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Patrick_Mucci

Re: I think I could make MacKenzie, Tillinghast and others better architects
« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2013, 07:41:39 PM »
The gist of the thread was that the ODG's might have been more creative and more productive without having to wear so many hats, hats that caused them to devote less time to the creative and construction end of the business.

And, that being more efficient in their operation, they might have produced more courses.

The division of labor remains an important component in efficiency in any organization.

Patrick,

If you had the slightest artistic bone in your body, you would realise what utter nonsense those sentiments are. 

Never claimed to being an "artiste", but, the division of labor produces efficiency, in nature and in man.


You can't turn on inspiration on a whim.

That's absolutely untrue.
Just ask the artists who create music for films.
Talent on demand.


Stick with being a capitalistic expoliter, it's clearly what you are good at.  ;D

Ah yes, those evil entepreneurs who risk their capital with no guarantee of return, who create jobs and contribute to society, vis a vis taxes, charity and community service.  Those guys are real exploiters all right.


Patrick_Mucci

Re: I think I could make MacKenzie, Tillinghast and others better architects
« Reply #26 on: February 01, 2013, 07:48:19 PM »
Or maybe just have them live at at time where the great depression wouldn't interrupt their work.

Maybe the best point made here.  However, if we send Pat back to late summer of 1929, he can somehow prevent said economic catastrophe and save these poor guys from eminent failure to live up to their potential, architecturally, personally, and financially!  All we need to do is find a Delorean!

The above post is proof positive that the quality of the posts and those posting continues to deteriorate.


Come on Patrick. When you insult people by indicating the quality of their posts and themselves deteriorate over some hypothetical standard you imagine, you degrade the website with your disdain and your willingness to essentially name call.

Insulting morons comes easy, very little work involved. ;D

Should I veil my disdain, pretending that so many inane and moronic words weren't typed.

Nah, it's much easier to call a spade a spade rather than take the circuitous route.


Rise above it dude!

Unfortunately, JakaB made an errant leap, misdirecting the focus by equating inate talent with wealth or the lack of it.
And, like sheep, the morons followed ;D



Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: I think I could make MacKenzie, Tillinghast and others better architects
« Reply #27 on: February 01, 2013, 07:57:58 PM »

The above post is proof positive that the quality of the posts and those posting continues to deteriorate.

You must be very proud of your contribution to that trend.

I try to do my part but realize that my efforts pale in comparison to yours.

Speaking of contributions, I noticed that neither you, Will, GJ and William Grieve haven't contributed a penny toward helping to support this site.

I guess talk is really cheap where you're concerned.


You lie.

Patrick, you can't believe everything you read on the internet.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2013, 08:21:49 PM by GJ Bailey »
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Patrick_Mucci

Re: I think I could make MacKenzie, Tillinghast and others better architects
« Reply #28 on: February 01, 2013, 08:26:19 PM »

The above post is proof positive that the quality of the posts and those posting continues to deteriorate.

You must be very proud of your contribution to that trend.

I try to do my part but realize that my efforts pale in comparison to yours.

Speaking of contributions, I noticed that neither you, Will, GJ and William Grieve haven't contributed a penny toward helping to support this site.

I guess talk is really cheap where you're concerned.


You lie.

No, I don't.

I looked under the contribution section and didn't see your name, Will Lozier's name, William Grieve's name or Mark Pearce's name.
But, maybe my eyesight is failing me.
So, here's the list.
Do you see any of the names I cited ?


