[Jeff_Mingay]

I should know the answer to this, but I don't...

Are there any golf courses in the Pacific Northwest that do a really good job with keeping native grass areas thin, wispy and attractive? There must be. A few of my client clubs in the region are adverse to introducing native grass areas, thinking that the climate and abundance of rain will definitely result in thick, matted, unplayable and ugly native grass areas.

Curious,

[Tom_Doak]

Bandon has some good native grasses in areas.  It works there because it's sandy.  Soils are always the most important factor in the playability of native grasses.

[Pete_Pittock]

Cenral and eastern Washington courses. Central, eastern and southern Oregon courses. These are high mountain deserts.

[David Minogue]

Jeff, as Tom has pointed out native grasses perform better on sand ie(fescue). This is due to fertility, these grasses need very low rates to survive and thats why they seem to thrive on links land. On clay soils these grasses tend to become more as you described thick and matted because of the types of soils plus excess water doesnt help either. Alot of courses I have seen where they have tried to have these whispy native areas have had problems trying to control the grass and execute the look of what the architect may have wanted. I have also noticed when the groundstaff have been out fetilising surrounds, fairways, etc that these areas are often getting fertiliser accidentally when those areas are in no need of it. All these exacerbate the problem of keeping the grasses thin so that you can find your ball and play out of it. Cheers.

[Jon Wiggett]

Jeff,

as already said sandy soils help but it is really low fertility that is the key so stripping the topsoil back to the 'B' soil will go a long way to achieving thinner swards as will cutting and baling or grazing regularly.

Jon

[Matthew Essig]

Cenral and eastern Washington courses. Central, eastern and southern Oregon courses. These are high mountain deserts.

+1

[Garland Bayley]

Cenral and eastern Washington courses. Central, eastern and southern Oregon courses. These are high mountain deserts.

+1

... abundance of rain ...

[Jeff_Mingay]

I wasn't really thinking about Bandon or the desert courses, more Seattle- and Portland-type situations.  

Thanks for the responses. Pretty standard stuff really, which makes me think that with some effort and proper preparation, and attention to detail with the maintenance of these areas, native grasses on golf courses in the rainy, clay soils areas of the Pacific Northwest might still work!

 

[Greg Cameron]

Jeff,Chambers Bay is best example I can think of what you seek,and short of stripping out existing topsoil and replacing with sand/or clay I"ve always thought of burning(controlled of course) as my grandpa did in the fall to his farm back in the 60 s.Good luck with permissions,checkout u tube,I recall seeing a super do it,can"t find it now.Turfhugger?.....Greg

[Joe Stansell]

Chambers Bay is an excellent example -- and also for the reason Tom suggests.

[Tyler Kearns]

I wasn't really thinking about Bandon or the desert courses, more Seattle- and Portland-type situations.  

Thanks for the responses. Pretty standard stuff really, which makes me think that with some effort and proper preparation, and attention to detail with the maintenance of these areas, native grasses on golf courses in the rainy, clay soils areas of the Pacific Northwest might still work!

 

Jeff,

Obviously, one of the key issues in maintaining sparse, wispy native areas is keeping irrigation water off, otherwise, they can grow out of control and begin to slow play with players searching for stray balls. Not an ideal situation. 

It seems possible to get the conditions you desire as long as the out-of-play areas slated for native grasses aren't prepared in the same manner as fairways, for example, with a 6" layer of topsoil/sand/peat mix which would allow the native grasses to thrive during rainy periods, and negatively affect playability.  Planting native grasses at a much lower than recommended seed rate may also help to ensure those areas grow-in thin and wispy.

TK

[Dan Herrmann]

IMHO, Trying to get thin/wispy grass conditions in metro-Portland is a waste of time.  It's either too wet (October 16 thru June) or too dry (July - October 15).

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