[Ronald Montesano]

http://www.golfwrx.com/68635/out-of-bounds-why-public-golf-has-lost-its-appeal/

This does not hold in western New York and southern Ontario; perhaps that's due to the short season and the "champing at the bit" to get out and play. However, we do have saturation in the Buffalo area and I would not be surprised to see a course or two pursue a new business model.

[archie_struthers]

 


Yes , the economy stinks, no matter what the politicians spout, and it is impacting the golf business. Combine that with oversupply , and voila, we have a problem Houston.

[Mark Pritchett]

Is Private Golf In An Upward Trend? 

[Josh Tarble]

I don't think its necessarily a problem, more of the market naturally leveling itself.

No longer are the days where weekend golfers are paying $90+ dollars to play their normal course.

But take a look at the slow play thread, numerous people (including myself) are talking about packed courses.

[Eric Strulowitz]

http://www.golfwrx.com/68635/out-of-bounds-why-public-golf-has-lost-its-appeal/

This does not hold in western New York and southern Ontario; perhaps that's due to the short season and the "champing at the bit" to get out and play. However, we do have saturation in the Buffalo area and I would not be surprised to see a course or two pursue a new business model.

Of course, public golf is in a downward trend.  The biggest reason IMHO is demographics.

The average age at my club, especially during the week, is way over 60.  Great to see these guys out, moving about, socializing,  and getting exercise, but very few young people.  Young people today do not have the patience this game requires.  The practice, the time getting to and from the course and the time playing, and all the nice things that surround the sport like tweaking your eqipment, 19th hole, etc.  Young peolle have very short attention spans, this has been accelerated by cell phones and texting.  Cell phones and texting certainly have their benefits, but most people are now glued to these devices.  This is not healthy.  I know many young people in my own family that experience some pretty severe anxiety if they go a few minutes without checking their texts or responding.  So , how the heck can you focus on something like golf, that does require some degree of focus.  We have a generation that requires constrant validation of who they are, and that they are part of a social network, and this validation is not a weekly, or daily, or even hourly thing, it is sometimes by the minute.  Someone that is this narcissitic and requires constant validation and need to interact with a  social network hourly and sometimes by the minute sure is not going to want to play golf.   We have lost the ability to take a deep breath, look at all the beauty around us, enjoy the potential for real and lasting freidnships, for many people it is all about keeping the texting going on and on, just for the shear sake of it.  It is highly addictive, and when you try to curtail it you get defensiveness and anxiety.  If anyone does not believe this is a serious problem, I guess they have been drawn into this also, or they have just thorown their hands up in disgust and learned to accept it as the new normal.   It nevers end, it is an endless loop.  My heart goes out for these people, they are missing so much of what life has to offer. 

Then you can add stupidity to the equation.  Folks playing from the wrong tees, lining up every putt like they are a pro, marching off yardages, pondering every shot like it really means something.  And there is just plain selflishness.  A golf course is a community, it takes just one or two people to back up the whole course and frustrate a lot of people.  Customer service is such an issue, because you are afraid of intiidating customers, that the course is reluctant to be assertive. 

Then, you can add the economic facotr.  The game is very expensive.  We have these stupid elaborate clubhouses, pro shops, all this overhead to support the playing field.   Why can't we just focus more on the playing field, why do golfers need to be "pampered" and be surrounded by such grandur at times.  There is a cost to all this.   And then all this incredible conditioning, where Augusta natonal is viewed as a model by the weekend golfer and brown is viewed as bad.

The game is cooked in the long run. And that is not some great national tragedy, things are changing, forces beyond our control.  Of course, there will always be golfers and great golf courses. But the boom is gone.  What a boom it was, remember the times when courses were going up everywhere, and weekend tee times were a real commoidty.   For those of us who love the game, these tough times present opportunities. Being able to get on courses that were once very difficult.  Can't tell you how many once exclusive clubs now have tee times open to the public and have these "member for a day" deals. 

[Dan Herrmann]

Eric,
Sounds like your club is the one that's hosed, not the game in general.

