True Blue & Caledonia

[Eric Smith]

My Goodness, True Blue is a hoot! If only the green contours matched the rest of it. I understand that in the beginning they did but were softened to accommodate the frenzy of public players that once (still?) flocked here. I can't tell you how much I enjoyed our 27 holes here today. A visually stimulating design affording those golfers like yours truly who needs a bit of room off the tee a chance to play golf with the rest of you. More later.

Edited to expand the conversation to include Caledonia as well.

[A.G._Crockett]

Eric,
Very glad to hear this.  I just love True Blue; it is just a lot of fun.  I do think that it is critical that players choose the correct tees, which probably means at least the third set, but it is just a magnificent golf course.

Said it here many times, but the 36 hole day of True Blue and Caledonia, completely different, across the street from one another, and done by the same guy, is as good a study of GCA as anything I've ever seen.  Strantz was truly an artist.

[RJ_Daley]

Hoping all the gang have a great time.  I know it was a blast at the last Tour d'Strantz a few years ago.  McBride was soooo young and shy then. And when the killer bumble bee lady beat Jay Flemma on the par three all water carry hole was a hoot.  You can't go wrong if Whitiker is involved.   

[Will Lozier]

Eric, A.G., RJ,

Can any of you compare True Blue and Caledonia to Tobacco Road, Tot Hill, or Royal New Kent.  I've played the latter three and really enjoyed them all (with TR & RNK my favorites) but have never gotten to True Blue or Caledonia.  I've walked RNK at least twice and it is not really made for walking.  TR is probably no different.  Nevertheless, both are made up of mostly thrilling golf holes.

Cheers

[A.G._Crockett]

Eric, A.G., RJ,

Can any of you compare True Blue and Caledonia to Tobacco Road, Tot Hill, or Royal New Kent.  I've played the latter three and really enjoyed them all (with TR & RNK my favorites) but have never gotten to True Blue or Caledonia.  I've walked RNK at least twice and it is not really made for walking.  TR is probably no different.  Nevertheless, both are made up of mostly thrilling golf holes.

Cheers

A short, easy answer to this is that True Blue is kind of Tobacco Road at the beach.  The greens at TB aren't as crazy as the Road, but it is the same flavor; tee shots that look harder than they really are, greens that are pretty easy to hit but you're hosed if you don't, wild bunkering and waste areas everywhere.  And reactions by golfers that tend to be love it or hate it.

There is no easy comparison of Caledonia and True Blue; if you didn't know that the same guy had built both courses, IMO nobody would guess it in a million years. 

I haven't played Royal New Kent, but if pressed to compare True Blue to either Caledonia or Tot Hill, it would clearly be Tot Hill.  But that's a tortured comparison; the land is just so completely different.  the only similarity, really, is that Tot Hill is another Strantz course that relies on visual intimidation as you stand on the tee.  Like the Road, True Blue and Tot Hill give you very generous landing areas IF you can commit to the shot and execute reasonably.  It's all about the look from the tee and then handling the roller coaster greens.

Tot Hill gets clobbered here a lot, but I think unfairly.  It may be the best course relative to the piece of land it's on I've ever seen. 

[Ronald Montesano]

True Blue, Tot Hill and Tobacco Road, in addition to sharing the first initial, possess the shortish par three with the green set low and tees encircled around the rim. At TB, it is #14 at TH, #3 and it's #6 at TR. It's slightly in evidence at #3 at RNK but not at Stonehouse.

It reminded me of a cauldron, with shots dropping in from the rim. It's not a template by a stretch; more of an evocation.

I've had a single playing of those five Strantz courses, so it's a chore for me to recall particulars. TB, RNK, ST share the heroic finishing hole notion (almost RTJ-ish) wherein the tee shot, approach or both must carry an enormous and penal hazard to reach the promised land. Oh, right, TR does that, too. I guess Strantz had a way of reminding us that, in the end, he was the boss.

[Tom_Doak]

There is no easy comparison of Caledonia and True Blue; if you didn't know that the same guy had built both courses, IMO nobody would guess it in a million years. 

Seriously?

Just because they are built at different SCALES does not make the STYLE impossible to discern.  I would know a Mike Strantz course in a blindfold test, probably even before you took the blindfold off!

[Ronald Montesano]

SHENANIGANS, Mr. Doak.

If you're blindfolded, I ask you this...Does a Strantz course smell differently?

[Tim Gavrich]

SHENANIGANS, Mr. Doak.

If you're blindfolded, I ask you this...Does a Strantz course smell differently?

In springtime, you would be hard-pressed to find a better-smelling golf course than Caledonia Golf & Fish Club that is not named Augusta National Golf Club.

I find there to be a great deal of visual similarity between Caledonia and True Blue and all other Strantz courses, for that matter. Of all modern architects, I would say the only architect whose courses are more readily identifiable than Strant'z are Pete Dye's.

[A.G._Crockett]

There is no easy comparison of Caledonia and True Blue; if you didn't know that the same guy had built both courses, IMO nobody would guess it in a million years. 

Seriously?

