Trump not being neighborly in Miami

[Howard Riefs]

Some things never change.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/01/31/3210937/trouble-on-the-green.html

* Plant(ing) rows and rows of areca palms around the red and gold golf courses, erecting a visual buffer between the homes and greens. Trump said the trees were necessary to protect the homeowners from getting hit with golf balls and to muffle the sound of the maintenance workers.

* The palm trees are only part of the problem, say the residents, who’ve complained to the city about loud, early morning noises coming from the resort’s maintenance crews.The president of the homeowners association says he regularly hears from members complaining about the noise.

[Alex Miller]

This exact thing happened on he driving range at Trump LA.

The neighbors weren't clamoring to see the range, but rather the ocean beyond it.

Also he erected a 150ft flag pole with a huge flag that upset other neighbors too.

[Greg Tallman]

Buy a home on a golf course and then complain when they want to prepare the course for play... gotta love it.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Some things never change.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/01/31/3210937/trouble-on-the-green.html

* Plant(ing) rows and rows of areca palms around the red and gold golf courses, erecting a visual buffer between the homes and greens. Trump said the trees were necessary to protect the homeowners from getting hit with golf balls and to muffle the sound of the maintenance workers.

1     Trump didn't sell those homes to their owners
2     Trump didn't sell those homes to the owners with the promise of a golf course view
3     Trump is doing what anyone with a brain would do, create an attractive visual and acoustic buffer.
4     The area is an industrial park and residential area.


* The palm trees are only part of the problem, say the residents, who’ve complained to the city about loud, early morning noises coming from the resort’s maintenance crews.The president of the homeowners association says he regularly hears from members complaining about the noise.

Oh my, Trump is actually maintaining the golf course, having his crews mow/groom the course in the morning.
I wonder if other courses engage in that practice.

I wonder if they complain about the traffic on Doral Boulevard which is immediately adjacent to Fairway Homes OR the constant noise from Jets taking off and landing every two minutes, just a few blocks southeast of Fairway Homes, at Miami International Airport ?

[jeffwarne]

Buy a home on a golf course and then complain when they want to prepare the course for play... gotta love it.

Yep, exactly what I was thinking.

It's a perfect match-and it's only beginning.
Trump meets the manana mentality.

In Trump's defense, those complaining about mower noise deserve the trees.
In the homeowner's defense, all it takes is a couple knuckleheads complaining about mower noise and the rest of the homeowners get screwed with blocked noise/views.

It's an interesting area by Doral-I lived there for 10 years.
and Pat's right, mower noise is NOTHING compared to the jets.

Ironically when the redid the White course 10-12 years ago they knocked down dozens of huge ficus trees, exposing views of neighborhoods that let's just say you wouldn't park your car in

[Patrick_Mucci]

This exact thing happened on he driving range at Trump LA.

The neighbors weren't clamoring to see the range, but rather the ocean beyond it.

Also he erected a 150ft flag pole with a huge flag that upset other neighbors too.

What flag was Trump flying ?

[Alex Miller]

I didn't mean to defend Trump or the neighbors in my post. Just saying it's happened before...

Pat, a very large United States flag. It's patriotic, but if there's any wind at all it's quite loud from the flag flying over the first tee.

[Mark Steffey]

This exact thing happened on he driving range at Trump LA.

The neighbors weren't clamoring to see the range, but rather the ocean beyond it.

Also he erected a 150ft flag pole with a huge flag that upset other neighbors too.

they should have bought ocean front property in the first place.

[Alex Miller]

This exact thing happened on he driving range at Trump LA.

The neighbors weren't clamoring to see the range, but rather the ocean beyond it.

Also he erected a 150ft flag pole with a huge flag that upset other neighbors too.

they should have bought ocean front property in the first place.

It is ocean front. From there rear windows I'd guess that Trump's trees blocked about 1/3 of it (180 degree views). 

Since, the trees have been removed but the longest of hitters aren't allowed to hit driver.

[Greg Tallman]

The same people would complain if tee times did not begin until 9:00 due to noise considerations.

[Patrick_Mucci]

I didn't mean to defend Trump or the neighbors in my post. Just saying it's happened before...

Pat, a very large United States flag. It's patriotic, but if there's any wind at all it's quite loud from the flag flying over the first tee.

Alex,

I doubt the flag is larger than the huge American flag at Bayonne, which is larger than a tennis court and one of the most majestic sights I've witnessed while playing golf

The huge American flag is on a pole that's sunk 75 feet to counter the stress forces created by the wind.

