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Tim_Weiman

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Whitemarsh Valley
« on: February 20, 2013, 12:39:46 AM »
Can anyone tell me who is the consulting architect for Whitemarsh Valley Country Club? Would also appreciate hearing what work was done there in recent yeas..

Thanks.
Tim Weiman

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Whitemarsh Valley
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2013, 12:42:14 AM »
Ed Shearon, a local architect and member of WV, did the work.
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Steve_ Shaffer

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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Sean Remington (SBR)

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Re: Whitemarsh Valley
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2013, 09:29:37 AM »
  I'm not so sure that Ed is the consulting anymore. I believe McDonald Design is the consulting now.  The source for recent work is the Supt's Blog.  Tony Gustaitis CGCS does a great job!  here is a link:

http://wvccgreens.blogspot.com/

Joe Bausch

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@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Tim_Weiman

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Re: Whitemarsh Valley
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2013, 05:47:53 PM »
Thanks for the response. I fondly remember Whitemarsh though I haven't seen it for about thirty years. Maybe that says something good about the place.
Tim Weiman

Bill Shotzbarger

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Re: Whitemarsh Valley
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2013, 08:28:09 PM »
Best men's grille in Philly IMO...it's inside its own building! (the old clubhouse)

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Whitemarsh Valley
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2015, 10:37:09 AM »
Joe Logan updates his video...again:


http://myphillygolf.com/detail.asp?id=14346&pid=20
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Tim_Weiman

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Re: Whitemarsh Valley
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2015, 12:14:05 PM »
Steve,


Thanks for sharing this update. I really need to see WV during my next visit to the Philly area.
Tim Weiman

Dave Givnish

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Re: Whitemarsh Valley
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2015, 11:45:07 PM »
Bill


The men's locker room is on the site of the old stables and/or barn from when George Thomas' family owned the property. The old clubhouse was a neat old building that unfortunately got knocked down around 1970.




mike_malone

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Re: Whitemarsh Valley
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2015, 02:44:16 PM »
The course is so special that we keep talking about the men's grill.
AKA Mayday

Anthony_Nysse

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Re: Whitemarsh Valley
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2015, 03:59:08 PM »
Can anyone tell me who is the consulting architect for Whitemarsh Valley Country Club? Would also appreciate hearing what work was done there in recent yeas..

Thanks.

Andrew Green deserves all the credit. Did some really cool stuff at Card Sound GC this summer, also. He's gaining popularity, fast.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2015, 06:08:51 AM by Anthony_Nysse »
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

mike_malone

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Re: Whitemarsh Valley
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2015, 10:54:19 PM »
They did some fine tree work .
AKA Mayday

MCirba

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Re: Whitemarsh Valley
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2015, 05:26:22 PM »
we played there today.  Really some significant improvements have been made to the golf course. I'll try to get some photos by tomorrow.
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Tim_Weiman

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Re: Whitemarsh Valley
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2015, 10:09:58 PM »
we played there today.  Really some significant improvements have been made to the golf course. I'll try to get some photos by tomorrow.


Thanks, Mike.
Tim Weiman

Matt Frey, PGA

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Re: Whitemarsh Valley
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2015, 09:15:57 AM »
This was the first time I've played Whitemarsh Valley and the first George Thomas layout I've visited as well. I was very impressed. The greens and green complexes were outstanding. I can't think of one I didn't like. No. 7's green complex is terrific, along with many others. I also like the variety of green shapes.


It's a pretty special golf course.

Ed Brzezowski

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Re: Whitemarsh Valley
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2015, 09:26:12 AM »
It really is a Philly gem, worked a scoreboard there in 1967 at the IVB Classic. Just a great layout that has experienced some tender loving care the past few years. I believe alot of the work was due to the endless flooding. I just wonder how the course will change when that giant wall by the 13th tee comes tumbling down?
 
Great variety of holes and good use of the rolling grounds. And yeah the mens locker room is cool too.
We have a pool and a pond, the pond would be good for you.

Joe Bausch

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Re: Whitemarsh Valley
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2015, 09:30:33 AM »
I just wonder how the course will change when that giant wall by the 13th tee comes tumbling down?



Have you seen the size of the bolts in that wall?!  Don't think it is easily coming down. . . .
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

MCirba

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Re: Whitemarsh Valley
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2015, 11:11:02 AM »
I'm hoping perhaps Joe or Matt got a better picture of this map then I did (sorry for the flash) but it was located in a book in the lounge that describes the recent course renovation by Macdonald & Sons.

