[Mark_Rowlinson]

Here's a list, in no particular order, to get you started. Please give reasons for your disagreements.


1. Old Course, St Andrews
2. Royal St George’s
3. Carnoustie
4. Royal Portrush Dunluce
5. Royal Co Down
6. Ballybunion
7. Honourable Company of Edinburgh Golfers
8. Royal West Norfolk
9. St Enodoc
10. Royal Cinque Ports
11. Royal Dornoch
12. Kingsbarns
13. Sunningdale Old
14. Swinley Forest
15. Woking
16. Royal Porthcawl
17. Ganton
18. Gleneagles King’s
19. Silloth-on-Solway
20. North Berwick West
21. Turnberry Ailsa
22. Royal Liverpool
23. Saunton East
24. Walton Heath Old
25. Woodhall Spa Hotchkin

[Mark Bourgeois]

Ditch Hotchkin, Saunton East, Swinley (plenty of Stockbroker Belt Colts already) and the course at #10. Add Royal North Devon, Cruden Bay, Askernish, and Rye.

[Michael Whitaker]

Hard to leave Huntercombe, Machrihanish and Dooks off this list, but I don't know what I would drop.

[Niall C]

Mark

That's quite a list iof top drawer courses but what makes you think they architecturally interesting as opposed to being just good golf courses ? I mean, can a course be good without being architecturally interesting, and conversely can a less than stellar course be architecturally interesting ?

In partially answering my own question let me nominate a couple of candidates in the latter category;

Killermont - home of Glasgow Golf Club and also the last 18 hole course designed by old Tom Morris. The course was lengthened in the 1920's by Braid and has been touched up more recently with Dave Thomas redoing the bunkers but its undoubtedly still the course that Old Tom designed. I suspect that its one of the very few courses of old Tom that still survive in some semblance of how they were originally laid out. Compared to plans of some of his earlier courses that I've seen, the course is laid out in fairly modern principles considering its age (1903) with no crossing holes and a routing that returns back to the clubhouse on several occasions. Fun to play with many holes that are now half par holes including the par 3 second that's effectively a dog-leg due to the canopy of a large tree impinging on the fairway just short of the green. Maybe an eye opener for those that think of Old Tom as being of a completely different era.

Duff House Royal - I'm conscious I'm becoming a bit of a broken record in my support of this course. Its a MacKenzie course from 1923. MacKenzie actually chose to design a new course over an existing one on this flat site rather than design a new course on the nearby cliff top land that became Royal Tarlair. Apart from being a terrific course (IMHO) its interesting in that due to the flat nature of the site, it isn't too difficult to discern what MacKenzie actually did in terms of earth moving. Everything has been done quite beautifully and to great effect. The only non-links course to get in a recent top 100 list of UK courses within a mile of the sea, as ranked by National Golfer magazine. If you're ever in the north of Scotland, its well worth the visit.

Niall

[Patrick Glynn]

A quality list - no doubt.

I would have to add Lahinch to the mix with the pedigree of Old Tom Morris & MacKenzie. I think its a masterclass in routing a course through significant dunes & balancing interest.

Probably knock out Turnberry.

Patrick

[Jim Sherma]

I would think that St Andrews New would need to be included.

I am under the impression that it is fairly true to Tom Morris' original course, it certainly was an important course upon opening. Lastly, I am sure that all who made a pilgrimage to see the Old would have also seen the New. Plus I just think it's a really good course.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I would leave off Turnberry, Liverpool, and Saunton.  They are good but not necessarily architecturally interesting.  I'd add Old Head.  It is unique and routing the course on the land it occupies was a difficult proposition.  The holes along the cliffs are at least interesting.  I'd add Narin and Portnoo.  It is is just a little different though the dunes.  I'd add Bull Bay in Wales.  Fowler's routing on this piece of property is as you said, "Mad."

[Jud_T]

Dump Turnberry and Carnoustie, add Prestwick and Portmarnock.  Find room for Westward Ho!?

[Niall C]

Dump Turnberry and Carnoustie, add Prestwick and Portmarnock.  Find room for Westward Ho!?

why ?

[Bill_McBride]

Add Beau Desert for its surviving set of awesome Fowler greens. 

Add Huntercombe for its role in history and its wonderful greens. 

Add Rye for the use of the dune ridge. 

[Wade Schueneman]

LAHINCH!  Arguably one of the two or three most interesting/fun/unique courses in GB&I.  I think that the routing is tremendous (especially with the old 11th green), and holes 3-6, 9, 11, and 13 are among the most interesting holes that I have ever seen.

[Joey Chase]

LAHINCH!  Arguably one of the two or three most interesting/fun/unique courses in GB&I.  I think that the routing is tremendous (especially with the old 11th green), and holes 3-6, 9, 11, and 13 are among the most interesting holes that I have ever seen.

Those were my thoughts exactly,Lahinch is on the short list of most interesting and architecturally interesting golf courses I have and ever will play.   Also where's Prestwick on this list? 

[Sean_A]

Here's a list, in no particular order, to get you started. Please give reasons for your disagreements.