The following have contributed to the 2013 running of GolfClubAtlas.com:
Name Region
 Joe Andriole (6)  Orlando, FL, USA
 Sean Arble (13)   UNITED KINGDOM
 Powell Arms (3)  Narberth, PA, USA
 George Bahto (10)  Pine Brook, NJ, USA
 Ken Banks (6)  Macon, GA, USA
 Yancey Beamer (11)  Tustin, CA, USA
 Joseph Bearer (1)  Bethesda, MD, USA
 Jonathan Becker (5)  Wooster, OH, USA
 Mike Benham (6)   San Mateo, CA, USA
 John Tiger Bernhardt (6)  Lafayette, LA, USA
 Matt Bosela (4)  St. Catharines, Ontario, CANADA
 Mark Bourgeois (6)  Washington D.C., USA
 Aidan Bradley (6)  Santa Barbara, CA, USA www.golfcoursephotography.com
 Bart Bradley (6)   Bristol, TN, USA
 Bill Brightly (6)  Rochelle Park, NJ, USA
 Scott Burroughs (10)  Wake Forest, NC, USA
 Paul Carey (6)  Sandy Spring, MD, USA
 Robert Chwalik (1)  New York, NY, USA
 Mike Cirba (7)  Lehighton, PA, USA
 Greg Clark (4)  Frisco, TX, USA
 Adam Clayman (8)  Ogallala, NE, USA
 Jason Connor (1)  Orlando, FL, USA
 William Crane (2)  Princeton, NJ, USA
 Jonathon Cummings (8)  Cabin John, MD, USA
 Chris Cupit (6)  Alpharetta, GA, USA
 Dick Daley (9)  Green Bay, WI, USA
 Cameron De Vries (1)  Santa Barbara, CA, USA
 Dean DiBerardino (3)  Steubensville, OH, USA
 Don Dinkmeyer (11)  Bowling Green, KY, USA
 Craig Disher (9)  Washington D.C., USA (in memory of Jim Goby)
 Keith Doleshel (1)  San Jose, CA, USA
 Kevin Dreyer (1)  New York, NY, USA
 Tom Dunne (4)  Mamaroneck, NY, USA
 Luis Duran (5)  Frisco, TX, USA
 Henry Eaton (8)  Toronto, ON, CANADA
 Craig Edgmand (8)  Stillwater, OK, USA
 David Elvins (5)  Fitzroy North, Victoria, AUSTRALIA
 Alfonso Erhardt (5)  Madrid, SPAIN
 Joe Fairey (7)  St. Matthews, SC, USA
 Brad Fleischer (5)  Staten Island, NY, USA
 Evan Fleisher (8)  Strongsville, OH, USA
 John Foley (8)  Victor, NY, USA
 David Friedman (5)  Boynton Beach, FL, USA
 Kenneth Fry (4)  Niles, MI, USA
 Michael George (2)  Akron, OH, USA
 Gregory Gilson (1)  Cape Schanck, Victoria, AUSTRALIA
 Frank Giordano (1)  Pinehurst, NC, USA
 Jim Gold (5)  New York, NY, USA
 Anthony Gray (8)  Cleveland, TN, USA
 Gene Greco (11)  Southampton, NY, USA
 Mike Hamilton (4)  Midlothian, VA, USA
 Ross Harmon (1)  Denver, CO, USA
 Kyle Henderson (2)  San Ramon, CA, USA
 Peter Herreid (6)  Bellevue, WA, USA
 Dan Herrmann (5)  Chester Springs, PA, USA
 Mathew Hickey (5)  Newport, RI, USA
 Jason Hines (8)  Olathe, KS, USA
 James Hoak (1)  Dallas, TX, USA
 Greg Hohman (2)  San Diego, CA, USA www.newmonumentsgc.com
 Greg Holland (6)  Greensboro, NC, USA
 Rick Holland (7)  Chicago, IL, USA
 Stephen Hodulik (4)  Rye, NY, USA (in memory of Don Wolff)
 Brian Hoover (1)  Westerville, OH, USA
 Domingo Hospital (3)  Barcelona, SPAIN
 Tom Huckaby (8)  San Jose, CA, USA
 Hart Huffines (6)  Raleigh, NC, USA
 Chris Hufnagel (1)  Ada, MI, USA
 Bob Huntley (8)  Carmel, CA, USA
 Dale Jackson (4)  Victoria, BC, CANADA
 Bob Jenkins (6)  Vancouver, BC, CANADA
 Chris Johnston (2)  Mullen, NE, USA www.dismalriver.com
 Paul Jones (5)  Lafayette, LA, USA
 Sev K-H Keil (2)  New York, NY, USA
 John Kirk (9)  North Plains, OR, USA
 Jerry Kluger (13)  Bethesda, MD, USA
 Gregory Koebel (1)   Saipan, United States Commonwealth of NORTHERN MARIANA ISLANDS
 Greg Krueger (1)  Wendell, NC, USA
 Ian Lagowitz (3)  Caldwell, NJ, USA
 Sheila Lang (3)  The Woodlands, TX, USA
 Steven Lapper (8)  Far Hills, NJ, USA
 Pete Lavallee (9)  San Diego, CA, USA
 Terry Lavin (13)  Chicago, IL, USA
 Sean Leary (5)  Seattle, WA, USA
 Jim Lewis (6)  Pinehurst, NC, USA
 Tim Liddy (2)  Yorktown, IN, USA www.timliddy.com
 Mark Luckhardt (2)  Kincardine, Ontario, CANADA
 Kevin Lynch (3)  East Aurora, NY, USA
 David Maberry (6)  Quarryville, PA, USA
 James MacIver (5)  Charlotte, NC, USA
 MacKenzie Golf Bags (6)  Portland, OR, USA www.mackenziegolfbags.com