Unfortunately, I don't know the date or author of this map but it's clear that it's pretty early on.   

"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Ed Brzezowski

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Re: Whitemarsh Valley
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2015, 11:58:27 AM »
I just wonder how the course will change when that giant wall by the 13th tee comes tumbling down?



Have you seen the size of the bolts in that wall?!  Don't think it is easily coming down. . . .

 
Well i hope so.
We have a pool and a pond, the pond would be good for you.

Matt Frey, PGA

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Re: Whitemarsh Valley
« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2015, 01:23:07 PM »
Does anyone on GCA have the old picture of No. 12 they can share? Mike mentioned to me that it was in Geoff Shackelford's "Golden Age" book, which I do not own, and I cannot find it digitally online...yet.


Any help would be much appreciated! From what Mike described, it sounded very dramatic!

Matt Frey, PGA

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Re: Whitemarsh Valley
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2015, 02:51:14 PM »
Mike was kind enough to send me a photo of page 91 from the book last night, so I cropped it out and included the caption below. Also, below the photo from the book, I included a picture of No. 12 as it looks today.



Twelfth at Whitemarsh Valley Country Club, Chestnut Hill, Pennsylvania, Par-3, 175 Yards

George Thomas's first design was at Whitemarsh Valley. The land once belonged to the Thomas family who sold it to the new club at a fair price under the condition that the young Thomas would design the course. The twelfth is a particularly dramatic par-3, with [a] twenty-five-foot drop-off on the left.

"Wise is the man who knows how to play each hole as he should play, and skillful the golfer who can place his shots after he knows where they should go. Such a player is exceedingly hard to defeat on a course with proper strategy



MCirba

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Re: Whitemarsh Valley
« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2015, 09:55:38 AM »
Nice, Matt.

Here's a few more pics from the day;

The approach to #2



The par three 9th with 10 and 11 in the background



From the high point behind the 11th green, looking back down the hole and across the course



A pic of the aforementioned 12th from the "upper tee"



The short par 5 17th that traverses a creek bed



The long par 4 18th from the tee



Tough to avoid all the fairway bunkers on 18

"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Sven Nilsen

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Re: Whitemarsh Valley
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2015, 10:43:18 AM »
Looking at the old photo of 12, I don't see the bunker edging that appears in the modern day images.


Does anyone know when this look was adopted, and if it is somehow a reflection of the types of bunkers that would be seen later on Thomas courses in California?


Sven
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

MCirba

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Re: Whitemarsh Valley
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2015, 11:10:54 AM »
Sven,

Although Whitemarsh Valley still plays up their George Thomas lineage, not much of what is there today bears his imprint, with the exception of the routing.   In the first decades after the course opened, and again in the past decade a number of internal changes and outside architects were brought in such that tracing the internals of each hole almost requires historical CSI.

Both Ross and Flynn seem to have large impacts on the bunkering schemes, but in the past two years the club has embarked on a program to "make" the course "look" like a George Thomas creation by having Andrew Green of Macdonald & Company re-do every bunker in the frilly Thomas/Bell style and more importantly, take out all the evergreen trees (while maddeningly planting small deciduous trees in a number of areas) and expand green surfaces and fairway widths.

While the new, deeper, bright-white bunkers are either jarring or appealing depending on ones' tastes, they certainly appear starker on the landscape and therefore probably have a larger impact on strategy and play than the tired look of their predecessors.   The irony of all this is that the earliest maps of the course (not sure if they were drawn by Thomas) show very little in the way of sand bunkers.

The green complexes throughout are varied and creative, especially with the expansion.   The par threes are quite stellar, each of them noteworthy and each par five asks the player to make choices, almost always a good thing.

In the end, and no matter how many architects are brought in, Whitemarsh Valley is still limited by two congenital factors; the overall tight acreage of the property and the fact that it is indeed, a valley, with the valley floor having both drainage and flooding problems throughout the course history.   Some of the recent changes have tried to mitigate those issues through creation of retention ponds and the building up of golf course features, presumably to stay above floodwaters from the creeks which affect play on numerous holes.

Still and all, there are many, many fine golf holes at WM, and in a tough neighborhood at least the revitalized course now has a cohesive theme and playability.
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/