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archie_struthers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Woodcrest CC (Flynn) in Cherry Hill, NJ UPDATE- Breaking news...
« Reply #75 on: June 04, 2013, 12:14:33 PM »
 8) :D ;)


Fred R always nice to hear from you. Appreciate your hard work with GAP to promote competition and the game . Hope u can visit us and play at the shore this summer.

I first saw Woodcrest at eight years old , when we used to go sledding on the 13 th (old routing ) hill leading away from the green towards the creek . We often succeeded in eluding apprehension to have some great fun

At 11 I started caddying there , and had a great time right thru high school . It was a an excellent place to work, and just thinking about the food at the half way house makes my mouth water.  Phyllis was the worlds greatest cook!

As to the then 16th renovation ..... The green was much flatter , much flatter than it is today , and ti
he elevations were changed significantly at some point .  I rather likes the old green , as it required precision  , which seems the best quality of Woodcrest . I'm heading over there today and will take a peek to rekindle my memory of same .
« Last Edit: June 04, 2013, 12:35:38 PM by archie_struthers »

fred ruttenberg

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Woodcrest CC (Flynn) in Cherry Hill, NJ UPDATE- Breaking news...
« Reply #76 on: June 04, 2013, 06:11:41 PM »
I think you are confusing the15th green ( which was flat and significantly and poorly changed) with the 16th which was just extended to its original footprint.

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Here are the rates:

http://thevillageatwoodcrest.com/prices/

No senior discount.  >:(
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Bill Shotzbarger

  • Karma: +0/-0
A little expensive? Or is that the market rate for public golf in Philly/SJ?

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Bill - yeah, that's really expensive.  IMHO, it's more than the course is worth.  I'd price it about $85 to walk until they thin out the trees.

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Woodcrest CC (Flynn) in Cherry Hill, NJ UPDATE- "Over my dead body..."
« Reply #82 on: September 28, 2013, 10:22:19 AM »
Barry,
Woodcrest isn't anywhere close to Flynn's best.  To start, some of the holes aren't Flynn, and a lot of Flynn's bunkers have been lost over the years.  


Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
I sure hope it can remain as open space.   That area is a traffic nightmare, and more housing would be a planning disaster.

Patrick_Mucci

Steve,

What a shame that this terrific golf course is in jeopardy of becoming an NLE.

It had some world class holes and a great collection of par 3's

The leadership and the membership brought on their own demise by spending vast sums the didn't have in order to build a Taj Mahal.
And for what reason ?
Bragging right ?
Betting on the come ?

This is what happens to great golf course when the focus is redirected away from the golf course and toward the social aspect with emphasis on the physical plant.

What a shame

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Steve,

What a shame that this terrific golf course is in jeopardy of becoming an NLE.

It had some world class holes and a great collection of par 3's

The leadership and the membership brought on their own demise by spending vast sums the didn't have in order to build a Taj Mahal.
And for what reason ?
Bragging right ?
Betting on the come ?

This is what happens to great golf course when the focus is redirected away from the golf course and toward the social aspect with emphasis on the physical plant.

What a shame

I'd like to disagree with you, Mr. Green Ink, but most of the facts are on your side.

I like the Woodcrest CC and Arboretum, but I just wish the  club had focused more on the former.
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Jon Cavalier

  • Karma: +0/-0
I played here as part of a foursome of hardcore golfers last summer shortly after the course became public.  After the round, the manager came out to talk to us about the course, and asked if we had any comments.

One of the guys in my group told him that we had discussed it during the round and all shared the same opinion - that was the course was a lot of fun and provided some very enjoyable golf, we all thought that at $125 for weekend play, it was far too expensive. We explained that this made it by far the most expensive public course in the philly area - you'd have to go to Baltimore (Bulle Rock) or Atlantic City to find rates as high. And there are several excellent options in the area well under $100.

The manager laughed at him and told him that Woodcrest was far and away the best course in the area, and that they could charge whatever they wanted and people would come. That was when I knew the place was doomed. Shame too.
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archie_struthers

  • Karma: +0/-0
 :)

Had a meeting with the current owners of  Woodcrest shortly after they purchased the property . Suggested a blended program of membership which would build the base , which appeared to be the best option for them . As previously stated , grew up caddying there and still love the place .