 David Madison (6)  Chapel Hill, NC, USA
 Jonathan Mallard (1)  Richmond, VA, USA
 Mayday Malone (7)   Wallingford, PA, USA 
 Robert Marshall (1)  Linwood, NJ, USA
 Timothy Martin (2)  West Hartford, CT, USA
 Tom Maxwell (2)  Bridport, VT, USA
 John Mayhugh (5)  Louisville, KY, USA
 Bill McBride (10)  Pensacola, FL, USA
 Jim McCann (5)  Glasgow, UNITED KINGDOM www.top100golfcourses.co.uk 
 John McCarthy (1)  Chicago, IL, USA
 John McCrory (1)  Raleigh, NC, USA
 Christoph Meister (2)  Hamburg, GERMANY
 Alex Miller (1)  Rancho Palos Verdes, CA, USA
 Jack Monckton (1)  Winnetka, IL, USA
 Ronald Montesano (4)  Grand Island, NY, USA www.BuffaloGolfer.com
 Kelly Blake Moran (7)  Blandon, PA, USA www.kellyblakemoran.com
 J.P. Morgan (6)  Newburgh, IN, USA
 Brett Morrissy (6)  Curlewis, Victoria, AUSTRALIA
 Michael Moss (1)  White Plains, NY, USA
 Andy Moye (1)  Maury, NC, USA
 Pat Mucci (30)  Clifton, NJ, USA
 Tony Muldoon (7)  London, UNITED KINGDOM
 Peter Nicholson (11)  Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
 James Nugent (6)  Ladue, MO, USA
 Mike Nuzzo (12)   Houston, TX, USA www.mnuzzo.com
 Lawrence Oberman (5)  Glenview, IL, USA
 Donal O’Ceallaigh (3)  Balsta, SWEDEN
 Ed Oden (5)  Charlotte, NC, USA
 Matthew Petersen (1)  Phoenix, AZ, USA
 Brian Phillips (6)  Moss, NORWAY www.niblickgolfdesign.com
 Peter Pittock (11)  Portland, OR, USA
 Mike Policano (6)  Paramus, NJ, USA
 Ryan Potts (4)  Glen Ellyn, IL, USA
 Mark Provenzano (1)  Gilroy, CA, USA
 Samuel Ramage (1)  Indianapolis, IN, USA
 Neil Regan (15)  Bronxville, NY, USA
 Kevin Reilly (6)  Lafayette, CA, USA
 Howard Riefs (2)  Winnetka, IL, USA
 Rob Rigg (5)  Scottsdale, AZ, USA www.thewalkinggolfer.com
 Chip Royce (4)  Cary, NC, USA
 David Royer (2)  Dublin, OH, USA
 Adam Russell (1)  Lynbrook, NY, USA
 Michael Ryan (1)  Fairfield, CT, USA
 Matthew Sander (1)  Winfield, IL, USA
 Scott Sander (2)  Carmel, IN, USA
 Stephen Sayre (3)  Chevy Chase, MD, USA
 Eric Schaefer (1)  St. Louis, MO, USA
 Michael Schott (1)  Franklin Hills, MI, USA
 Bill Schulz (19)  Scottsdale, AZ, USA
 Lynn Shackelford (10)  Spicewood, TX, USA
 Richard Shefchik (1)  Stillwater, MN, USA
 James Sherma (1)  Hershey, PA, USA
 John Shimp (1)  Charlotte, NC, USA
 Andrew Shulman (4)  Reston, VA, USA
 Dennis Slattery (4)  San Marino, CA, USA
 Kenneth Slonis (6)  Sewell, NJ, USA
 Eric Smith (7)  Cookeville, TN, USA
 Scott Smith (4)  Wake Forest, NC, USA
 Steven Smith (1)  Troy, MI, USA
 Mark Smolens (8)  Chicago, IL, USA
 Jonathan Spaulding (7)  Laguna Niguel, CA, USA
 Kris Spence (2)  Greensboro, NC, USA www.krisspence.com
 Joe Stansell (1)  Redmond, WA, USA
 Paul Staples (6)  New York, NY, USA
 Vanesha Steffey (1)  Leominster, MA, USA
 John Stiles (8)  Knoxville, TN, USA
 Mark Studer (8)  Pittsburgh, PA, USA (in memory of Don Wolff)
 Mike Sweeney (11)  New York, NY, USA
 Josh Tarble (1)  Indianapolis, IN, USA
 Dan Taylor (7)  Baltimore, MD, USA
 David Tepper (8)  San Francisco, CA, USA
 Eric Terhorst (3)  Wilmette, IL, USA
 Jason Tetterton (6)  Greenville, NC, USA
 Paul Thomas (6)  Oak Lawn, IL, USA
 Jud Tigerman (3)  Glencoe, IL, USA
 Martin Toal (2)  Barkham, Berkshire, UNITED KINGDOM
 Jason Topp (9)  Eden Prairie, MN, USA
 John Vander Borght (8)  Pacific Grove, CA, USA
 William Walker (6)  Haddonfield, NJ, USA
 Clifford Walston (1)  Houston, TX, USA
 Jeff Warne (9)  Sag Harbor, NY, USA
 Michael Whitaker (7)  Greenville, SC, USA (in memory of Jim Goby)
 Jon Wiggett (1)  Conon Bridge, Highland, UNITED KINGDOM
 Cristian Willaert (4)  Amsterdam, NETHERLANDS
 Robert Williams (1)  Wilton, CT, USA
 Buck Wolter (6)  Edwardsville, IL, USA
 Scott Wood (11)  Chatham, NY, USA
 Doug Wright (11)  Denver, CO, USA
 Joel Zuckerman (3)  Savannah, GA, USA

