Streamsong knocks it out of the Ballpark!

[Jud_T]

I hear the fish tacos at Showgirls in Plant City are good value...

[Peter Pallotta]

Jim - I know you want to keep it light hearted, and I'm not angry or anything, but all kidding and rationalizations aside: 12 dollars is way too much for a hot dog, and the owners should be embarrassed. I bet there's a lot of golfers who'll find themelves not too far away (maybe with their families after driving down to Florida for a vacation) and who'll really look forward to treating themselves to 36 holes of wonderful golf, even if the price/green fee is a little out of their budget (and more expensive than many other Florida publics).  And they'll go, and they'll play, and they'll be very happy they did -- but one of the lingering memories will be that they paid 20 dollars for a hot dog and coke and 30 dollars for a hat, and they'll leave thinking :"Ah, this isn't a place that wants me as a return customer; they're targetting a much higher class of folks".  

Peter

[Bryan Izatt]

Peter,

Well said.  From my experience there, I felt comfortable when I was on the course and felt uncomfortable when I was off the course.  As a luxury resort at $300 a night for a room and $12 hot dogs I'm surely not part of their target demographics.  Too bad because the golf is really good.  I suspect that if they are financially successful they will evolve to even more luxurious pricing for the golf, as Bandon and Pebble have done, at which point I will not be a customer anymore.  Enjoy it now while the golf is (relatively) reasonably priced. And avoid buying a hot dog while there.      

[PCCraig]

The draft beers were only $5. Have two and skip the hot dog.

Amen Rick.

[Peter Pallotta]

Bryan - thanks: you've been there, which makes your experience/thoughts a lot more valuable than mine. I know it's 'the way of the world', i.e. go high end for the disposable income types'; but it still makes me a little sad (maybe even a little envious, but I hope not). And it reminds me of Don's natural golf thread, where I shared my worry that in the years to come, the most lovely and natural and rough and tumble courses will prove to be the most expensive ones, offering the high end disposal income types the one thing they can't get almost anywhere else: peace and simplicity.  

Peter

[Carl Nichols]

What is the Streamdog made of?

Just out of curiosity and for comparison purposes, how much is an Olympic Club burger dog?  I've had them many times but have never asked my host how much I'm costing him as I go back for seconds and thirds.   

[Jim_Kennedy]

PP,

Your point has also been made by others on this thread and is well taken. My  'keeping it light' was so the thread wouldn't devolve into a haves vs. have less debacle.

I equate the price of a round at Streamsong as similar to that of buying a new 1 wood, but, the former will most likely provide a lifelong memory, the latter will most likely be forgotten within a few seasons.

When adjustable drivers made their debut one company was going to charge 20 bucks extra for the wrench. Imagine that, after you just paid  4 hundred to buy it! That policy ended almost as soon as it began, before it left a sour taste in anyone's mouth, and the wrench was thrown in free.

Far be it from me to suggest that Streamsong build a little Tiki hut out on a crossover point between the two courses and provide free dogs to the players, but 12 buck dogs could also leave the same sour taste as that wrench.  


 

[Jud_T]

Doesn't it depend a bit on how good the hot dog is?  Are they making their own sausages and home made brioche buns or is it an overcooked ball park frank on a Wonder Bread roll? Granted for $12 it had better be the former.  Do they at least have some good local microbrews available to wash it down with?

[Sven Nilsen]

Doesn't it depend a bit on how good the hot dog is?  Are they making their own sausages and home made brioche buns or is it an overcooked ball park frank on a Wonder Bread roll? Granted for $12 it had better be the former.  Do they at least have some good local microbrews available to wash it down with?

Even Chicago's finest purveyor of encased meat products doesn't reach this level of larceny.

