News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Nigel Islam

  • Karma: +0/-0
Sequoyah Country Club, Raynor?
« on: February 08, 2013, 10:56:26 AM »
While reading the Bay Area threads, Joel Stewart referenced a 2002 thread:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,2599.0.html

At the end of this is some discussion regarding Sequoyah, and some of the big names such as Egan, Hunter, and Seth Raynor who had some influence on the course. I was wondering if anybody had any more information. It seems as if the course is celebrating its 100th anniversary this year. I just found it to be an interesting story that I would like to know more about.

Tim Leahy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sequoyah Country Club, Raynor?
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2013, 02:03:38 PM »
I played Sequoyah CC a couple of years ago in an NCGA event and it was very fun and very difficult. Tree lined fairways with changes in elevation, built on the side of a hill and had very fast greens that were hard to read. It also had the only crossover hole I have ever played where one fairway actually crossed over another. I don't know about the designer but they did hold pro events there in the 1940's I think.
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

Gib_Papazian

Re: Sequoyah Country Club, Raynor?
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2013, 02:49:42 PM »
I recall Uncle George telling me in 1998 that Raynor had registered his routing plan for Sequoyah in the Southampton surveyors office. I've got a few friends who are members and was invited over by a Brit named Cauthen Hinshaw who I recall served as Club Historian.

Sequoyah has an impressive history with Hogan and Snead in the Oakland Open, but I was unable to find much in the way of architectural history beyond a proposed remodel - with drawings - done by Chandler Egan sometime in the 1930's.

The archives they do have were stuffed away in the Clubhouse Boardroom and I was about ready to declare a non-decision when a loud conversation in the hallway prompted me to close the enormous wooden door at the entrance to the room.

"What the heck is that?" I asked, looking at a large, framed routing plan on the wall behind the door.

Nobody had ever noticed it before, which seems impossible. I took it off the wall and gave it a close look. There was a Channel Hole, a Short and an obvious Biarritz amongst other things, but only portions of the course had been originally constructed on that routing and aside from records dating to the 30's, nobody was sure of much else.

I'm doing this out of memory, but I recall the railroad built the original course around 1910 or so and from what I could surmise - but it is only a guess - Raynor either stopped by on his way to Hawaii (Mid-Pacific) or when he came out to Olympic in 1917 and drew up his suggested modifications. What I thought must surely be the "Short" out on the course today was built in the 1950's(?) - so I was el wrongo on that one.

My sense is that they made some of Raynor's changes but not all of them. The Biarritz is obvious, all the way down to the geometric swales that were obviously bunkers where some numbskull planted a line of trees. Beyond that, my sincere advice to them was to build the Egan plan as it provides the rare opportunity for a club to construct a "new" Golden Age course - in effect, resurrecting Egan's genius from the grave.

I've played very little golf the last eight years, but last I heard, my friend Doug Nickels had done just that - with some modifications for the modern game. I'm ashamed to say I've not been back, but if the work came out like his effort at Burlingame Country Club (I live around the corner), I'm sure Egan would approve.        
« Last Edit: February 09, 2013, 04:07:30 PM by Gib Papazian »

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sequoyah Country Club, Raynor?
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2013, 03:12:09 PM »
Bahto states in EofG that Raynor's plans were never implemented.

Willie Lock was the pro as of 1916 (three years after the 1913 date given for the formation of the club).  Not sure if he had any involvement with its design.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2013, 03:14:17 PM by Sven Nilsen »
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Gib_Papazian

Re: Sequoyah Country Club, Raynor?
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2013, 03:41:05 PM »
Sven,

I do not believe that is 100% correct at this point. Remember, I'm the editor and did some of the West Coast research. The Biarritz and the now defunct Channel Hole (housing) demonstrate to me that some part of the plans were implemented, but certainly not enough to identify it as a "Raynor" anything.   

Nigel Islam

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sequoyah Country Club, Raynor?
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2013, 03:45:09 PM »
Thanks Gib,

Do you know what hole is the Biarritz? Based on length I was assuming 17, but I could not reconcile that with the satellite photos. It would be cool for that course to implement those plans, sort of like Lookout Mountain did (and is still trying to do).

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sequoyah Country Club, Raynor?
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2013, 03:48:24 PM »
Gib:

You're right and I should clarify.  Bahto notes "plans submitted" but does not include any information on whether or not they were implemented.