Patrick, you can't believe everything you read on the internet.

Do you think that Ran would deliberatly mislead people ?



William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: I think I could make MacKenzie, Tillinghast and others better architects
« Reply #29 on: February 01, 2013, 09:01:39 PM »
29998 and counting...over 30000 tonight! congrats
It's all about the golf!

V. Kmetz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: I think I could make MacKenzie, Tillinghast and others better architects
« Reply #30 on: February 01, 2013, 09:07:39 PM »
PM,

Were there specific architects that you were thinking of, who -- relieved of addressing practical bureaucracy -- would've produced more or better product?

I guess i'm saying, I don't think we got short-changed by many of the ODGs except Raynor.

cheers

vk
"The tee shot must first be hit straight and long between a vast bunker on the left which whispers 'slice' in the player's ear, and a wilderness on the right which induces a hurried hook." -

William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: I think I could make MacKenzie, Tillinghast and others better architects
« Reply #31 on: February 02, 2013, 12:26:36 AM »

The above post is proof positive that the quality of the posts and those posting continues to deteriorate.

You must be very proud of your contribution to that trend.

I try to do my part but realize that my efforts pale in comparison to yours.

Speaking of contributions, I noticed that neither you, Will, GJ and William Grieve haven't contributed a penny toward helping to support this site.

I guess talk is really cheap where you're concerned.


You lie.

No, I don't.

I looked under the contribution section and didn't see your name, Will Lozier's name, William Grieve's name or Mark Pearce's name.
But, maybe my eyesight is failing me.
So, here's the list.
Do you see any of the names I cited ?


