Best holes by Architect

[Bill McKinley]

With the Tour at the Riv this week and the iconic 10th hole on display it got me thinking of a topic.  What are the best holes, one par 3, one par 4, one par 5, by GCA.  Feel free to add more architects but I'll get it started with a couple that I know pretty well

Capt. George C. Thomas
Par 3: #11 LACC North
Par 4: #10 Riviera
Par 5: #8 LACC North

Donald Ross
Par 3: #17 Seminole
Par 4: #5 Pinehurst #2
Par 5: #13 Oak Hill East

Seth Raynor
Par 3: #11 Camargo
Par 4: #4 Fishers Island
Par 5: #2 Fox Chapel

[Alex Miller]

I feel confident with the 3 and 5, but there are so many par 4s to choose from...


Dr. Alister Mackenzie
Par 3: #16  Cypress Point
Par 4: #6 Royal Melbourne West
Par 5: #13 Augusta National



Bill,

I like your Capt. Thomas choices. I would pick the same.

[Tim_Weiman]

Alex,

Why do you think #16 at Cypress Point is Mackenzie's best par 3?

[Alex Miller]

Alex,

Why do you think #16 at Cypress Point is Mackenzie's best par 3?

It's heroic and a great use of natural landforms. Part of me realizes that this isn't what makes a best par 3, but when you have a really really good hole you just want to play more of it.  

16 is as much par 3 as Mackenzie offers and it's great. It's a spiritual spot, but your still focused on golf because the task at hand is so demanding. And the green, while not nearly as wild as many of his others, lays naturally and might have been considered overkill if like one of his bolder greens. It's flatness (which it's not by the way) actually enhances the way the hole plays because it rewards shots that reach the green with a legitimate chance at 2, but also legitimizes the layup as a means of making par.

[Joe Leenheer]

With the Tour at the Riv this week and the iconic 10th hole on display it got me thinking of a topic.  What are the best holes, one par 3, one par 4, one par 5, by GCA.  Feel free to add more architects but I'll get it started with a couple that I know pretty well

Capt. George C. Thomas
Par 3: #11 LACC North
Par 4: #10 Riviera
Par 5: #8 LACC North

Donald Ross
Par 3: #17 Seminole
Par 4: #5 Pinehurst #2

Par 4: Brookside #6

Par 5: #13 Oak Hill East

Seth Raynor
Par 3: #11 Camargo
Par 4: #4 Fishers Island
Par 5: #2 Fox Chapel

[Tim_Weiman]

Alex,

Thanks for your comments on CP #16. I guess I tend to disagree for perhaps a crazy reason. The hole is so special that I feel like it should be nominated for "most spiritual" hole rather than just Mackenzie's best par 3.

I'd probably give the latter to #5 at RMW which I think is to Mackenzie par3s what Wing Foot West #10 is to Tillinghast par 3s.

Forgive me if I have just proven my limited golf architecture writing skills!

[Wyatt Halliday]

The 6th at Pinehurst No.2 is pretty freaking good. In fact, it's probably my favorite par three ever...and I abhor par threes.

[Connor Dougherty]

I'd probably give the latter to #5 at RMW which I think is to Mackenzie par3s what Wing Foot West #10 is to Tillinghast par 3s.

I think the thing about the 16th at Cypress is it's a very bland choice you make: Go for the green or lay up. Because of the location, I think it's probably MacKenzie's best one-shotter, but for just sheer variety, it's hard to beat that 5th hole. 4-6 as a three hole stretch is as good as any other stretch in the world.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

I'm going to suggest some by God:

Par 3, 11th Old Course
Par 4, 13th Old Course
Par 5, 14th Old Course

Someone with greater knowledge of St Andrews history will, no doubt, point out that none of these holes remains in the form in which his Holiness built them, but I haven't seen the Hawtree modifications and I'm ignorant of what others may have done to the holes in their time.
 
Tim, I have fond memories of the 10th at Winged Foot West. I had played there as a member's guest and after we'd finished we had a few beers and as the sun went down we stood on the 10th tee knocking ball after ball at that green. When we had finished it was too dark to collect them! I imagine the green staff had a field day next morning!

[Tim_Weiman]

Mark,

My fondest memory of WFW was time spent on the green with Neil Regan and Tommy Naccarato. Neil showed us the putt that breaks uphill. Tommy and I were just amazed. Neil said "don't worry,  ninety percent of the members still can't figure it out".

[Wade Schueneman]

It seems very hard to choose Alister's best par 4. 

CP 9 or 17, Crystal 5-7, Pasa 11 or 16, Lahinch 6, 9 or 13, RMW 3 or 6 or 10 etc.