Sven
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Gib_Papazian

Re: Sequoyah Country Club, Raynor?
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2013, 06:37:29 PM »
Unless I am hallucinating, #14 was the "Biarritz.

Again, I have not been there since Doug did the work and he regards this website as a collection of crackerboxes, but I can ask him if you like.

Nigel Islam

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sequoyah Country Club, Raynor?
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2013, 06:50:34 PM »
Gib, you don't have to ask him.
 What other courses was Raynor involved with besides CP, MPCC, Olympic, and the two Hawaii courses out west?

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sequoyah Country Club, Raynor?
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2013, 06:52:01 PM »
Nigel:

There was a thread about a month back that listed almost all of the Raynor courses other than those that George is saving for the book.  Do a quick search for Raynor and Definitive and it should come up.

Sven
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Nigel Islam

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sequoyah Country Club, Raynor?
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2013, 12:00:34 AM »
Was Sequoyah on the list?

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sequoyah Country Club, Raynor?
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2013, 12:34:42 AM »
Here's the thread.  Sequoyah was included in one of the posts.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,54531.0.html
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Jeff_Stettner

Re: Sequoyah Country Club, Raynor?
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2013, 11:57:00 AM »
Playing Sequoyah this morning... will post some photos. As for Raynor? Best guess is that none of it was ever enacted (the routing of holes 5,6, & 7 were, based on what I know, never laid out in the manor that Raynor presented).

Really excited to see the new green complexes that are opened up with the removal of trees between 3 and 17. The first few looks I have seen are really cool.

Gib_Papazian

Re: Sequoyah Country Club, Raynor?
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2013, 02:42:47 PM »
Nigel,

Raynor was commissioned to lay out a course for Olympic, superimposed over the "Lakeside Country Club" course that we purchased after it ran into financial trouble sometime around 1917.

The routing plan we have on the wall was intended to be his "West Coast Lido." The only interview of sorts he ever gave was to a writer for our club magazine "The Olympian."

Unfortunately, the war broke out and to the best of my memory, the club decided it needed 36 holes to accommodate the coming golf craze. Thus, no part of Raynor's plans were ever implemented.

The sad part is that when it was decided a few years back to completely remodel the Ocean Course - following the loss of four holes on the water (plus two, partially constructed) - I brought up the idea to the committee of building a modified version of the Raynor plans.

Sorry to state that not only was it never given a moment of consideration, only two on the committee had even a vague notion of who Raynor was.

Club politics being what they are, my attempt to explain to the Green Chair at that time the opportunity that lay before him was a waste of time. So often, positions of authority are awarded the same way as in Washington D.C. - intellect and knowledge take a back seat to cronyism and there is no point in trying to educate the willfully ignorant.

Those plans still sit framed on the wall, Raynor's ghost taunting me every time I walk to my locker.

Aggravating. Unbelievably aggravating.

       

 

Jeff Bertch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sequoyah Country Club, Raynor?
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2013, 03:12:44 PM »
Those plans still sit framed on the wall, Raynor's ghost taunting me every time I walk to my locker. 

Gib,

I apologize if I am imposing, but any chance you can post a picture of those plans?

Jeff
you know...a caddie, a looper, a jock

Gib_Papazian

Re: Sequoyah Country Club, Raynor?
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2013, 03:18:52 PM »
It would be difficult to get a detailed image without removing the plans from the frame - there is fairly reflective glass in front - and putting some tungsten light on them. The plans have faded a bit, but I'll try to get a good exposure with my 5D.

Nigel Islam

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sequoyah Country Club, Raynor?
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2013, 10:56:39 PM »

Those plans still sit framed on the wall, Raynor's ghost taunting me every time I walk to my locker. 

Sounds like you needed C.B. MacDonald on your side to push that one through!

Alex Lagowitz

Re: Sequoyah Country Club, Raynor?
« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2013, 11:13:14 PM »
It would be difficult to get a detailed image without removing the plans from the frame - there is fairly reflective glass in front - and putting some tungsten light on them. The plans have faded a bit, but I'll try to get a good exposure with my 5D.

that'd be awesome
It would be very interesting to see how Raynor routed in that land, considering what has been built and what could have etc.

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back