The following have contributed to the 2013 running of GolfClubAtlas.com:
Name Region
 Joe Andriole (6)  Orlando, FL, USA
 Sean Arble (13)   UNITED KINGDOM
 Powell Arms (3)  Narberth, PA, USA
 George Bahto (10)  Pine Brook, NJ, USA
 Ken Banks (6)  Macon, GA, USA
 Yancey Beamer (11)  Tustin, CA, USA
 Joseph Bearer (1)  Bethesda, MD, USA
 Jonathan Becker (5)  Wooster, OH, USA
 Mike Benham (6)   San Mateo, CA, USA
 John Tiger Bernhardt (6)  Lafayette, LA, USA
 Matt Bosela (4)  St. Catharines, Ontario, CANADA
 Mark Bourgeois (6)  Washington D.C., USA
 Aidan Bradley (6)  Santa Barbara, CA, USA www.golfcoursephotography.com
 Bart Bradley (6)   Bristol, TN, USA
 Bill Brightly (6)  Rochelle Park, NJ, USA
 Scott Burroughs (10)  Wake Forest, NC, USA
 Paul Carey (6)  Sandy Spring, MD, USA
 Robert Chwalik (1)  New York, NY, USA
 Mike Cirba (7)  Lehighton, PA, USA
 Greg Clark (4)  Frisco, TX, USA
 Adam Clayman (8)  Ogallala, NE, USA
 Jason Connor (1)  Orlando, FL, USA
 William Crane (2)  Princeton, NJ, USA
 Jonathon Cummings (8)  Cabin John, MD, USA
 Chris Cupit (6)  Alpharetta, GA, USA
 Dick Daley (9)  Green Bay, WI, USA
 Cameron De Vries (1)  Santa Barbara, CA, USA
 Dean DiBerardino (3)  Steubensville, OH, USA
 Don Dinkmeyer (11)  Bowling Green, KY, USA
 Craig Disher (9)  Washington D.C., USA (in memory of Jim Goby)
 Keith Doleshel (1)  San Jose, CA, USA
 Kevin Dreyer (1)  New York, NY, USA
 Tom Dunne (4)  Mamaroneck, NY, USA
 Luis Duran (5)  Frisco, TX, USA
 Henry Eaton (8)  Toronto, ON, CANADA
 Craig Edgmand (8)  Stillwater, OK, USA
 David Elvins (5)  Fitzroy North, Victoria, AUSTRALIA
 Alfonso Erhardt (5)  Madrid, SPAIN
 Joe Fairey (7)  St. Matthews, SC, USA
 Brad Fleischer (5)  Staten Island, NY, USA
 Evan Fleisher (8)  Strongsville, OH, USA
 John Foley (8)  Victor, NY, USA
 David Friedman (5)  Boynton Beach, FL, USA
 Kenneth Fry (4)  Niles, MI, USA
 Michael George (2)  Akron, OH, USA
 Gregory Gilson (1)  Cape Schanck, Victoria, AUSTRALIA
 Frank Giordano (1)  Pinehurst, NC, USA
 Jim Gold (5)  New York, NY, USA
 Anthony Gray (8)  Cleveland, TN, USA
 Gene Greco (11)  Southampton, NY, USA
 Mike Hamilton (4)  Midlothian, VA, USA
 Ross Harmon (1)  Denver, CO, USA
 Kyle Henderson (2)  San Ramon, CA, USA
 Peter Herreid (6)  Bellevue, WA, USA
 Dan Herrmann (5)  Chester Springs, PA, USA
 Mathew Hickey (5)  Newport, RI, USA
 Jason Hines (8)  Olathe, KS, USA
 James Hoak (1)  Dallas, TX, USA
 Greg Hohman (2)  San Diego, CA, USA www.newmonumentsgc.com
 Greg Holland (6)  Greensboro, NC, USA
 Rick Holland (7)  Chicago, IL, USA
 Stephen Hodulik (4)  Rye, NY, USA (in memory of Don Wolff)
 Brian Hoover (1)  Westerville, OH, USA
 Domingo Hospital (3)  Barcelona, SPAIN
 Tom Huckaby (8)  San Jose, CA, USA
 Hart Huffines (6)  Raleigh, NC, USA
 Chris Hufnagel (1)  Ada, MI, USA
 Bob Huntley (8)  Carmel, CA, USA
 Dale Jackson (4)  Victoria, BC, CANADA
 Bob Jenkins (6)  Vancouver, BC, CANADA
 Chris Johnston (2)  Mullen, NE, USA www.dismalriver.com
 Paul Jones (5)  Lafayette, LA, USA
 Sev K-H Keil (2)  New York, NY, USA
 John Kirk (9)  North Plains, OR, USA
 Jerry Kluger (13)  Bethesda, MD, USA
 Gregory Koebel (1)   Saipan, United States Commonwealth of NORTHERN MARIANA ISLANDS
 Greg Krueger (1)  Wendell, NC, USA
 Ian Lagowitz (3)  Caldwell, NJ, USA
 Sheila Lang (3)  The Woodlands, TX, USA
 Steven Lapper (8)  Far Hills, NJ, USA
 Pete Lavallee (9)  San Diego, CA, USA
 Terry Lavin (13)  Chicago, IL, USA
 Sean Leary (5)  Seattle, WA, USA
 Jim Lewis (6)  Pinehurst, NC, USA
 Tim Liddy (2)  Yorktown, IN, USA www.timliddy.com
 Mark Luckhardt (2)  Kincardine, Ontario, CANADA
 Kevin Lynch (3)  East Aurora, NY, USA
 David Maberry (6)  Quarryville, PA, USA
 James MacIver (5)  Charlotte, NC, USA
 MacKenzie Golf Bags (6)  Portland, OR, USA www.mackenziegolfbags.com