What about the modern architects.  Doak, C&C etc.

[Tom_Doak]

If we've had a really good career, we should have made it very difficult to choose -- although, I suppose that would be true if we'd had a really mediocre career, too. 

My choices for MacKenzie would include the 8th at Crystal Downs, but I don't know what I'd pick for his best par-4.  Lots and lots of good options there, we haven't even scratched the surface yet.  How about the 10th at Cavendish?

[Adam Clayman]

For the Fours; The Doctor, I'll take the 9th at Cypress, and for The Doak, 7th in Holyoke.

Wyatt picks a good one at Pinehurst. #6

[V. Kmetz]

Tillinghast

par 3:  WFE #13
par 4:  Fenway #15
par 5:  Bethpage Black #4 (or if Burbeck's contribution disqualifies...) Quaker Ridge #14

Raynor:

par 3:  Fisher's Island #5
par 4:  Yale #12
par 5:  CC of Fairfield #8

cheers

vk

[Mark Saltzman]

C&C...

Par 3: 13 at Sand Hills
Par 4: 7 at Sand Hills (with very honorable mentions to 5 and 16 at Friar's Head)
Par 5: 14 at Friar's Head (om to 7 at Friar's Head, 1 and 14 and 16 at Sand Hills, 17 at Dormie)

[Tom_Doak]

C&C...

Par 3: 13 at Sand Hills
Par 4: 7 at Sand Hills (with very honorable mentions to 5 and 16 at Friar's Head)
Par 5: 14 at Friar's Head (om to 7 at Friar's Head, 1 and 14 and 16 at Sand Hills, 17 at Dormie)

I don't think I agree with any of those.  Maybe I would choose one of the par-5's.

[Mark Saltzman]

C&C...

Par 3: 13 at Sand Hills
Par 4: 7 at Sand Hills (with very honorable mentions to 5 and 16 at Friar's Head)
Par 5: 14 at Friar's Head (om to 7 at Friar's Head, 1 and 14 and 16 at Sand Hills, 17 at Dormie)

I don't think I agree with any of those.  Maybe I would choose one of the par-5's.

... and your picks would be...

ps I'm working on the Tom Doak list now!

[Mark Saltzman]

Tom Doak:

Par 3: 17 at Rock Creek (honorable mentions to 3 at Ballyneal, 5 at Streamsong, 12 at Sebonack)

Par 4: I think the rule is that I have to pick 7 at Ballyneal so I'll go with that (honorable mentions to 12 at Ballyneal, 7 and 11 at Rock Creek, 1 at Streamsong, 2 at Sebonack

Par 5: 10 at Rock Creek (honorable mentions to 8 at Ballyneal, 4 at Tumble Creek, 17 at Streamsong)

[Tom_Doak]

Tom Doak:

Par 3: 17 at Rock Creek (honorable mentions to 3 at Ballyneal, 5 at Streamsong, 12 at Sebonack)

Par 4: I think the rule is that I have to pick 7 at Ballyneal so I'll go with that (honorable mentions to 12 at Ballyneal, 7 and 11 at Rock Creek, 1 at Streamsong, 2 at Sebonack

Par 5: 10 at Rock Creek (honorable mentions to 8 at Ballyneal, 4 at Tumble Creek, 17 at Streamsong)

Well, nice to see Rock Creek get some love, but you haven't been to Barnbougle.

[Mark Saltzman]

If all goes according to plan, I'll play Pacific Dunes and Old Mac in November and Barnbougle next February.  I'll update the list then! 

[Tom_Doak]

Then maybe you'll be able to do an entire eclectic.  I did those for a few different architects in The Confidential Guide.  Could probably fill out a pretty good one for myself now, and Coore & Crenshaw, too.

[Sam Morrow]

Amongst Coore and Crenshaw's best par 3's is the 8th at Austin Golf Club, it's a short shot to a tiny little green.

[Mark Saltzman]

Amongst Coore and Crenshaw's best par 3's is the 8th at Austin Golf Club, it's a short shot to a tiny little green.

How similar does it look to this...

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,46540.msg1029680.html#msg1029680

[Sam Morrow]

I didn't see anything quite like it.

[Wyatt Halliday]

To limit my bias, I won't double up on courses.

Coore / Crenshaw

Par 3 - 17 Bandon Trails
Par 4 - 15 Sand Hills (maybe my favorite hole they've done)
Par 5 - 14 Friars Head

Renaissance

Par 3 - 3 Ballyneal
Par 4 - 7 Pacific Dunes
Par 5 - 17 Streamsong Blue