Just because they are built at different SCALES does not make the STYLE impossible to discern.  I would know a Mike Strantz course in a blindfold test, probably even before you took the blindfold off!

Tom,
I suppose it is barely possible that you have a better eye for the STYLE of a particular architect than the average person, which I certainly consider myself to be.  I may, in fact, be well below average.  But congratulations to you for being able to identify golf courses blindfolded.

That said, I see multiple similarities between Tobacco Road, True Blue, and Tot Hill.  I don't see many similarities between those three and Caledonia, and I wasn't referring to the scale. 

[Tommy Williamsen]

There is no easy comparison of Caledonia and True Blue; if you didn't know that the same guy had built both courses, IMO nobody would guess it in a million years. 

Seriously?

Just because they are built at different SCALES does not make the STYLE impossible to discern.  I would know a Mike Strantz course in a blindfold test, probably even before you took the blindfold off!

Tom, I find that comment very interesting.  Caledonia and True Blue feel very different to me, even out side the scale.  Imthought the greens at Caledonia were more undulating and of course the bunkering between the two are very different.  What style do you find the same.

On a different note, I was there this Sept and found the homes around True Blue invasive.  I had not played it since the year it opened.  The difference was astonishing and marred the experience for me.

[Keith OHalloran]

Seriously?

Just because they are built at different SCALES does not make the STYLE impossible to discern.  I would know a Mike Strantz course in a blindfold test, probably even before you took the blindfold off!
[/quote]

Tom, are there any architects that altered their style so much that you could not tell who did the course by looking at it? Not the colloquial you.

[Eric Smith]

I agree with Tom, having played them both for the first time this weekend, that there is a discernible artistry to both courses that would cause me to believe they were designed by the same person. I really loved them both by the way.

Let's have some fun looking at a few photos of the two.

Which is which?

[Brad Tufts]

I'll bite, having not seen either...

CD/TB/CD/CD/TB/TB/TB

And no surprise that Whitaker looks more happy in a cool-looking waste bunker than in the fairway.

[Michael Whitaker]

]On a different note, I was there this Sept and found the homes around True Blue invasive.  I had not played it since the year it opened.  The difference was astonishing and marred the experience for me.

Tommy - I'm astonished by this comment! There are only three holes that have condos (no homes)... 4, 16 & 17... and, on 4 & 16 they are separated from the course by a sizeable pond. The condos on 17 are adequately set back from the fairway and are not in the golfer's direct line of vision to the green.

True Blue is a holiday course. I've never found the few condos on the course an issue in any way.

[A.G._Crockett]

Mike W.,
You have a place at Pawley's and I'm guessing that you have played an unusually large number of rounds at both TB and Caledonia.  I base that guess in part on the fact that the day we played Caledonia you and the person working the pro shop called each other by first names.  That is at least a little bit unusual at that course, I think.

Mr. Doak, meanwhile, seems well on his way to making a career of designing golf courses, and seems to know quite a bit about the subject.

So I think the two of you might be somewhat atypical, even for this board, in judging the extent to which the two courses are similar as opposed to different.

I would still maintain that for the vast majority of even GCA'ers, they would simply not guess that the same person designed those two courses. 

[Eric Smith]

I'll bite, having not seen either...

CD/TB/CD/CD/TB/TB/TB

Brad, you guessed 5 of 7 correctly. Anyone else?


AG,

I'm 25 years late to the party, but sign me up for the Mike Strantz Fan Club. I can't believe how different these two courses are compared to most everything else I've played in SC. I understand your point about the two courses being different from one another, but at the same time the artistry in the feature shaping is where I can't help but notice the similarities. The cool thing is I couldn't pick a favorite of the two and I am somewhat surprised by this. I hadn't heard near as many accolades for True Blue as I have for Caledonia.  

Lastly, the $219 stay and play we did (thank you Mike Whitaker!) has to be the best value going in golf. Just flat out ridiculous.

[RJ_Daley]

C,T,T,C,C,T,T   ?

[Eric Smith]

C,T,T,C,C,T,T   ?

5 of 7, Dick!

[Matt Kardash]

T,T,C,C,C,T,T

[Mike_Trenham]

Is Caledonia the best Modern Course without a full length practice area?  Don't give me the True Blue range answer because that came later.  It took guts to build that place without a range.  It is really good with a very good mix of short and long par fours.

[Joe Bausch]

T,T,C,C,T,C,C

[Eric Smith]

T,T,C,C,C,T,T

7/7. Nice job, Matt.

[Mike Sweeney]

My Goodness, True Blue is a hoot!

Finally played True Blue today, and Eric and Mike Whitaker are on the money. Just fun heroic golf shots that look hard and play easier.

#1 green



#10 tee



50 degrees, no wind, and sunshine led to us to peeling layers off. Happy New Year

[Wade Whitehead]

I'll begin with: Mike Strantz was a genius.

To me, Caledonia stands out as different from his other designs.  It's more subtle.  Feels older.  Gives a nod to the status quo without ever betraying his architectural priorities.

Still, it's unmistakably Strantz.

Wish he'd been given more time.

WW