 David Madison (6)  Chapel Hill, NC, USA
 Jonathan Mallard (1)  Richmond, VA, USA
 Mayday Malone (7)   Wallingford, PA, USA 
 Robert Marshall (1)  Linwood, NJ, USA
 Timothy Martin (2)  West Hartford, CT, USA
 Tom Maxwell (2)  Bridport, VT, USA
 John Mayhugh (5)  Louisville, KY, USA
 Bill McBride (10)  Pensacola, FL, USA
 Jim McCann (5)  Glasgow, UNITED KINGDOM www.top100golfcourses.co.uk 
 John McCarthy (1)  Chicago, IL, USA
 John McCrory (1)  Raleigh, NC, USA
 Christoph Meister (2)  Hamburg, GERMANY
 Alex Miller (1)  Rancho Palos Verdes, CA, USA
 Jack Monckton (1)  Winnetka, IL, USA
 Ronald Montesano (4)  Grand Island, NY, USA www.BuffaloGolfer.com
 Kelly Blake Moran (7)  Blandon, PA, USA www.kellyblakemoran.com
 J.P. Morgan (6)  Newburgh, IN, USA
 Brett Morrissy (6)  Curlewis, Victoria, AUSTRALIA
 Michael Moss (1)  White Plains, NY, USA
 Andy Moye (1)  Maury, NC, USA
 Pat Mucci (30)  Clifton, NJ, USA
 Tony Muldoon (7)  London, UNITED KINGDOM
 Peter Nicholson (11)  Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
 James Nugent (6)  Ladue, MO, USA
 Mike Nuzzo (12)   Houston, TX, USA www.mnuzzo.com
 Lawrence Oberman (5)  Glenview, IL, USA
 Donal O’Ceallaigh (3)  Balsta, SWEDEN
 Ed Oden (5)  Charlotte, NC, USA
 Matthew Petersen (1)  Phoenix, AZ, USA
 Brian Phillips (6)  Moss, NORWAY www.niblickgolfdesign.com
 Peter Pittock (11)  Portland, OR, USA
 Mike Policano (6)  Paramus, NJ, USA
 Ryan Potts (4)  Glen Ellyn, IL, USA
 Mark Provenzano (1)  Gilroy, CA, USA
 Samuel Ramage (1)  Indianapolis, IN, USA
 Neil Regan (15)  Bronxville, NY, USA
 Kevin Reilly (6)  Lafayette, CA, USA
 Howard Riefs (2)  Winnetka, IL, USA
 Rob Rigg (5)  Scottsdale, AZ, USA www.thewalkinggolfer.com
 Chip Royce (4)  Cary, NC, USA
 David Royer (2)  Dublin, OH, USA
 Adam Russell (1)  Lynbrook, NY, USA
 Michael Ryan (1)  Fairfield, CT, USA
 Matthew Sander (1)  Winfield, IL, USA
 Scott Sander (2)  Carmel, IN, USA
 Stephen Sayre (3)  Chevy Chase, MD, USA
 Eric Schaefer (1)  St. Louis, MO, USA
 Michael Schott (1)  Franklin Hills, MI, USA
 Bill Schulz (19)  Scottsdale, AZ, USA
 Lynn Shackelford (10)  Spicewood, TX, USA
 Richard Shefchik (1)  Stillwater, MN, USA
 James Sherma (1)  Hershey, PA, USA
 John Shimp (1)  Charlotte, NC, USA
 Andrew Shulman (4)  Reston, VA, USA
 Dennis Slattery (4)  San Marino, CA, USA
 Kenneth Slonis (6)  Sewell, NJ, USA
 Eric Smith (7)  Cookeville, TN, USA
 Scott Smith (4)  Wake Forest, NC, USA
 Steven Smith (1)  Troy, MI, USA
 Mark Smolens (8)  Chicago, IL, USA
 Jonathan Spaulding (7)  Laguna Niguel, CA, USA
 Kris Spence (2)  Greensboro, NC, USA www.krisspence.com
 Joe Stansell (1)  Redmond, WA, USA
 Paul Staples (6)  New York, NY, USA
 Vanesha Steffey (1)  Leominster, MA, USA
 John Stiles (8)  Knoxville, TN, USA
 Mark Studer (8)  Pittsburgh, PA, USA (in memory of Don Wolff)
 Mike Sweeney (11)  New York, NY, USA
 Josh Tarble (1)  Indianapolis, IN, USA
 Dan Taylor (7)  Baltimore, MD, USA
 David Tepper (8)  San Francisco, CA, USA
 Eric Terhorst (3)  Wilmette, IL, USA
 Jason Tetterton (6)  Greenville, NC, USA
 Paul Thomas (6)  Oak Lawn, IL, USA
 Jud Tigerman (3)  Glencoe, IL, USA
 Martin Toal (2)  Barkham, Berkshire, UNITED KINGDOM
 Jason Topp (9)  Eden Prairie, MN, USA
 John Vander Borght (8)  Pacific Grove, CA, USA
 William Walker (6)  Haddonfield, NJ, USA
 Clifford Walston (1)  Houston, TX, USA
 Jeff Warne (9)  Sag Harbor, NY, USA
 Michael Whitaker (7)  Greenville, SC, USA (in memory of Jim Goby)
 Jon Wiggett (1)  Conon Bridge, Highland, UNITED KINGDOM
 Cristian Willaert (4)  Amsterdam, NETHERLANDS
 Robert Williams (1)  Wilton, CT, USA
 Buck Wolter (6)  Edwardsville, IL, USA
 Scott Wood (11)  Chatham, NY, USA
 Doug Wright (11)  Denver, CO, USA
 Joel Zuckerman (3)  Savannah, GA, USA