That flag is visible from most of the locations on the golf course and it is inspiring.

If Trump is flying a massive American flag, good for him.

One of my favorite sounds, on and off the golf course is to hear the American flag snapping loudly in the wind at Seminole.

You have absolutely no idea how loud that area is with the runways for Miami International Airport just a few blocks away.

The snapping of the American flag is music to your ears in comparison.

Trump 1, Homeowners 0 on this one.

[Alex Miller]

Not sure if this is after a reduction in size, but even so I'm not sure what the big deal was either. All it takes is one unhappy resident, time, and inane city codes.

[Mark Steffey]

It is ocean front. From there rear windows I'd guess that Trump's trees blocked about 1/3 of it (180 degree views). 

Since, the trees have been removed but the longest of hitters aren't allowed to hit driver.

checked it out on google maps.   i would say the western side of yacht harbour drive and maritime road are ocean front.   those in the cul de sac are range front, but not ocean front

[Joe_Tucholski]

This exact thing happened on he driving range at Trump LA.

The neighbors weren't clamoring to see the range, but rather the ocean beyond it.

Also he erected a 150ft flag pole with a huge flag that upset other neighbors too.

What flag was Trump flying ?

One of my favorite things about the course was the large American flag flying with the ocean in the background.

Interestingly enough Palos Verdes does have a view obstruction code where the owners of homes do have some rights to their views, but there is a specific section in the code that allows for waivers for flag poles in excess of 16ft if "no significant impact on views from surrounding properties would result."

[Alex Miller]

I'm getting taken to school here... and I love it! I didn't follow the controversy too closely at the time (obviously). Thanks all.

[Patrick_Mucci]

The President of the Homeowners Association is either a moron or a liar or possibly both.

He claims to want to be able to sleep until 7:30 am.

International flight Departures begin at 6:05 am.

And, those aren't small jets, they're Boeing 767-300's, Boeing 757's, Boeing 747's, Airbus 330-200's, Airbus 340-600's, and, they're at maximum thrust as they initiate their climb out..............  and he's complaining about greens mowers ?  ?  ?

[JLahrman]

[Brian_Ewen]

“What happens is when you are on, as an example, the first green on the gold course, you are staring at houses with laundry hanging out their window in some cases. It’s not appropriate for the finest resort in the country,” Trump said.

    

[C. Squier]

“What happens is when you are on, as an example, the first green on the gold course, you are staring at houses with laundry hanging out their window in some cases. It’s not appropriate for the finest resort in the country,” Trump said.

    

That's a more rational argument than homeowners (who live on a golf course) complaining about lawn mowers.  Much more rational.

I agree w/ Mucci.  Match goes to Trump.

[Bryan Izatt]

Just so we're clear, it's the City of Doral that has fined Trump for breaching the City's noise bylaws, and is further seeking an injunction to prevent further breaches.   Doesn't every course in any municipality have to abide by the bylaws of the municipality they are in?  Why should Doral be different?

The homes in question appear to be in the resort.  I wonder what covenants there were when the homes were sold?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Just so we're clear, it's the City of Doral that has fined Trump for breaching the City's noise bylaws, and is further seeking an injunction to prevent further breaches.   Doesn't every course in any municipality have to abide by the bylaws of the municipality they are in?  Why should Doral be different?

Bryan,

Trump hasn't changed the maintenance hours
If the city didn't enforce the ordinance for the previous owner, why start now ?
And if the didn't enforce the ordinance previously, do they forfeit the right to do so now ?

The homes in question appear to be in the resort.  I wonder what covenants there were when the homes were sold?


I don't think the homes are in the resort, i think they're at the Southwest corner outside the resort

[Sean_A]

Just so we're clear, it's the City of Doral that has fined Trump for breaching the City's noise bylaws, and is further seeking an injunction to prevent further breaches.   Doesn't every course in any municipality have to abide by the bylaws of the municipality they are in?  Why should Doral be different?

Bryan,

Trump hasn't changed the maintenance hours
If the city didn't enforce the ordinance for the previous owner, why start now ?
And if the didn't enforce the ordinance previously, do they forfeit the right to do so now ?