We have a lot of young players.  I remember some that are now in college playing 10 years ago.  Often, they're the ones that practice most, play the most (no jobs or part-time jobs), and improve the most.    Club champions often now come out of this demographic.

I don't see ANYTHING you mention in your 3rd paragraph.  Honestly, if I were you'd I'd look at alternatives in your area.

------------------------------------------------
Is public golf in a downward trend?  Nah.

[Tom_Doak]

I'm not sure that any "trend" is meaningful in the golf industry.  People in Traverse City don't decide to play (or not play) based on what others in Georgia are doing.  Do they?

IMHO, part of the reason public golf has been slipping is that municipal golf courses have been demonized by both the right (for competing with private operators) and the left (golf is an elitist game), not to mention by their own regular golfers (who refuse to accept even a minimal cost-of-living increase in the green fee).  There used to be many cities that had thriving municipal golf programs, but many of those courses are now in a state of complete disrepair.  And the private operators haven't picked up the slack, because they are charging too much.

[Eric Strulowitz]

Eric,
Sounds like your club is the one that's hosed, not the game in general.

We have a lot of young players.  I remember some that are now in college playing 10 years ago.  Often, they're the ones that practice most, play the most (no jobs or part-time jobs), and improve the most.    Club champions often now come out of this demographic.

I don't see ANYTHING you mention in your 3rd paragraph.  Honestly, if I were you'd I'd look at alternatives in your area.

------------------------------------------------
Is public golf in a downward trend?  Nah.

Public and private golf are both in a downward trend right now, to believe otherwise is being in some alternative universe.  Yes, there will always be golf and golfers, but the growth we have witnessed is gone.  We are in decline, a contraction.  That is not necessarily bad in a macro sense, it is not a national tragedy, it is just what it is.   

There might be a lot of young players where you are, but young people are not migrating to the game to sustain it at the level of previous generations,  Do a google search, many articles on this.  Here is just one: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704635204575242360769906000.html

A  generation that is addicted to electronic gadgetry is not going to find golf attractive.  This game takes time, between geting back and forth, 4-5 hour rounds, practice, fiddling with equipment, etc.   Attention spans are at an all time low, golf requires attention and  a whole lot of perserverence.  Golf is just not a game for many, it is a social experience.  Enjoying the club, having a few drinks, being with friends.  It is real people,  real places,  real interactions.  This new generation, well many young people are quite happy to have it virtual.  On-line chatting and texting is good enough.  Kids don't get out and play anymore, they stay locked up in their rooms and text non-stop.  This is not conducive to the growth of golf, or any sport, or a society equipped to compete on a world market for that matter.  It is going to create a generation of sedentary, obese, and socially inept cretins.  What other way to describe it.  Those kids that rise above all this, and those parents that really parent,  those kids are going to own it all,  there will be very little competition.  Yes, there are amazing generational, sociological, and demographic shifts occuring, and it is not conducive to growing our game.  Or growing a whole lot of anything else for that matter!.   


My parents are retirees living on a beautiful course, it is struggling.   I remember the days, it seemed every 10 minutes a foursome was coming though from dusk to dawn.  Now there are hours where no one comes through, it is beyond spooky!  Because a lot of the older people who played golf are now sick or have died off, the younger people moving into the community could care less about golf.  A few years ago, the public could not play this course, now it is public,  today as we speak they have a special of $10 to play 9 holes.    There is a downward spiral everywhere, yes there are pockets of opportunity and successful venutres, but how many compared to prior years.

What really has opened my eyes is that I am planning a 2 week swing through Florida in a few months.  Amazing, how many courses that were private are now semi-private, and how many courses I have played on previous swings are closed.  And the bargains are just amazing.  A lot of private courses are offering these "member for a day deals", and if you go to some of the online tee times, both public and private courses are giving tee times away, rack rate  appears to be totally unnecessary.    For those of us who are gainfully employed and have a lot of time on our hands, this is a godsend.   Not a godsend for the folks in the business though.  I imagine there are a lot of developers and designers on the sidelines right now, my heart goes out to them, because what beautiful work they do.   The demand has diminished.