Patrick, you can't believe everything you read on the internet.

Do you think that Ran would deliberatly mislead people ?


I'm sorry to have to have not yet contributed and get called out on my lack of generosity on the internet, LOL
It's all about the golf!

Patrick_Mucci

Re: I think I could make MacKenzie, Tillinghast and others better architects
« Reply #32 on: February 02, 2013, 06:43:03 AM »
PM,

Were there specific architects that you were thinking of, who -- relieved of addressing practical bureaucracy -- would've produced more or better product?

One of them was AWT.
His body of work is rather limited, but the quality of that body of work is truly outstanding.

When you have to wear many hats, as is often the case with one man operations, it tends to dilute and prevent you from doing what you do best to the exclusion of other duties.   Hence had AWT and/or  others had an administrator or staff that would have freed them from the mundane but necessary tasks, they could have devoted more time to that which they did best, design more golf courses.

I marvel at AWT's work, especially in and around Mamaroneck
He designed four of the greatest courses in the world right next to one another.

Winged Foot West
Winged Foot East
Quaker Ridge
Fenway

Each distinctive, and each world class.
You have to marvel at that achievement.

There was an explosion in the number of golf courses in the early part of the 20th Century.
Wouldn't you have liked to have seen more of them crafted by AWT ?


I guess i'm saying, I don't think we got short-changed by many of the ODGs except Raynor.

I'm not so sure.
Ross seems to have been the only one to build an organization, and it was the efficiency of that organization that allowed Ross to be so prolific

Imagine if AWT had adopted that business model.

Sadly, at the present time, the golf course business and the economy are contracting, but when the ODG's were practicing, it was booming, and one man could only do so much when he was the Jack of all trades rather than the Master of one.
And that's one of my primary points.

You "get it".
Unfortunately there are too many morons who don't, who continue to divert threads and take them "off topic"  ;D

« Last Edit: February 02, 2013, 06:45:29 AM by Patrick_Mucci »

Martin Toal

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: I think I could make MacKenzie, Tillinghast and others better architects
« Reply #33 on: February 02, 2013, 07:03:40 AM »

The above post is proof positive that the quality of the posts and those posting continues to deteriorate.

You must be very proud of your contribution to that trend.

I try to do my part but realize that my efforts pale in comparison to yours.

Speaking of contributions, I noticed that neither you, Will, GJ and William Grieve haven't contributed a penny toward helping to support this site.

I guess talk is really cheap where you're concerned.


In my opinion, calling out others because they have not contributed financially is not in the spirit of this site.

Ironically this post was made after one denouncing morons who take threads off topic. Oh, the irony.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: I think I could make MacKenzie, Tillinghast and others better architects
« Reply #34 on: February 02, 2013, 07:08:40 AM »
Martin,

As usual, your reply contributes nothing to this site.

And, I didn't initiate the use of the word "contribution/s" in this thread, some other moron, beside yourself, did. ;D

Martin Toal

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: I think I could make MacKenzie, Tillinghast and others better architects
« Reply #35 on: February 02, 2013, 07:24:37 AM »
Patrick

You are a pompous arse.

Moron is an old term denoting an IQ of between 50 and 70, now used by the ignorant as an insult.

It is to your greater detriment that you cannot claim a low IQ as a defence for your egotistical, self-aggrandising flatulent outpourings.

Your problem appears to be one with narcissism and attention-seeking as its central features. Some sociopathic elements too. These disorders do not usually respond to heavy doses of anti-psychotics, but I would be sure willing to give them a try anyway.

Goodbye

Patrick_Mucci

Re: I think I could make MacKenzie, Tillinghast and others better architects
« Reply #36 on: February 02, 2013, 07:38:44 AM »
Martin,

Yawn, yawn.

To repeat,

As usual, your reply contributes nothing to this site, other than your typical shrill whining, that is.

William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: I think I could make MacKenzie, Tillinghast and others better architects
« Reply #37 on: February 02, 2013, 10:54:39 AM »
Martin,

Yawn, yawn.

To repeat,

As usual, your reply contributes nothing to this site, other than your typical shrill whining, that is.

cyberbullying by a cyberbully
It's all about the golf!

Brad Isaacs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: I think I could make MacKenzie, Tillinghast and others better architects
« Reply #38 on: February 02, 2013, 12:14:37 PM »
Pat has been nothing but a gentleman to me. He has opinion, ok, so do I. We talk about it differently, but  he does have a point about supporting this site.  Better get my check in. Guilty as charged.

There is also a point about creativity. Rare is the person that is a complete Renaisance ( not referring to Doak here please stay on subject)man. Few have it all.

A good manager could have helped a lot of those "guys " do better work but not all. Self destructive behavior is hard to overcome.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: I think I could make MacKenzie, Tillinghast and others better architects
« Reply #39 on: February 02, 2013, 01:21:54 PM »
Martin,

Yawn, yawn.

To repeat,

As usual, your reply contributes nothing to this site, other than your typical shrill whining, that is.

cyberbullying by a cyberbully


William,

You must be some wimp

You can give it out but you can't take it.

Keep whining, it so becomes you.

Cyber bullying, what a joke and what a joke you are

Patrick_Mucci

Re: I think I could make MacKenzie, Tillinghast and others better architects
« Reply #40 on: February 02, 2013, 01:30:39 PM »
If you'll go back and reread this thread, you'll see that it as Will Lozier who took it off topic and personalized it by involving me, then Mark Pearce and others joined in, so William, if you want to start admonishing people, start with the ones who redirected the thread and got personal, instead of whining about me.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: I think I could make MacKenzie, Tillinghast and others better architects
« Reply #41 on: February 02, 2013, 02:19:57 PM »
Brad,

Thanks for the kind words.

As you know, trying to be all things to all people is a difficult chore, one that often dilutes the effort or dulls the particular area of expertise.

There's a reason why many surgeons have others anesthetize, close the patient up and care for them post-op.
If the surgeon did all those things and everything, he'd have less time for what he does best, and he'd have less experience in his field of expertise, less time to devote to his specialty.