Pat

Why does it matter why the city has enforced an ordinance?  And no, no right of enforcement is not negated due to lack of enforcement.  Perhaps the city didn't know the ordinance was being violated.  My guess is that nobody (or not enough people) complained previously.  I am sure after getting some complaints the situation was checked out by city officials.  Isn't that usually how the system works?  A public body reacting to complaints from the public?  Or do you think cities have the cash to daily/weekly/monthly carry out spot checks for every city ordinance/regulation etc?  While it isn't a perfect system, enforcement of ordinances/regulations and laws often relies upon citizens to report problems.  Many don't because they don't want to be negatively labelled as some have on this thread. 

Ciao

[Bryan Izatt]

Just so we're clear, it's the City of Doral that has fined Trump for breaching the City's noise bylaws, and is further seeking an injunction to prevent further breaches.   Doesn't every course in any municipality have to abide by the bylaws of the municipality they are in?  Why should Doral be different?

Bryan,

Trump hasn't changed the maintenance hours   How do you know?
If the city didn't enforce the ordinance for the previous owner, why start now ?  Objection! Hypothetical. You don't know what hours the previous owners kept nor whether they were ever sanctioned for breaking bylaws.
And if the didn't enforce the ordinance previously, do they forfeit the right to do so now ?  Objection! Hypothetical.  The City has already fined and is seeking a further injunction.  The court will decide. And, if you follow the case maybe you'll find out if your hypothetical premise is valid.

The homes in question appear to be in the resort.  I wonder what covenants there were when the homes were sold?


I don't think the homes are in the resort, i think they're at the Southwest corner outside the resort  Trump said they were beside the 1st green on the Red course as far as I recall.  That would place them in Doral Estates encircled by 5 or 6 holes.

Does the municipality in which your home course resides have noise bylaws?  Does your club abide by the bylaws?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Why does it matter why the city has enforced an ordinance?  

It matters because is they failed to enforce the ordinance, I don't believe that they can enforce the ordinance on a selective basis.

And no, no right of enforcement is not negated due to lack of enforcement.  

I'm not so sure about that.

Perhaps the city didn't know the ordinance was being violated.  

That's improbable to impossible.

My guess is that nobody (or not enough people) complained previously.  I am sure after getting some complaints the situation was checked out by city officials.  Isn't that usually how the system works?  A public body reacting to complaints from the public?  Or do you think cities have the cash to daily/weekly/monthly carry out spot checks for every city ordinance/regulation etc?  While it isn't a perfect system, enforcement of ordinances/regulations and laws often relies upon citizens to report problems.  Many don't because they don't want to be negatively labelled as some have on this thread.  

Sean,

I'll guarantee you that people complained previously, but, the golf course was there first, starting in 1962, the homes were built starting in 1992..

you're so unfamiliar with the area that you don't understand that it's almost impossible to hear anything over the noise of the jets taking off and landing.  Hence, the complaints about equipment are a joke.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Just so we're clear, it's the City of Doral that has fined Trump for breaching the City's noise bylaws, and is further seeking an injunction to prevent further breaches.   Doesn't every course in any municipality have to abide by the bylaws of the municipality they are in?  Why should Doral be different?

Bryan,

Trump hasn't changed the maintenance hours   How do you know?

Because members and reliable sources have told me so.
What's your source of information ?


If the city didn't enforce the ordinance for the previous owner, why start now ?  Objection! Hypothetical.
You don't know what hours the previous owners kept nor whether they were ever sanctioned for breaking bylaws.

Yes, I do know what hours they kept, and they're the same hours.
The problem is, you don't know anything about the area or issues.
And, by-laws have nothing to do with it.


And if the didn't enforce the ordinance previously, do they forfeit the right to do so now ?  Objection! Hypothetical.  The City has already fined and is seeking a further injunction.  The court will decide. And, if you follow the case maybe you'll find out if your hypothetical premise is valid.

The case will never go to court.
And, the fines and injunction can be reversed and lifted.
And, I'll wager you on that.

The homes in question appear to be in the resort.  I wonder what covenants there were when the homes were sold?


I don't think the homes are in the resort, i think they're at the Southwest corner outside the resort  Trump said they were beside the 1st green on the Red course as far as I recall.  That would place them in Doral Estates encircled by 5 or 6 holes.

They're on NW 93rd st.

As to the covenants, they wouldn't be able to bind Doral, which was there long before "Fairway Homes at Doral Estates"
1962 vs 1992.

Does the municipality in which your home course resides have noise bylaws?  


NO, By-Laws are for corporations and associations, ordinances are for municipalities

Does your club abide by the bylaws?

My club abides by THEIR by-laws.