Golf will always be around, and golfers will always be around.  This group is special, the love of the game and the aesthetics and an appreication of the brilliance of someone that takes land and sculptures in into a wonderful playing field.  I love reading the articles, seeing the tours of the courses around the world, the get togethers, and hearing from the designers themselves.  But....  this is a microcosm,   It is not representative even remotely of the average golfer.   You cannot assume that our enthusiasm is contagious or shared by most golfers.  It is not,   the game is in decline. 

[Jim Sherma]

I'm not sure that any "trend" is meaningful in the golf industry.  People in Traverse City don't decide to play (or not play) based on what others in Georgia are doing.  Do they?

IMHO, part of the reason public golf has been slipping is that municipal golf courses have been demonized by both the right (for competing with private operators) and the left (golf is an elitist game), not to mention by their own regular golfers (who refuse to accept even a minimal cost-of-living increase in the green fee).  There used to be many cities that had thriving municipal golf programs, but many of those courses are now in a state of complete disrepair.  And the private operators haven't picked up the slack, because they are charging too much.

Agree wholeheartedly with this take on the subject.

When we discuss public golf there are two main branches of the tree and the problems facing them are different.

The resorts and CCFAD are public access but not what I would call public golf. They are facing a n issue of oversupply and businesses pulling abck some of the spending that supported theoir models through off-sites and entertaining budgets.

The more interesting branch are the muni's and low to mid level public courses that used to cater to the every-week blue collar foursomes that caused the golf-surge post-WW2. This surge was driven by TV, Eisenhower and Arnie bringing the sport to the masses. Another important aspect of this was that back then the economy was creating jobs that allowed for a growing middle class that allowed for a regular golfing schedule and a solid family and home life. I grew up in Bethlehem, PA when the steel mills were still humming and Bethlehem Muni and the other publics had a really solid backbone of regular players who worked for the Steel company or the railroads that supported them. As the mills closed and wages across the middle of the income distribution stagnated there are less and less blue collar golfers that have the types of jobs that can afford the lifestyle that golf demands in terms of time and money.

This is a problem that is independent of the golf industry. Many of the adult sports/activities that have been discussed in the "upward trend" thread have investments that are much more modest in terms of both time and money. During and after college I knew many guys that got heavily into disc-golf. I played for a while until I started getting shoulder problems. It's a good game and many of the personalities that were serious disc golfers easily would fit into the regular golf scene. The big difference was the money investment that most of the disc-guys just could not make. I fear that golf is really losing the midele income regular golfer from the scene and it is reverting back towards its historical roots to a smaller and on average more elite demographic.

[Dan Herrmann]

How are the Portland, OR munis doing?  When I lived there 20 years ago, Heron Lakes, Rose City, Eastmoreland, and Progress Downs (now renamed) did a great business.  They made so much money, that they "gave" some of their profits to support public art projects.

[Dave McCollum]

Here’s my personal view from an old codger the trenches:

 I tend to agree with downtrend views.  My perspective is small town, affordable public golf.  I don’t know how to characterize our demographics.  I don’t think our regulars would be offended by calling them working middle class (or even lower middle class in a few cases).  We do have a lot of older golfers that are retired or living off fixed incomes.  We have a few older affluent (upper middle class) golfers.  We also have a bunch of kids because we support junior golf aggressively (and, yes, we communicate with them on Facebook and with texts).  We need to build up the younger working golfers because they just don’t seem to be there as much now as before 2008.  In 2009—2012 our rounds fell off 13% and have never really recovered.  We have lots of open tee times.  In our market, we have more courses than golfers to fill them.  We are one of the busiest courses, if not the busiest, in terms of rounds played, but not nearly as busy as we were 15 to 20 years ago before three new venues opened (two have closed).  We are way down in all categories of golfers:  season passes (members) and general fee players.  Play was flat before the recession, dropped dramatically during it, and has not recovered. 

Even though we are one of the “established” courses (we have been around for 39 years), it’s a very tough business environment.  It’s a struggle just to stay in business.  We have to rely on other on-site revenue streams to support the golf.  We generate power, grow fish, and heat our buildings with our geothermal resources.  We have abundant water resources.  We lease land for a zipline.  All major investment since 2008 has been to grow these other revenue streams.  We have to work hard to market the golf and our efforts are increasingly web-based.  It sure seems like marketing is more about stealing golfers from other venues than attracting new ones.  The golf business is not as much fun as it used to be.

