish. If not possible for some justifiable reason, then for the yellows-whites to be placed much closer together, tee wear and space permitting.

All the best.

[Paul Jones]

I was lucky enough to play The Blessings Golf Club in Fayetteville, AR.  They had many sets of tees; however, the Pro Shop would place a totem on each hole where they would recommend the members to play from depending on conditions.  The Pro told me that he always try to make sure the members will hit a different club on each Par 3.

[Paul Jones]

Generally, I recommend 4 sets of tees under 7000 yard tips and 5 sets on courses over 7000 yards.  If the course is under 6500 from the tips, three might be okay. In some ways, I would recommend six, based on how tee shot length clusters around six basic areas, but that gets too confusing, so we accept some variation on the so called senior tees.  That group comprises about 20% of golfers, and their tee shots range from 170-210, so we split the difference there.

As I alluded on the Augusta thread, golfers seem to more and more play where they have fun, and that seems to split up into many pretty predictable groups - with tees shots around 290, 260, 230, 200-170 (as per above) and 140 yards (usually women) It is surprising how tee shot distance, while naturally spread all over the board, has clusters centered on those distances.

I have heard the argument for one or two tees used, based on tradition, or based on rear tee players not liking the look of forward tees out in front of them, but as near as I can tell, the tradition was to basically screw anyone not man enough to play "the whole course."  I favor setting tees based on the anticipated customer of today, not some mythical customer who we think we should force into playing for punishment value rather than fun, like Melvyn might.

but, maybe I am just crazy like that!

Jeff,

For courses over 7000 yards, I would leave off the back set of tees markers and just add the yardage on the card.  That way they can walk to the back of the furthest tee box and play the "entire" course.  That way, you could have tee markers at 7000 and most would play the second set of tee markers at 6500.

I would also have a another set of tees markers at 5500 and a combination of tee markers on the card for 6000 yards.

[Jeb Bearer]

My home course (Trillium Links in NC) has 4 sets of tees (from 4500 to 6500 yards) and combinations on the scorecard between every set. You can play virtually any yardage you want with a USGA slope/course rating. Personally, I think the course could do with one less set of tees, especially as short as it is, but I do like the idea of a combo set.

[John Kavanaugh]

Generally, I recommend 4 sets of tees under 7000 yard tips and 5 sets on courses over 7000 yards.  If the course is under 6500 from the tips, three might be okay. In some ways, I would recommend six, based on how tee shot length clusters around six basic areas, but that gets too confusing, so we accept some variation on the so called senior tees.  That group comprises about 20% of golfers, and their tee shots range from 170-210, so we split the difference there.

As I alluded on the Augusta thread, golfers seem to more and more play where they have fun, and that seems to split up into many pretty predictable groups - with tees shots around 290, 260, 230, 200-170 (as per above) and 140 yards (usually women) It is surprising how tee shot distance, while naturally spread all over the board, has clusters centered on those distances.

I have heard the argument for one or two tees used, based on tradition, or based on rear tee players not liking the look of forward tees out in front of them, but as near as I can tell, the tradition was to basically screw anyone not man enough to play "the whole course."  I favor setting tees based on the anticipated customer of today, not some mythical customer who we think we should force into playing for punishment value rather than fun, like Melvyn might.

but, maybe I am just crazy like that!

Thank you.  5 sets at over 7,000 yds is correct.  So many different golfers of varying ages and health play that we should all be able to rip a driver and have birdie putts.  That is not possible with only two or three sets of tees.

Like I have said before, I am 53 yrs old with quickly deteriorating skills but I still play with some of the best amateurs in the country and my old buds who are pushing 80.  Each of us should have and are willing to pay for a set up that challenges every club in the bag.  Par does matter because birdies are so much fun.  I don't have a friend in the world that is proud of a net birdie.  Sometimes a good par but never a net birdie.

btw.  My home course has over 120 tee boxes and I have played from every single one of them.

[Matthew Petersen]

I was surprised when visiting Talking Stick North this weekend that they only have three sets out. Seems unusual for a modern course.

Tips are 7133, Middle 6510, Forward 5532. The card also lists a Middle/Forward combo tee of 5945.

[Paul Jones]

I was surprised when visiting Talking Stick North this weekend that they only have three sets out. Seems unusual for a modern course.

Tips are 7133, Middle 6510, Forward 5532. The card also lists a Middle/Forward combo tee of 5945.

Matthew,

That is what I like, don't clutter the course up with tee markers and just add 1 or 2 additional combo yardages on the score card.  However, I think I am in the minority on this...

[Jeb Bearer]

I was surprised when visiting Talking Stick North this weekend that they only have three sets out. Seems unusual for a modern course.

Tips are 7133, Middle 6510, Forward 5532. The card also lists a Middle/Forward combo tee of 5945.

Matthew,

That is what I like, don't clutter the course up with tee markers and just add 1 or 2 additional combo yardages on the score card.  However, I think I am in the minority on this...

I agree with you here. However, with regards to this example, how many golfers would be unable to play from 5500? Women, juniors, beginners, etc. Is this significant enough to warrant a more forward set? I would guess it depends most heavily on the carries to the fairway, since the front tee demographic is not necessarily worried about par or regulation.

[Jud_T]

None.  Winner of last hole chooses where to put a peg in on the next hole.  If your first thought is 'well how am I going to post a score for handicap'? you have some serious soul searching to do.

[Jeff_Brauer]

If its clearly marked, I have no problem with combo tees such as TSN.  Those yardages sound about right.