More importantly , really wanted them to reverse the nines to the original layout .  Althought the current 18 is a heroic par five , it is super hard for the average player , an overlooked  architectural flaw IMHO.   Business is business and big scores on the last hole lead  to trunk slamming and just isn't fun.  The previous routing , with the 18th a benign par four , worked better . The whole back nine plays better after a warm up , as it is really tight and strategic.  The first tee shot , another issue , is way too tight for,the first swing and leads to slow play right from jump street.


A tough tee shot to start , brute of a finisher , not so good , particularly at a public or semi private .  

Don't misunderstand the golf course is loads of fun if overgrown a bit.  Always in superior condition !  


Re-read my earlier post where Fred R commented as to #16. . Fred , I go way back , I'm talking changes to the original 16 , a tough par three. I know they also changed the original #6 . Now 15!
« Last Edit: May 19, 2014, 07:34:20 AM by archie_struthers »

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Jon Cavalier - unfortunately, I've found that most GMs are F&B (restaurant) guys that know little about golf.  The Woodcrest manager is obviously one of them.

Patrick_Mucci


Jon Cavalier - unfortunately, I've found that most GMs are F&B (restaurant) guys that know little about golf. 
The Woodcrest manager is obviously one of them.

Dan, et. al,

Isn't that part of the inherent problem at Woodcrest and elsewhere ?

Where the non-golfing elements dominated the running of the club ?

Where the focus was on the chicken salad and not the golf course ?

I saw the demise of Woodcrest, albeit, from a distance.

I'll never forget the feeling I got when I first walked into that massive, redesigned clubhouse and thought to myself, in the immortal words of Vince Lombardi, "What the hell is going on out there ?"

What a shame.

This is what happens when you let non-golfers take over the running of a golf/country club.


archie_struthers

  • Karma: +0/-0
 ::)


Isn't it endemic to many businesses today . With all due respect , are accountants better operators of casinos than guys and girls who know customer service and the gambler?  Can they possibly get the same enthusiasm and esprit de corps than someone who has fought their way up thru the ranks?

Yet we consistently see finance guys in the top spot .


As to Woodcrest , it became victim to,a changing demographic amongst its membership , as the main drivers grew old and weren't replaced with younger members .  The pricing got crazy , and the ongoing costs of fueling the new clubhouse got unwieldy .   But the golf course bones are good . Flip the damn nines back , please !







Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Well said - with some serious tree removal and a wrecking ball to the clubhouse, this could be a fantastic club/course.

Flynn would be happy :)

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
The place is so overgrown, as Archie said earlier.

I played there with Mike Cirba last year and we left being almost mad at how the place looks.  I joked that they should have changed the name to Woodcrest Country Club & Arboretum.
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

fred ruttenberg

  • Karma: +0/-0
The Club now has 200 members and is restricting outside play.The course has never been in better condition and rivals anything in the Delaware Valley.  The present owners are doing a great job and running it better than we did s members.
Archie-reversing the nines  was my idea back in 1982 when I was president.  It makes for a much better course.  The old 18th was an uninteresting hole and ended in front of the club where no one gathered.  The present finish 16-18 are great holes.  It is also a great spot to watch players finish the round.  By the way, the original Flynn layout ended on what is now the 4th hole-also a great par 5.

archie_struthers

  • Karma: +0/-0
 >: 8)


Fred , I have  such great memories of Woodcrest and it's good news that the members are enjoying themselves.   Figured you  had a hand reversing the nines but we can agree to disagree. At first blush it makes sense for the reasons you stated, but long term the playability factor trumps all !   Always nice to hear from you .


As to tree removal , lots and lots of opportunity to sell some lumber!
« Last Edit: May 23, 2014, 12:49:17 AM by archie_struthers »

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
"Timber!" should be the sound coming from Woodcrest :)

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

archie_struthers

  • Karma: +0/-0


Good stuff, thanks .  I would still strongly recommend that the owners reverse the nines for a few reasons .

Opening tee shot is very difficult and lost balls proliferate , pace of play and just good Karma !


The golf course has some really tough holes on back nine , these being 12,13,14 and 18.  I realize that people may consider 18 a "signature " and it is a great view from the clubhouse , but too many people screw it up . By flipping the nines back to the original , you get a quicker start , better flow and it's more wide open early.  The current front nine requires precision shotmaking and is better played warmed up .

Love Woodcrest, really a gem!