1. Old Course, St Andrews
2. Royal St George’s
3. Carnoustie
4. Royal Portrush Dunluce
5. Royal Co Down
6. Ballybunion
7. Honourable Company of Edinburgh Golfers
8. Royal West Norfolk
9. St Enodoc
10. Royal Cinque Ports Doesn't add anything to the links already mentioned
11. Royal Dornoch
12. Kingsbarns
13. Sunningdale Old  Either Swinley of Sunny has to go - same concept
14. Swinley Forest
15. Woking
16. Royal Porthcawl  Portrush is a better Colt champ redo
17. Ganton
18. Gleneagles King’s
19. Silloth-on-Solway  Good course, but architecturally insignificant
20. North Berwick West
21. Turnberry Ailsa  I don't see how it adds anything to the table
22. Royal Liverpool  Unsure of
23. Saunton East  I don't see how it adds anything to the table
24. Walton Heath Old
25. Woodhall Spa Hotchkin

Mark

Its a good list, but I knock out the above and add

Lahinch - for reasons already mentioned
Huntercombe - great linking architecture that can be copied anywhere
New Zealand - outstanding bunkering on flat land
Rye - just play it
Kington -  great way to cope with a hilly site
Prestwick - champ course with some decent quirk remaining
Painswick - dumps the idea of yardage and par on its head

I think there has to be a way to get Pennard in there.  I suspect that one of either Woodhall or Ganton I would axe,  but I haven't seen Ganton to know.

I would probably look for a way to get Formby in there as a links thru the trees, but I don't know what should get the axe - I suspect it would be Kingsbarns.

Ciao

[Jud_T]

I actually really like the course, but what exactly is so architecturally significant about Carnoustie?

[Michael Whitaker]

I actually really like the course, but what exactly is so architecturally significant about Carnoustie?

I sort of have the same feeling about Carnoustie, Jud. I like it, but I'm not sure I would want someone studying it for design ideas!

[Clyde Johnson]

Have I missed something here...or has no one mentioned "The Sacred Nine"?

[Tom_Doak]

Have I missed something here...or has no one mentioned "The Sacred Nine"?

Clyde:

Good catch.

I have not commented here because I think there are a lot more than 25 interesting courses in Britain & Ireland, and I'm not sure I understand the phrase "architecturally interesting" since some of them are very natural.  But, Royal Worlington & Newmarket has to be on the short list of architectural wonders.

[Mike_Clayton]

Mark

How about Royal Ashdown Forest? To build a course without bunkers and have it fascinating to play is surely a feat worthy of study.

[David_Elvins]

9. St Enodoc

Last year I played St Enedoc and and Burnham and Berrow on back to back days.  I thought, from an architectural interest point of view, B&B blew St Enodoc out of the water. 

B&B seemed very strategic with a heap of angles in play, had a fantastic combination of holes in the dunes and holes on the flat land, and had a great set of interesting par 3s. 

St Enodoc was an interesting course but did not seem to have anywhere near the architectural interest of B&B - very few strategic angles, more rudimentary par 3s and poor use of the non-dunes land.  3-6 was a great stretch of holes with some really interesting architecture, but the rest of the course was a significant number of steps below. 

I am also surprised Sunningdale New has not recieved a mention.  Whilst you can't have every course n Surrey on the list, I thought the routing and green sites at Sunningdale New were close to faultless.

[Sean_A]

Folks are right, there are more than 25 distinctive courses which are worth seeing from an architectural PoV. 

David

I don't think B&B would make my list.  Its an out n' back routing - nothing special there.  What is interesting are the Colt add ons to some old fashioned design, but again, I think Portrush is a better example of this sort of thing. I spose, we have to throw Muirfield in that category as well. 

I might consider Addington for the list - its an interesting use of hilly land with an unusual number of par 3s to help cope. 

Ciao

[Mark Pearce]

Sean,

I also don't think Silloth is one of the 25 most architecturally interesting courses in the UK.  However, to describe Willie Park's best links course (and one of his earliest courses) as insignificant, given the importance of his subsequent work inland seems rather harsh!

[David_Elvins]

David

I don't think B&B would make my list.  Its an out n' back routing - nothing special there.  What is interesting are the Colt add ons to some old fashioned design, but again, I think Portrush is a better example of this sort of thing. I spose, we have to throw Muirfield in that category as well. 

No doubt you are right, Sean, you have seen a lot more courses in the UK than I have.  I was just impressed with how much architectural interest there was at B&B compared to the other courses I played in England last year.  It made me think more about architecture and provided more food for thought than St Enodoc, Deal, Sunningdale Old, Berkshire(s), and Swinley, a few of which are mentioned in the OP.

[Niall C]

I actually really like the course, but what exactly is so architecturally significant about Carnoustie?

Jud

I need to check my facts but possibly the best example of a links design from the most prolific gca in Britain. Also widely considered as being the most challenging championship course in the UK. Some might not consider that is a title worth having but surely worth considering what makes it what it is ?

What's so architecturally interesting about Prestwick and Portmarnock ?

Niall

[Niall C]

Tom D

Do you think the terms architecturally interesting and natural are necessarily mutually exclusive ?

Niall

[Niall C]

Mark/Sean

Re Silloth - writing with the usual caveat of being a huge fan of Silloth, but do you not think that there's a difference between being architecturally interesting and being architecturally significant ? I think its fascinating how Silloth has developed and evolved as a natural links. The way the routing moves through the dunes, playing over, off and through is fantastic. Much more stimulating than say a constant diet of playing through dunes a la Balmedie International. Having said that, I acknowledge that very many courses have evolved in a similar fashion which perhaps makes it insignificant but interesting all the same.

Niall

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