[Tom_Doak]

Dave:

Thanks for the reality check.

Do you think there is still a downward trend, or are we just on a lower plateau than we used to be when everybody could pay with Monopoly money?

[Michael Blake]

Dave:

Thanks for the reality check.

+1

Also Dave,
Enjoyed the article in the current Golf Inc. about your Canyon Springs Golf Course.  I applaud your attempts to 'educate' your members.  And you are indeed correct to 'keep your customers satisfied.'  Good luck.  I'm rooting for you.

[Dave McCollum]

Tom,

I’m betting the farm that you are correct that we are at the low point.  I am not betting on golf; I’m betting on fish, in my view, the best profit center for us.  If the fish do well, I’ll probably blow it on golf, my passion.  I’m crazy that way.  I have a really good site, spectacular location, the belief I could make it a lot better, maybe really good, and the crazy ambitions that somebody would care.  I’m fascinated by the notion of attracting traveling affluent golfers, not just to tap their wallets, but to give pleasure to folks who share my passions.  So far, despite an open invitation to all of our colleagues on this site to be my guest, none have bothered.  Fair enough, we define “in the middle of nowhere.”  I wouldn’t travel to see my course based on my exposure here. 

Michael,

I was wondering when that article would appear.  I did the interview some months ago.  It was instigated by a rant on this site.  My usual perspective from the “Joe Blow” golfer, a boring refrain that we in the treehouse don’t lose contact with “real” golfers in the real world.  I understand that most here don’t give a shit about that point of view.  But the reality remains that we are the exceptions and our concerns are rare.  The average American golfer doesn’t know or care what we are talking about.  It’s sad and a little depressing, but that’s the way it is.  I feel it is my honest contribution to be included in this discussion, although apocryphal, heretical, and against the grain.  We’re all about golfers, no matter how unenlightened or ignorant they may be from our point of view.   In this business, we’re talking about customers, the paying public, and their concerns are a reality that we have to care about.  Way it is.                     

[RJ_Daley]

Dave, considering various income streams and profit centers in your unusual operation with fish and power, is it fair to say you are also down greatly in your income from F&B?  Could you give us a thumb nail sketch of what your F&B has been like year over year for last two decades, and even better if you could isolate the alcohol sales separately.  I'm guessing that your margin has been cut in about half in profit on a per drink cost.  No doubt the margin has shrunk in food as well.  But I could imagine that alcohol is a double whammy.  First, there may be a natural cost of product and cost of sale that was simply diminished due to less golfers.  But perhaps even more of a factkr that diminishes your sales of alcohol may be the changing mores on drinking, and drinking and driving.

I have no doubt that at the muni where I am a regular customer/golfer/post-round pub and grubber, along with frequenting the restaurant run as a dinner club along side golf operations, the real reduction of the profit center of F&B can be attributed in large part to the fact people don't drink as much, due to the drinking and driving risk factor primarily. 

What do you think of new attitudes about drinking and if that may be a factor in declined sales and lower profits?

[Carl Rogers]

Like politics, golf is local.   

In SE Virginia, there are a lot of golf options reasonably priced and moderately accessible.  There have been few (zero, I think) new private courses started in the last 10 years.  I attribute that to the fact that public golf (meaning accessible golf) is pretty solid (not great) and that the existing private courses do not offer anything any better.  Many are marketing for new members.  Many members of these older privates hang on only because they have made substantial dues investments over time.  I get "invitations" for free rounds from several privates often. Elizabeth Manor, a minor Dick Wilson, with a Lester George re-do, has dipped its toe into the the semi-private.

It would be interesting to really look at some case studies, but that would require a lot of very private information.

I do find Mr. Strulowitz pronouncements about the younger generation, not untrue, but a bit of an over generalization.

[Paul Gray]

Dave et al,

How very refreshing to read of someone with the foresight to think a bit bigger picture than the immediate future. To me,the last thing you sound like is an old codger.

