Rivermont Country Club (Lee/Riley/Cupit) - A Photo Tour!!! - Hole 18 Posted

[Mark Saltzman]

After a lengthy transition from the 9th green to the clubhouse, the back-nine starts with one of my favorite holes on the course.  The 10th hole is is a 500 yard double dogleg (almost triple dogleg) par-5, that first moves right, then left, and then right again at the green.  While the tee shot has a constrained feeling with trees on both sides, there is more room than there appears and golfers hoping to reach the green in two shots must challenge a single bunker on the inside of the dogleg.




The second for most will be a lay-up but it is one that grabs your attention.  The golfer must play near a lone left-side fairway bunker or he will face a difficult wedge shot approach over a bunker from the right.






The 11th is a very tempting short par-4 that plays to just over 270 yards from the members tees.  At that yardage (remember, only 255 or so to the front edge) and without the overt water hazards that front so many short par-4s, many golfers will have a go at this green, probably finding one of the short bunkers and walking off with 5.




A lay-up away from the stream/bunker on the right leaves an approach that demands precision as the green lay at an angle from here.




The 11th green as seen from the 12th tee, shows the subtle but present internal contouring.  For reference, the old 11th green (I believe) was somewhere amongst the bunkering shown below.




Another really good par-5 at the 12th.  The day I played it, the members tees were up one set, making this a very reachable par-5, but the normal tee shot is back and left of the location pictured and from there it is clear that the reverse-cambre will wreak havoc on those unable to draw their tee shot.




The second shot as seen from around the 200-yard marker.  The Big Bertha bunker on the left reminds me of the similarly named bunker short of the 8th green at The Honors in Tennessee, and the golfer will do everything in his power to avoid it (which includes pushing his second shot well to the right and onto the 10th fairway).




Pictures of this green are almost a waste of time.  The back portion of the green is as severely tilted as anything I've ever seen.  I had a 10 foot downhill putt from above the hole, which after the first time hitting it 15 feet by the hole, I then tried putting it backwards and even then it went a couple feet beyond the hole.  Equal parts fun and frustrating!  Next time I won't be above the hole.

[Thomas Dai]

Mark,

This post with the splendid photos just get's better and better. Keep them coming.

All the best.

[Mark Saltzman]

Amazing to see the similarity between the 5th hole at Atlanta CC and the 5th hole at Rivermont CC.  I know Mike Riley was involved in redesigning the green complexes at ACC, but don't know if he changed anything else.  The 5th at ACC was my favorite hole on the course, so maybe he used it as inspiration for Rivermont? The 5th is a mid-length par-4 with bunkering guarding the ideal line of the inside of the dogleg and a bunker through the fairway on the left.




Playing away from the carry bunkers on the right leaves a very difficult approach to an angled green with a tree rifw.

[Wade Schueneman]

Mark,

What strikes me about holes 6-13 at Rivermont is the quality of the green complexes.  I think they are all tremendous.  I also think there is great variety.  What are your thoughts on that collection of greens?

And yes, when they are running at top speeds the front of 7 and several putts/chips on 9 and 12 are truly frightening.

[Mac Plumart]

Just a quick FYI, it is Mike Riley.

[Mark Saltzman]

Just a quick FYI, it is Mike Riley.

Oops. Thanks, Mac!

Don't know why I said Chris. I'll change it.

[Ronald Montesano]

Ask Mike Cupit why you said it...

[Mac Plumart]

12 is one of the most interesting holes IMO.  As Mark has said, the green is very challenging...but due to the interest of the hole tee to green a lot of people overlook/don't remember the green's challenges.  

An example of the tee to green interest, is the tee shot.  You can see from the picture that the fairway tilts severely left to right.  What you don't see is that over the ridge on the right side of the fairway is a hollow that has a small creek running at its bottom.  If you go over that ridge, I'd say you've got a 25% of being wet, 25% chance of being fine, and 50% chance of an awkward lie and a punchout/lay up type of shot.

 However, here is the kicker.  If you can't reach this perched green in two, why are you hitting driver on this hole?  I am the only one I've ever seen hit anything less than driver on this hole, but I constantly see people looking for balls over that ridge and or in the trees left. And I can't recall but a handful of players getting to that green in two.

What is cool is that I hit 3 hybrid off that tee up the left side of the fairway.  You can see a ridge in the fairway at that point. With the firm and fast turf and with that slope, that ball will roll out to that bunker on the right side of the fairway...which is where most good drives end up.  IMO this reduces risk and doesn't cost you very much in terms of par probability.

Of course, this is how i've figured I can best play this hole for my game.  Others may want to experiment with other methods.  And that is what is fun at Rivermont, options and choices.  Mark B., calls the types of decisions and options "equifinality.". I agree and find this type of golf to be the most fun.  