Most operators would prefer four sets to five, just to move one less set of markers every day.  If you can equitably provide those five tees with three markers or four, so much the better.

It seems like it would take some deep thought on each course to make it work.  It appears the combo at TSN must have about half the tees from both the 5500 and 6500 yardages.  Is that done "odd-even" or similar, or do they look at every hole to get a better balance of hole lengths than you might get from a strict pattern?  

As per Jeb's comments below, I believe almost all courses need a set of tees well under 5000 as forward tees.

[Jeb Bearer]

Jud, good point.

[Patrick_Mucci]

At most two sets of tees.

GJ,

As usual, you and all the other morons, especially those not attending tomorrow night's moronic dinner and celebration, don't get it.

What about Women's tees ?  What about Senior and Junior Tees ?

Should clubs abandon the needs of those dues paying members ?

When they order a burger in the grille, don't they get the buns and garnish, or just the patty ?

Aren't they entitled to a quality product, not one ill suited to their needs.

You really need to attend the dinner so that we can elect you to the category of "Supreme" moron.


The yardage shouldn't matter.

YIKES, Shirley you can't be serioius.
Of course it matters.

The score card gives variations on the par of the hole based on handicap.

Then you'd need a score card about 12" by 12"

After all, that is what they have been doing at the major championships for years when they reduce par from 72 to 70 at certain courses.

That's great for 3 or 4 courses with play limited to the best golfers in the world, but, what about all of the other members and their guests.

I think you may qualify for invitations to the gathering of morons for years in advance

[Matthew Petersen]

I was surprised when visiting Talking Stick North this weekend that they only have three sets out. Seems unusual for a modern course.

Tips are 7133, Middle 6510, Forward 5532. The card also lists a Middle/Forward combo tee of 5945.

Matthew,

That is what I like, don't clutter the course up with tee markers and just add 1 or 2 additional combo yardages on the score card.  However, I think I am in the minority on this...

I agree with you here. However, with regards to this example, how many golfers would be unable to play from 5500? Women, juniors, beginners, etc. Is this significant enough to warrant a more forward set? I would guess it depends most heavily on the carries to the fairway, since the front tee demographic is not necessarily worried about par or regulation.

I think anyone would be fine from that forward set ... on that particular course. It's flat, usually quite firm, and from those tees you wouldn't see a forced carry all day.

In general, I think your desert courses do call out for more tees because you do end up requiring forced carries ... TSN is  a happy exception in that way.

[Howard Riefs]

Reminded of Erin Hills, which is an outlier in its yardage (7,800+), tees in the ground (five) and combo tees (two). It works for them even though the scorecard is a bit of a mess.

http://www.erinhills.com/erin_hills_golf_score_card_2.aspx

[Jud_T]

The problem with combo tees is that it tends to mute variation in hole yardages, i.e. less short 3s and 4s.

[Garland Bayley]

At most two sets of tees.

GJ,

As usual, you and all the other morons, especially those not attending tomorrow night's moronic dinner and celebration, don't get it.

What about Women's tees ?  What about Senior and Junior Tees ?

Should clubs abandon the needs of those dues paying members ?

When they order a burger in the grille, don't they get the buns and garnish, or just the patty ?

Aren't they entitled to a quality product, not one ill suited to their needs.

You really need to attend the dinner so that we can elect you to the category of "Supreme" moron.


The yardage shouldn't matter.

YIKES, Shirley you can't be serioius.
Of course it matters.

The score card gives variations on the par of the hole based on handicap.

Then you'd need a score card about 12" by 12"

After all, that is what they have been doing at the major championships for years when they reduce par from 72 to 70 at certain courses.

That's great for 3 or 4 courses with play limited to the best golfers in the world, but, what about all of the other members and their guests.

I think you may qualify for invitations to the gathering of morons for years in advance

Patrick,

It is clearly you that "don't get it." You are so inside the box, you are walled in the box with walls that won't let you see out of it. This also is known as close mindedness.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Garland,

I can assure you that my experience in setting up a golf course to accomodate the broad spectrum of golfers is exponentially greater than yours.

You sit in an ivory tower, insulated and isolated from the real world.

Two (2) sets of tees at a local golf club would incite a riot.

You'd have the women golfers, the good, mediocre and poor women golfers, the Seniors, the Parents of the Juniors, along with the worst, mediocre and best golfers calling for your head, irrespective of how tiny it is.

Even Garden City Golf Club, which has just two (2) sets of tees for decades upon decades, established a third set for Seniors and Juniors.

You need to come down from that academic ivory tower into the real world in order to see what happens where the rubber meets the road, at an annual or semi-annual membership meeting.

[Garland Bayley]

Patrick,

It wasn't long ago that you were adamantly advocating fewer tees in a thread on this website, because you felt the mambie pambies of the world were being catered to too much. But, then I guess when you reach your advanced age, one should expect that.

[Garland Bayley]

Patrick,

Check out this thread for a couple of "universal" course proposals.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,50179.0.html

[Patrick_Mucci]

Patrick,

It wasn't long ago that you were adamantly advocating fewer tees in a thread on this website, because you felt the mambie pambies of the world were being catered to too much.


YES, I feel that 7 sets of tees is far too many.

But, 2 sets is too few.

Even you must understand the concept of a happy medium

But, then I guess when you reach your advanced age, one should expect that.

That's called "experience", "experience in the real world" which is something you lack.

[JMEvensky]

Two (2) sets of tees at a local golf club would incite a riot.

Not a riot--an exodus.