I'd suggest, much as can been seen in any part of the economy, here in Britain we are seeing a redressing of the excess supply which appears in any boom period within a boom and bust economic model. Cheap green fees are plentiful and those clubs with the ability to float in the mid term will keep their heads above water whilst other less dynamic clubs will continue to vanish. Has it ever not been thus?

This is not a time for panic about the future of the game, simply an opportunity for the whet to be separated from the chaff and, putting my wildly optimistic/idealistic hat on, an opportunity for the bite of economic reality to force a natural leaning towards the dominance of nature over man's more exuberant, ugly and expensive working of the land.

[Sean_A]

In Michigan I would say there is very much a downward trend in public golf.  Just a glance at green fees make this very obvious.  For the muni/ma & pa/low cost options, green fees have not gone up in the near 14 years since I left.  If anything, green fees are cheaper.  I find this to be incredible and have all the sympathy in the world for these guys trying to make a living because without these guys I would never have taken up the game.

Ciao 

[Tim_Weiman]

Eric,

I enjoyed your comments. Someday I'd like to read a comprehensive analysis of the impact of things like cell phones, texting, social media, etc.

One kind of weird thing I have experienced is sitting in a conference room witching about ten people having a meeting, but nobody, including the boss who called the meeting is really paying attention. Instead, everyone is really glued to their cell phones.

Even worse was a business lunch I went to. There were two reps from a vendor, myself and a colleague who barely participated in the conversation nor reacted when his meal was brought. The only thing my colleague paid attention to was his phone. Really rude.

Another interesting thing was a comment from a young person who basically said that reading or knowledge wasn't necessary. Google was all that mattered!

[Eric Strulowitz]

Eric,

I enjoyed your comments. Someday I'd like to read a comprehensive analysis of the impact of things like cell phones, texting, social media, etc.

One kind of weird thing I have experienced is sitting in a conference room witching about ten people having a meeting, but nobody, including the boss who called the meeting is really paying attention. Instead, everyone is really glued to their cell phones.

Even worse was a business lunch I went to. There were two reps from a vendor, myself and a colleague who barely participated in the conversation nor reacted when his meal was brought. The only thing my colleague paid attention to was his phone. Really rude.

Another interesting thing was a comment from a young person who basically said that reading or knowledge wasn't necessary. Google was all that mattered!

Hi Tim

Appreciate your comments also.

I am a health care provider ,and very much interested in texting and cell phone use as a matter of public health.  Texting addiction is becoming a serious problem.  Many teenagers are texting in excess of 10,000 per month, and they are sleep deprived, because the culture requires rapid response.   Ask any teacher about this problem, ask any employer.  It has become a real policing problem.  Texting and internet addiction is ruining lives, familes, and careers.  The effect that texting has on the brain is NO different than any other addiction.  It is an addiction, make no bones about it.  I recently heard about one study that brain scans were taken of teenagers who were addicted to texting, their brain wave patterns and pictures of their brains resembled alcoholics.  This "cancer" has infiltrated every aspect of our existence.   Restaurants, churches, sporting events, concerts,  seems so many folks  texting or staring into a laptop..  I saw something  last week that really took the cake.  My  wife and I were at an expensive steakhouse, enjoying a wonderful night out.  The table next to us,  both parents had laptops, the two kids had laptops, it was a pathetic sight.  Another interesting anecdote, I know someone who tells me that her kids will not answer her in the house anymore.  If she wants the kids to come down for dinner, she has to text them.  She has been so emotionally stricken by this, yet feels powerless, because when she tries to curtail the cell phone use she gets temper tantrums and the kids become antisocial and don't want to do their chores around the house.   We have lost the ability to enjoy the moment , to savor the wonderful things in life, to enjoy the company of others without constant interruption.  

I have a friend who is a retiree and he works as a ranger at a local country club. He tells me that all day long he has to tell people to keep moving on the course.  People are texting on the greens, on the tee boxes, and while addressing shots on the fairways.  And he tells me that he sees maintenance staff pulled over and hiding in the bushes and restooms, texting instead of working.  I wonder how many employers are losing major productivity with this issue.