Welcome to Hot Doug's!
The Sausage Superstore and
Encased Meat Emporium
3324 North California, Chicago, IL 60618

Today: February 12, 2013

The Game of the Week
Marsala and Roasted Garlic Wild Boar Sausage with Fig Mustard, Aged Iberico Cheese and Queen Olives
$7.50

The Jim Anderson (Today's Celebrity Sausage)
Hot Sauce Chicken Sausage with "Buffalo" Mustard and Smoked Blue Cheese drizzled with Honey
$7.50

Other Specials
Smoked Yak Sausage with Roasted Pepper Rouille, White Cheddar Cheese Curds and Crispy Fried Onions
$9.00

The Teuben: Swiss Cheese-stuffed Corned Beef Sausage with Russian Dressing, Smoked Swiss Cheese and Sauerkraut
$8.00

Spicy Thai Chicken Sausage with Sriracha Mustard, Sesame-Seaweed Salad and Duck Cracklings
$8.00

Philly Cheesesteak Beef Sausage with Cream Cheese Mustard, Caramelized Onions and Smoked Provolone Cheese
$8.00

Swedish Potato Sausage with Dill Mustard and Herrgardsost Cheese
$7.50

Kale and Walnut Pork Sausage with Sweet Curry Mustard and Mediterranean Spinach Cheese
$7.50

Foie Gras and Sauternes Duck Sausage with Truffle Aioli, Foie Gras Mousse and Fleur de Sel
$10.00

Jack Cheese-Stuffed Chicken Chorizo with Mole a la Carlos, Queso Asadero and Fried Tortillas
$8.00

Ginger-Spiked Rabbit Sausage with Apple Cream, Ricotta Salata and Cherry Preserves
$7.50

Shrimp 'n' Grits: Smoked Shrimp and Pork Sausage with Creole Mustard, Goat Cheese and Grits
$8.00

[Jud_T]

Sven,

Yes, Hot Doug's was the first thing that came to my mind as well.  At least if they were serving that level of dog the captive audience surcharge wouldn't be completely ridiculous.  I also think that when/if my cousin at Publican Quality Meats puts his mind to it, he'll blow Doug out of the water...

[Peter Pallotta]

Jim - thanks, a good analogy. (And they sure do keep selling those $400 drivers, don't they? With or without the wrench!)
Sven - indeed!
Jud - I feel like I've gotten a glimpse into you soul: who knew a phrase like "home made brioche buns" could roll so trippingly off your tongue

Peter

[Joel Zuckerman]

As mentioned above, I thought the hamburger I had on day one and the Reuben I had on day two were excellent, and as also mentioned,they came with unusual garnishes you don't often see with sandwiches, like jalapenos and really great pickles. The presentation was also first rate.

But still, $20, for the sandwich and a glass of water, including tax and tip is still pretty steep!

[Jim_Kennedy]

If you happened to be at Doogie's in Newington Ct. today you could buy on of these for 5 bucks . My stomach swoons.  





EDIT!!! That's not me  

[Josh Tarble]

fwiw, my buddy said it was the best dog he's ever eaten.  Seemed to be of the 12 inch variety.

One thing they did offer was free bottles of water everywhere.  One of the few resorts I've ever seen do that even.

[Jim_Kennedy]

fwiw, my buddy said it was the best dog he's ever eaten.

One would only hope.  

[Michael George]

I understand that resorts charge more due to having a captive audience and I usually don't have a problem with it.  For instance, I thought Bandon was reasonable with golf, food/drink, rooms and pro shop gear.  Pinehurst is a little more pricey than Bandon and it caused me to pause a little more (especially the taxes), but again it would not stop me from going back.  I expect to pay a premium at a resort.

HOWEVER, the key for Streamsong will be to determine what pricing they can charge without making the customer truly upset.  

In my experience, they want to be in the "DAMN THAT WAS PRICEY BUT OH WELL" level of pricing.  
Unfortunately, sounds like they are at the "ARE YOU F***ING KIDDING ME" level of pricing - at least with respect to hot dogs.  

Pebble Beach pricing would clearly fall in the second category, but it is so unique and is such a bucket list place that they can get away with it.  Plus, they are not as remote as Bandon or Pinehurst.

Streamsong's golf rates certainly look reasonable.  I have not looked at its other pricing, but I doubt it can get away with Pebble pricing and would suggest that they look at the Pinehurst model if they want to go one step higher than Bandon.

[Jud_T]

- like burgers (in my opinion), they don't lend themselves well to the gourmet treatment -

Hot Dogs maybe.  But Burgers?  You have to be kidding.  Why wouldn't you want the best possible meat, roll and condiments?  Next time you're in town we'll have to sort you out...