[Mark Saltzman]

The 13th is a short par-4.  The golfer is asked to challenge the bunker guarding the high side of the fairway.  From there the golfer has the best view of the green and his approach will be played from the only flat area on the fairway.




Probably the largest false-front I have ever seen.  A ridge cuts across the green half-way back and anything landing short of this ridge will funnel back off of the green.




Depending on pin position, this hole may be a breather.  But, with a green that has small ledges on the left and back portions of the green, bogey is a real possibility.






The 400 yard 15th is a very cool and very demanding golf hole.  An intimidating view from the tee, as the drive is blind played over a top-shot bunker that is 150 yards to carry.




Once in the fairway the golfer is asked to play a running shot from the right, using the ground's contours to bring the ball onto the putting surface.




With MacRaynor inspired straight lines and sharp drop-offs, missing left of the greensite is a terrible mistake.   




The extreme back-left portion of the green is mowed all the way up and into the ridge around the green.  Only at Tillinghast's Quaker Ridge have I seen this.  The green generally slopes from right-to-left, but there is counterslope on the left portion of the green to protect shots coming from the right from running all the way though the green.

[Ronald Montesano]

This course improves on an excellent start with each successive trilogy.

[Mac Plumart]

Just played today.

On 12, all three of my playing partners hit driver.  2 down the hill/gully right, 1 in the fairway.  I hit 3 hybrid off the tee.  I made par...no one else did.  How often do people NOT hit driver off the tee on a par 5?  Heck...make that a par 4 as well?

On that point, on the "drivable" par 4 11th...all playing partners hit driver.  One just missed the green right.  Great drive!  He made birdie.  The others put their drives in the rough on the left and made bogeys/doubles.  I hit 5 iron, wedge, putt, putt...par.

These type of instances have helped cement my thinking that most players will never get strategic architecture as they never think before they hit...therefore, strategy is lost on them.  Am I off base?

[Mark Saltzman]

The 16th hole is one of the very best on the golf course and uses the lay of the land and strategic bunkering to maximum effect.






Golfers will do well to avoid a single well-placed bunker on the left to leave an approach to a green protected by a steep fall-off left and bunkering to the right.




Note the right-to-left tilt of the land, as seen from behind the 16th green:




A dangerous drop-shot par-3 with a massive green.






The hole played 195 yards on the  day I played, and I was warned that long is the only terrible miss!






The 18th tee shot is one of the least dramatic on the golf course, where a tee shot played toward the fairway bunkers will leave a clear look at an open green front.  A slope short-right of the green can be used to funnel balls onto the green, but hit its outside and the ball will kick well away to the right of the green.

[Jason Walker]

Grew up in the metro Atlanta area (80's and 90's) not far from Rivermont.  Miss the tall pines for sure.  Have to say, having played the 'old' Rivermont several times way back when, great to see it in these pics--looks great and lots of fun! (and nothing how I remember it!)

[Kevin Lynch]

Mark,

What strikes me about holes 6-13 at Rivermont is the quality of the green complexes.  I think they are all tremendous.  I also think there is great variety.  What are your thoughts on that collection of greens?

And yes, when they are running at top speeds the front of 7 and several putts/chips on 9 and 12 are truly frightening.

No doubt the green complexes are striking at Rivermont.  Again, I attribute that to the passionate hands-on approach by Chris & Mike.  Listening to both of them describe what they were thinking on various greens was a privilege.  None of these were greens were built on paper - you could sense the thought put into each slope / counterslope.  Even on the most benign-looking greens, there was so much going on (17 is on that sticks out to me).
Put 4 different golfers 20 yards short of these greens and you'll probably hear four different strategies on how to get close.

[Thomas Dai]

Mark,

Well done. Super descriptions and really splendid photos.

All the best.

[Bruce Wellmon]

The 16th hole

16 was my favorite hole on the course. Such a great look to it.

[Chris Cupit]

Sorry I was so busy and couldn't comment earlier. But, I'm back 

Hole seven is a tough hole and plays slightly uphill at 570 from the tips and 530 or so from the "regular" men's tees.  A creek runs all down the left of the hole and also crosses the fairway at around the 400 yard mark on a bias.  If you miss the fairway or miss the drive it is tough to carry this crossing hazard.  The drive is tight--maybe the tightest on the course but we have gone and essentlially removed about ten feet of trees along the right side with a little more cutting to go.

The course, while routed among houses, really has very little OB in play.  Creeks are the primary hazard (holes 1-14 all have a creek or pond in play at least a little). 