My phone comes with me on the  golf course because the unexpected can happen.  But it stays off, and after many years I have not lost a friend, a business associate, or had anyone angry at me about it.   And I don't  play with people who text or use their cell phones continually while playing.  Maybe that gives me a smaller circle of potential playing partners than many, but I am interested in the quality of my golfing experience,  not how many I can find to play with.  I am frankly amazed, no shocked, at how many golfers are texting while practicing on the driving range, putting area, and even in the sand practice area.  I watch some folks literally checking their cell phones every 3 or 4 practice swings, is this healthy?  No it is not, it is a sickness.   My favorite cell phone related story on the golf course is last spring, one of the local high school teams was practicing at my club.  The coach dropped off half the girls at the driving range, and went to the putting area with the rest of the girls.  As soon as the coach left, all the cell phones came out.  She came back, saw no one was practcing, let the girls have it.  As soon as she left, the cell phones came out again.  These girls were clearly more interested than their cell phones than practicing.  The third time the coach came, she called it a day.  She was disgusted, I could see it.  Wonder if she is still coaching.

I am researching this topic extensively, and am seriously thinking about submitting a paper for publication.  And I am aware that support groups are starting for those texting addicted,  that is something I might want to volunteer some of my time with.  Cell phones have their place, of course they do.  That is not the issue.  The issue is when you become so focused on texting and being socially connected that it consumes an inordinate amount of your time and you loose the ability to enjoy life and connect with people in the flesh.  When you experience anxiety about being unable to text, or have this need to constantly feel the cell phone in your hand and constantly check for messages, something is very wrong.  And it has become a major safety issue, how many accidents are related to not paying attention to what you were doing, because you were more consumed with the cell phone.  Lives are being lost, and every one of us could be the victum of one of these addicts.     Ever see the movie, The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.  Well, it has happened, look all around you.

This is a problem of epic proportion, yet amazing how many shake it off or live in denial.  Denial is a very powerful way of dealing with things.  Just pretend a problem does not exist, or the problem is just trivial or could be much worse, and thus you don't have to deal with it.  How many  have lost their family to this, or they have lost themselves to it.  Or just given up in frustration feeling powerless  in seeing others get consumed with all this electronic gadgetry.    Ever hear the expression, "Prison Walls do not a Prison make":.  Well, someone who has the compulsive need to carry a cell phone with them everywhere, and check that phone continuously, and has the need to respond to the nost mundane of texts immediately, or suffer anxiety, is someone who is a prisoner.  It is a virtual prison.  Take a good look around you, there are a lot of prisoners out there and how sad.

I enjoy great friendships, great professional relationships, and enjoy my family.   Yet, I seldom text, and spend very little time on the phone.   I will not let an electronic devise enslave me..  It is easy to fall into this trap, just like any addiction.   The problem with this addiction, is the speed which it hooks the victum.  And you cannot see the injury, like you can with an alcoholic, or a heroin addict.  So by the time you see harm, the addiction is real entrenched.    The injury is psychic, and a rewiring of your entire nervous system. Do the research,  excessive texting causes chemical shifts in the body  I would encourage anyone who has even the most remote interest in this area to read this link.  Excessive texting is not benign, it alters your chemstry  Here is the link :  http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/brain-wise/201209/why-were-all-addicted-texts-twitter-and-google  Here is another link, if this does not make you rethink texting you are lost:   http://www.harley.com/island-syndrome/28-technology-and-the-biology-of-excessive-text-messaging.html  Bottom line,
excessive texting is not healthy.  I think many parents think this behavior is cute or harmless, it is not.   Because the device has a very strong potential to addict you.   Do you think that the innovators of these devices are not aware of this?  Of course they are, they are laughing all the way to the bank.  Do you know how many billions are being made with all this?     Buy one of these devices for your children, and don't monitor it, see where they are in a few months.  They will be hooked.   You are giving them dynamite, it is that dangerous, it just looks benign.   Sorry for the OT, yes this is a golf forum, but this is also a very serious health issue, that most have seemed perfectly ok to ignore.