[Greg Tallman]

- like burgers (in my opinion), they don't lend themselves well to the gourmet treatment -

Hot Dogs maybe.  But Burgers?  You have to be kidding.  Why wouldn't you want the best possible meat, roll and condiments?  Next time you're in town we'll have to sort you out...

Definitely a difference with burgers but you can still reach the point of too much.

[Michael George]

The Chicago guys are the authority on hot dogs.  Nowhere in the world has better hot dog stands than in Chicago.  I remember living just north of Clark and Fullerton one summer and going up to the hot dog stand just north of me on Clark.  Simply, the best hot dog in the world.  Not worth $12, but a damn good hot dog.  Was always a tough call between Taco Burrito Palace, Eduardo's pizza and the hot dog stand. 

I know that I am biased but the best hamburger may just be in Akron, Ohio.  There is a place called Swensons and it is a drive up restaurant ala the original Arnold's in Happy Days.  The burgers are simply incredible.  One is located close to Lebron's house.  For Colton and the other basketball guys, if you drive up to Swensons on a summer night, it is 50-50 that Lebron is there in his car.  

[Eric Strulowitz]

Jim - I know you want to keep it light hearted, and I'm not angry or anything, but all kidding and rationalizations aside: 12 dollars is way too much for a hot dog, and the owners should be embarrassed. I bet there's a lot of golfers who'll find themelves not too far away (maybe with their families after driving down to Florida for a vacation) and who'll really look forward to treating themselves to 36 holes of wonderful golf, even if the price/green fee is a little out of their budget (and more expensive than many other Florida publics).  And they'll go, and they'll play, and they'll be very happy they did -- but one of the lingering memories will be that they paid 20 dollars for a hot dog and coke and 30 dollars for a hat, and they'll leave thinking :"Ah, this isn't a place that wants me as a return customer; they're targetting a much higher class of folks".  

Peter

Very well said Peter.

Seems to me that they are assuming a price inelasticity for a given target audience.  This may be a brilliant strategy, it may prove wrong.  One way to start up a business is to see what you can get, if it does not work, back track till you find a comfort level.  And each time you back track, you can create the illusion you are "giving" something, like discounted hot dogs or a sleave of balls, cheaper replay rounds,   or whatever.  Dont know if that is the strategy here, but it sure does seem like nickle and diming.  You pay for the golf, you have to pay for carts or a caddy, if you play for a cart you have to have a forecaddy you have to tip the caddys, and then you are going to pay premuim for food.  Plus, out of the way, costs and time associated with just getting there.    Because this is such a unique venue, will golfers just shake it off for the experience?   Will they want to retrun?.  Will potential golfers who want to go be scared away once they add up all the fixed and variable costs?  Or is the audience they are targeting big and resilient  enough cost wise that they  can generate sufficient revenues.  Who knows what the intent is, what the economic models are.  I certainly wish them the best of luck, it is a wondeful venue, can't wait to play it myself, but something just does not feel right here from a common sense standpoint.   The 12 dollar hot dog, if this is true, seems pushing it.  Because I am a walker, after a loop with potentially 90+ degree heat,  I could easily  eat 3 hot dogs at the turn and maybe a brew or two.  That would put lunch close to $50,  never paid that much anywhere for lunch, and I have played many top 100 all over the world.  

Interesting to see where this all goes in the next few years.  Wish them all the best.  

[Sven Nilsen]

The Chicago guys are the authority on hot dogs.  Nowhere in the world has better hot dog stands than in Chicago.  I remember living just north of Clark and Fullerton one summer and going up to the hot dog stand just north of me on Clark.  Simply, the best hot dog in the world.  Not worth $12, but a damn good hot dog.  Was always a tough call between Taco Burrito Palace, Eduardo's pizza and the hot dog stand. 

I know that I am biased but the best hamburger may just be in Akron, Ohio.  There is a place called Swensons and it is a drive up restaurant ala the original Arnold's in Happy Days.  The burgers are simply incredible.  One is located close to Lebron's house.  For Colton and the other basketball guys, if you drive up to Swensons on a summer night, it is 50-50 that Lebron is there in his car.  