Why wouldn't the same apply to an architect ?

Scott Sander

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: I think I could make MacKenzie, Tillinghast and others better architects
« Reply #42 on: February 02, 2013, 04:22:58 PM »
I presume it would have depended largely on the internal engine of the ODG.  His motor-vation, if you will.

Forgive a bad analogy, but it's all I've got...

I earn my paycheck in a field in which success demands creativity within a rigid framework.
When I was young and scared and desperate to find firmer footing in my chosen field, I had to tackle all the different daily chores on my own.  It was a mad scramble every new day - acquisition, inspiration, assembly, execution - all alone and all on deadline.  But I was good.  Consistency eluded me, but when I look back on my best from those early years, I'm stunned.  And a little saddened by what I've lost.

Now, older and mindful of things like mortgages and blood pressure, I am surrounded by colleagues who specialize - one in each of the tasks I used to tackle on my own.  We approach and tackle those daily deadlines together.  And we are consistent.  Consistency is now our cornerstone, as we unfailingly deliver extremely solid work.  But when examined honestly on the basis of creativiy, rarely if ever do we crank something out that could nudge aside any of the best 10 projects of, say, the first 10 years of my career.

It's my problem, not anyone else's.  But I can't imagine that I'm alone in finding that in the trade for the sanity that being a part of a team provides, a bit of useful edge is dulled.

Or not.  Dunno.  But that's what occurs to me.

Michael Moore

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: I think I could make MacKenzie, Tillinghast and others better architects
« Reply #43 on: February 02, 2013, 04:33:12 PM »
Pat -

You just accused some people of not contributing a penny to this site, then produced a list of contributors in 2013 as "evidence". This is patently false argumentation, again. If you are going to argue to the degree that you do, it would behoove you to stick to the facts.
Metaphor is social and shares the table with the objects it intertwines and the attitudes it reconciles. Opinion, like the Michelin inspector, dines alone. - Adam Gopnik, The Table Comes First

Patrick_Mucci

Re: I think I could make MacKenzie, Tillinghast and others better architects
« Reply #44 on: February 02, 2013, 05:09:17 PM »
Pat -

You just accused some people of not contributing a penny to this site, then produced a list of contributors in 2013 as "evidence". This is patently false argumentation, again. If you are going to argue to the degree that you do, it would behoove you to stick to the facts.

If you knew what you were talking about, which you don't, you'd realize that the list is a cumulative list with 2012/2013 contributors listed in red.

Hence, before you post, get the facts right

« Last Edit: February 02, 2013, 07:08:44 PM by Patrick_Mucci »

William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: I think I could make MacKenzie, Tillinghast and others better architects
« Reply #45 on: February 02, 2013, 05:31:13 PM »
Martin,

Yawn, yawn.

To repeat,

As usual, your reply contributes nothing to this site, other than your typical shrill whining, that is.

cyberbullying by a cyberbully


William,

You must be some wimp

You can give it out but you can't take it.

Keep whining, it so becomes you.

Cyber bullying, what a joke and what a joke you are


of course
It's all about the golf!

Michael Moore

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: I think I could make MacKenzie, Tillinghast and others better architects
« Reply #46 on: February 02, 2013, 05:40:14 PM »
the list is a cumulative list with 2012/2013 contributors listed in red

If that is the case, why does the contributions page say "contributions received this month are in red"?
Metaphor is social and shares the table with the objects it intertwines and the attitudes it reconciles. Opinion, like the Michelin inspector, dines alone. - Adam Gopnik, The Table Comes First

Patrick_Mucci

Re: I think I could make MacKenzie, Tillinghast and others better architects
« Reply #47 on: February 02, 2013, 05:54:44 PM »
the list is a cumulative list with 2012/2013 contributors listed in red

If that is the case, why does the contributions page say "contributions received this month are in red"?

YOU MORON, ;D

Because, to date when the list was posted, January represented the entirety of calendar year 2013.


Michael Moore

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: I think I could make MacKenzie, Tillinghast and others better architects
« Reply #48 on: February 02, 2013, 06:02:44 PM »
Yeah, but you said the "2012/2013 contributors" were "listed in red", not just the 2013 contributors.

And you know that the list is not a cumulative list of everyone who has ever contributed, right? So you can't look at that list and accuse people of what they have or have not done.
Metaphor is social and shares the table with the objects it intertwines and the attitudes it reconciles. Opinion, like the Michelin inspector, dines alone. - Adam Gopnik, The Table Comes First

William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: I think I could make MacKenzie, Tillinghast and others better architects
« Reply #49 on: February 02, 2013, 06:24:22 PM »
the list is a cumulative list with 2012/2013 contributors listed in red

If that is the case, why does the contributions page say "contributions received this month are in red"?

YOU MORON, ;D

Because, to date when the list was posted, January represented the entirety of calendar year 2013.

stupid human!
It's all about the golf!