This all comes back to the question at hand, about public golf in a downward spiral.  Yes, because of our infatuation and addiction to electronic devices, we will see less golfers.   Of course, this is not the only reason for the decline of golf, it is multifacotrial, but an important demographic and sociological shift that will profounly affect golf and  all aspects of our lives,  including interpersonal relationships, our education system, our places of work, and the ability of this nation to be a leader or even survive in a dynamic and highly competitve world market.

[Dan Herrmann]

Eric,
I really don't think that we'll see less golfers because of iPhones and Facebook (to pick a random platform and app).

If there is a downward trend, it's because people have less money to play.  My family's income is down 40% since just prior to the "great recession", and I doubt we'll ever be at that same level again.  And I know my experience is far from uncommon.  Laura's been unemployed for > 3 years now (nobody hires executive assistants anymore), and I was laid off at the end of December, 2012.  Fortunately, I found a better job very quickly, but that's not normal these days.  Companies just aren't hiring.

Simply said - no money = no golf.

But that's where munis come into play very nicely.  My munis growing up were run by the Town of Tonawanda, NY.  Two courses, one was probably a Doak 0 (Brighton), the other a 3.5 (Sheridan).  But I didn't care - it was fun, affordable golf.  Last year's season pass that gave full access to both courses was $455 for a town resident.

We need more basic golf like that.

Dave McCollum ==>  +1!
Trust me, I'd love to get to Canyon Springs, but it's a long way from Philly

[Eric Strulowitz]

Eric,
I really don't think that we'll see less golfers because of iPhones and Facebook (to pick a random platform and app).

If there is a downward trend, it's because people have less money to play.  My family's income is down 40% since just prior to the "great recession", and I doubt we'll ever be at that same level again.  And I know my experience is far from uncommon.  Laura's been unemployed for > 3 years now (nobody hires executive assistants anymore), and I was laid off at the end of December, 2012.  Fortunately, I found a better job very quickly, but that's not normal these days.  Companies just aren't hiring.

Simply said - no money = no golf.

But that's where munis come into play very nicely.  My munis growing up were run by the Town of Tonawanda, NY.  Two courses, one was probably a Doak 0 (Brighton), the other a 3.5 (Sheridan).  But I didn't care - it was fun, affordable golf.  Last year's season pass that gave full access to both courses was $455 for a town resident.

We need more basic golf like that.

Dave McCollum ==>  +1!
Trust me, I'd love to get to Canyon Springs, but it's a long way from Philly

[RJ_Daley]

Eric Strulowitz, while I think Dan Hermann makes a fair point about electronic addictions not being the sole, and at this time maybe not the major cause of decline of public golf, the insidious nature of the electronic addiction subject has more widespread aspects that effect the younger market with the distractions and inability to focus on something that takes hours to enjoy, as well as oblique destructive effects that are the result of associated activities that creep into golf as well. 

It is like humans are being recruited and turned into one big always connected, thus easier to control, "Borg" like apparatus.  I agree with you that the implications are devastating on the future growth of the human mind and its capacity to function with contemplative complexity to challenges to our survival.

Thanks for interesting links to various articles of interest. 

[Eric Strulowitz]

Eric Strulowitz, while I think Dan Hermann makes a fair point about electronic addictions not being the sole, and at this time maybe not the major cause of decline of public golf, the insidious nature of the electronic addiction subject has more widespread aspects that effect the younger market with the distractions and inability to focus on something that takes hours to enjoy, as well as oblique destructive effects that are the result of associated activities that creep into golf as well. 

It is like humans are being recruited and turned into one big always connected, thus easier to control, "Borg" like apparatus.  I agree with you that the implications are devastating on the future growth of the human mind and its capacity to function with contemplative complexity to challenges to our survival.

Thanks for interesting links to various articles of interest. 

Hi RJ

Wow, that is all I can say after reading your post.  It took my breath away.  The idea that humans are being recruited as you say, my God.  There are some that would say this is crazy, paranoid talk.  I say not, it is amazingly inisightful and bold.  Those that sell and market these devices no exactly what they are all about.  Prudent use of electronics is wonderful.  No one argues the utility of prudent use.  There are very legitimate uses for cell phones and texting.    However, prudent use for many quickly degenerates to excess.  The whole thing is a setup, to get you hooked. 