Michael:

I think Brian would like the Wiener Circle just fine, and its nowhere near the best dog in town.  These days its more of a sideshow than a dining experience.  There's a world of difference between a dirty water dog and an artisan sausage.

Although its tough for me to knock a place called Swensons, I'm sure they import the beef from somewhere a little further west.  Go to where the source is for the best product.  For burgers, basic rules but you need to start with the right ingredients.  That being said, if you threw a fried egg and some Nueske's bacon on it I'd probably pay $12. 

As for anything coming from Tralee, these days I'd be looking at the other items on the menu at the chipper:

http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/01/17/horse-meat-found-in-irish-beef-burgers/

Sven

[Eric Smith]

- like burgers (in my opinion), they don't lend themselves well to the gourmet treatment -

Hot Dogs maybe.  But Burgers?  You have to be kidding.  Why wouldn't you want the best possible meat, roll and condiments?  Next time you're in town we'll have to sort you out...

Jud - the best burgers I have had in my life have not been "Gourmet" burgers - this, in my experience, means better quality and leaner meat - it just lacks taste -  it almostalways  also means that it comes with a denser, higher quality bread which, if there was no pattie would be  wonderful - but a beautiful patty deserves the utmost respect - a soft and light bun is what is needed. What I call "dirty" burgers usually have patties that are high in fat, heavily salted and the bread is appropriate for you to derive the main enjoyment from the patty. The "chippers" in my home town of Tralee have perfected this art. a small bit of lettuce, tomato, onions and "pink" sauce (combination of ketchup and mayo) and you have the perfect burger - taste wise. Not some big fancy presentation that falls down on taste.

Brian,

You would have loved late night in old Buckhead Atlanta. This one dude had a cheeseburger stand set up every Friday and Saturday night and killed it with these thin greasy, salt and pepper cheeseburgers that had so much flavor and delicious goodness you'd absolutely ruin it by putting anything between it and the bun. I used to order 3 at a time before walking back to my buddy's apartment after the bars closed. Reason being you'd eat one on the way, get inside, eat the other and still be craving another!

[PCCraig]

Doesn't it depend a bit on how good the hot dog is?  Are they making their own sausages and home made brioche buns or is it an overcooked ball park frank on a Wonder Bread roll? Granted for $12 it had better be the former.  Do they at least have some good local microbrews available to wash it down with?

Even Chicago's finest purveyor of encased meat products doesn't reach this level of larceny.

Welcome to Hot Doug's!
The Sausage Superstore and
Encased Meat Emporium
3324 North California, Chicago, IL 60618

Foie Gras and Sauternes Duck Sausage with Truffle Aioli, Foie Gras Mousse and Fleur de Sel
$10.00

"There are no two finer words in the English language than 'encased meats', my friend"

God I miss Hot Doug's... The Foie Dog is my favorite by far.

[David Kelly]

Pink's  Bacon Burrito Dog is only $6.10 and people wait in line 45 minutes to eat that crap.
BACON BURRITO DOG
Big flour tortilla wrapped around 2 hot dogs,
2 slices of cheese, 3 slices of bacon, chili & onions

The most expensive item on the menu is only $7.10:
America the Beautiful Dog
12" Jalapeno Dog, pastrami, bacon, lettuce, & chopped tomatoes

http://www.pinkshollywood.com/pgz/menu.html

[Alex Miller]

Doesn't it depend a bit on how good the hot dog is?  Are they making their own sausages and home made brioche buns or is it an overcooked ball park frank on a Wonder Bread roll? Granted for $12 it had better be the former.  Do they at least have some good local microbrews available to wash it down with?

Even Chicago's finest purveyor of encased meat products doesn't reach this level of larceny.

Welcome to Hot Doug's!
The Sausage Superstore and
Encased Meat Emporium
3324 North California, Chicago, IL 60618

Foie Gras and Sauternes Duck Sausage with Truffle Aioli, Foie Gras Mousse and Fleur de Sel
$10.00

"There are no two finer words in the English language than 'encased meats', my friend"

God I miss Hot Doug's... The Foie Dog is my favorite by far.

The Foie Dog immediately caught my eye. I visited what was a very good (though I imagine inferior) place in SF a couple months ago.

http://rosamundesausagegrill.com/mission-street/menu/

Fairly priced, I thought.