#7 green is shaped like a "milk jug" when viewed from overhead and after the first few holes the green looks perfectly flat--until you putt right off the front of it!

Here is #7 from right at the creek crossing:
 

[Chris Cupit]

#8 is an absolute ball buster though 98% of all rounds are not played from the tips.  The regualr tees and the "player's tees" both use the old forward tee of about 410 yards.

A few years ago two new back tees were put in--we have hosted about 8 Match Play Championships for our state golf association (the last eight actually) as well as about twenty USGA qualifiers and we wanted this hole to play as a long iron or wood apporach for better players--like it does for others.  The greenside front bunker was removed encouraging a running shot and the horseshoe shaped green (a sideways horseshoe) may be my favorite on the course.

From the tips the back tee used almostly exclusively in tournament play is 460 yards.  The carry in actual yards from the very back of this tee is 219 yards which plays 232 (according to my slope/distance meter).  From this tee many competitors actually hit three woods as they can draw the ball easier though a perfectly straight shot is fine as long as it is not pushed right of the fairway bunker.

hybrids to even 6 irons are played from this tee.  An aggresive line just inside the bunker or drawing will land either on a downslope gathering more distance or in a fairway that opens up to nearly forty yards accross.  At it narrowest--between the right edge of the bunker and the rough/hazard on the right a player has 26 yards.  Of course a player can play short of the bunker to a fatter part of the fairway (35 yards or so).  It is only REALLY tight if you can't carry the bunker.

From the VERY BACK TEES, the hole is 500 yards and the carry from the back of the tee to the top of the bunker is 242 yards playing 260.  The carry over the bunker is not nearly as far as most people think though it is a very intimidating shot.  It is simply one of those times in a round where a player just has to suck it up and hit a golf shot!!  (Or make a big number).  Of course, a player can play conservatively and almost always make a five.

Some pics:

Early clearing:
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The approach:


Standing just past the fairway bunker--lots of room to play "into" the left hill and the fairway certainly opens up:

[Chris Cupit]

I'll try and find close up pics of #8--it really is a great green

#9 is our most controversial green.  It is certainly a severe green.  The greens are designed to roll no faster than 10 but of course, all the players want speed   Anyway, even at 11 to 11.5 it is possible to two putt to every hole location from anywhere on the green.  Now, I will grant you it may be damn near impossible and you may very well putt off the green and even into a bunker, but the approach shot is designed for no more than a 9-iron and I think there can be a severe penalty for being out of position on a green!!

Here are a bunch of pictures:

Architect Michael Riley (he really does know which end of the rake to use--I think)


Construction--notice the slope and the bunker in front (my seniors hate me):


There is a hole location over that left hump!!!


This is a view the golfer really doesn't see unless he has hit it WAY up on the left hillside but it shows the green well:


Where did it go?
 

Showing the left drive zone bunkers:  Again from the tips the hole is 380 and plays downhill off the tee and then back up.  The hole was designed to play as a fairway wood or hybrid which leaves one short of those fairway bunkers but leaves a 7, 8 or 9 iron shot.  Or challenging the bunkers with a three wood or driver would leave less than 120 yards.

[Mac Plumart]

This is a view the golfer really doesn't see

Uh, yeah...Chris...I've been there a few times.  You know, for the views.   

[Mac Plumart]

nope

[jeffwarne]

Will the grass still be dormant in mid April??

I'd say there's a very good chance of partial dormancy then, depends on temps at night.

[Wade Schueneman]

I'll try and find close up pics of #8--it really is a great green

#9 is our most controversial green.  It is certainly a severe green.  The greens are designed to roll no faster than 10 but of course, all the players want speed   Anyway, even at 11 to 11.5 it is possible to two putt to every hole location from anywhere on the green.  Now, I will grant you it may be damn near impossible and you may very well putt off the green and even into a bunker, but the approach shot is designed for no more than a 9-iron and I think there can be a severe penalty for being out of position on a green!!

I think that Chris is being modest.  The number of truly great greens at RIvermont is astounding.  2, 4, 6, 8, 9, 11, 12 are amazing (and almost all of the others are VERY interesting and fun).  All in all probably my favorite set of greens.

I think that at 10.5-11 the greens seem to be quite playable (but they sure make you think long and hard before hitting your approaches at those speeds).  For example, if the pin is on the back left of the 8th green at those speeds, even a small miss left is dead.  

[Wade Schueneman]

Will the grass still be dormant in mid April??

I'd say there's a very good chance of partial dormancy then, depends on temps at night.

Agreed.  It takes a while for the ground to heat up enough to make the bermuda happy.

[Mark Saltzman]

Wade, I think 5 is one of the best greens on the course.