For some reason, I have been totally immune from this phenomenon, I just have no interest in it. I love people. love socializing, love going out, just don't have the need to be connected all the time.   I know a few in the same boat, they love to chat in person, socialize, and attend functions in life without the constant interruption by  electronic devices and the need to respond immediately to what is mostly mundane irrelevant crap.  The hours upon hours this could consume, I would rather be working out at the gym, enjoying my family, working extra, volunteering in the community,  or doing something productive, there is nothing productive in the long run that comes out of this except  feeding a terrible addiction.  The more you do it, the stronger the craving gets.  It is an endless loop.  It has a biochemical basis, the body physically craves incoming messages and must respond, or anxiety results.   A response keeps the loop going.  For many, it goes on 24/7, and the network gets bigger and bigger, goodness just talking about this is frightening!    I frequently grieve the fact that I have family members that have been lost to this.  I have good friends that have been lost to this.  They have no idea, and any attempt to make them aware of this problem just brings about denial and  hostility, so I have learned to keep my mouth shut.  It is so widespread, it is the norm. After all, everyone is doing it now.  Those of us that think there is something wrong with someone doing hundreds of texts a day, we are the ones with the problem now.   It is painful to see people who cannot eat, enjoy a tv  show, go to a sporting event, or do practically anything without being interrupted continually by phone calls and texts.  Continually having that machine in their hands and frequently checking for incoming messages.    I have seen folks have out and out panic attacks because they could not find their phones or they were in a setting where they had to turn it off.    I know of folks that text while driving, I fear for their safety and I have been in several close wrecks by people not paying attention because of electronic devices. 

Nothing good will come of this in the long run.   Do parents know what they are doing when they bring one of these home for their children with an unlimited plan.  A lot of it is ignorance, and sadlly, a lot of adults are hooked themselves, they are just sowing more seeds.  They cannot stop it, soon others will not be able to stop it.  The more that do it, the less bizarre it all seems, and this is very very bizarre.  God help us all.  Sorry for the OT, this is a very depressing subject.  Stick to golf from now on!

[Joe_Tucholski]

For some reason, I have been totally immune from this phenomenon, I just have no interest in it. I love people. love socializing, love going out, just don't have the need to be connected all the time.   I know a few in the same boat, they love to chat in person, socialize, and attend functions in life without the constant interruption by  electronic devices and the need to respond immediately to what is mostly mundane irrelevant crap.  The hours upon hours this could consume, I would rather be working out at the gym, enjoying my family, working extra, volunteering in the community,  or doing something productive, there is nothing productive in the long run that comes out of this except  feeding a terrible addiction.  The more you do it, the stronger the craving gets.  It is an endless loop.  It has a biochemical basis, the body physically craves incoming messages and must respond, or anxiety results.   A response keeps the loop going.  For many, it goes on 24/7, and the network gets bigger and bigger, goodness just talking about this is frightening!    I frequently grieve the fact that I have family members that have been lost to this.  I have good friends that have been lost to this.  They have no idea, and any attempt to make them aware of this problem just brings about denial and  hostility, so I have learned to keep my mouth shut.  It is so widespread, it is the norm. After all, everyone is doing it now.  Those of us that think there is something wrong with someone doing hundreds of texts a day, we are the ones with the problem now.   It is painful to see people who cannot eat, enjoy a tv  show, go to a sporting event, or do practically anything without being interrupted continually by phone calls and texts.  Continually having that machine in their hands and frequently checking for incoming messages.    I have seen folks have out and out panic attacks because they could not find their phones or they were in a setting where they had to turn it off.    I know of folks that text while driving, I fear for their safety and I have been in several close wrecks by people not paying attention because of electronic devices. 

Says the guy posting on an online forum.   

To answer the question I'll provide my personal experience.  In a class of 100 future dentists I'm the only golfer.  3-4 play more than once a year and 2-3 are starting to occasionally play at a par-3.  I thought all dentists played golf.

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