Only time for one. Streamsong Blue or Red?

[J_ Crisham]

In true Techner fashion, Ari has managed to organise a game at both courses this week.

@ Jack - fair point and that's why my first sentence specifically states I have not been there. I would point out that if we were precluded from commenting on courses that we have not played, the board would be a lot quieter place.

Patrick

Patrick, solitude is to be enjoyed- cheers

[Ari Techner]

Managed to squeeze in rounds at both Red and Blue over the last couple days.  Overall the main thing that I got out of my visit is that Streamsong is a VERY special place and I cannot wait to return.   The second thing is how amazing it is that these 2 courses are in the state of Florida.  Standing ovation to everyone involved in this project.  As I said above I cannot wait for my return.   Both courses are phenomenal.   

[Mark Chaplin]

So Ari back to your question only time for one Red or Blue?!

[Ari Techner]

So Ari back to your question only time for one Red or Blue?!

I agree wIth Tom.  10 or less I'd play Red if only time for one and 10 or more handicap Id play Blue.  Though you really can't go wrong with either.  I personally would play Red if given the chance for only one more round.  I liked the overall look and feel of the course a little better.   To me it had a little more of a raw and natural aesthetic to it.   

[Tim_Weiman]

Ari,

Just played both, but far preferred the Blue. 

[Chris Johnston]

Blue for me but I wouldn't go for just one round.

[Howard Riefs]

Matt Ginella weighs in on the debate of Red or Blue at Streamsong:

Based on a small sample set—one round on each—I prefer the Red.

He explains:

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/travel-insider/streamsong-resort-florida-red-or-blue-golf-course/

[Frank Sullivan]

Matt Ginella weighs in on the debate of Red or Blue at Streamsong:

Based on a small sample set—one round on each—I prefer the Red.

He explains:

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/travel-insider/streamsong-resort-florida-red-or-blue-golf-course/

Howard, thanks for the link!

I think the last statement Matt made in his article - half of his group preferred the Red and half the Blue - is what I like so much about Streamsong.  BOTH courses are of high quality and merit play.  The worst thing that could have happened would have been for one course to be completely superior to the other in everyone's eyes.  I have played both courses 3 times.  I would split my rounds 5 and 5.  IMO, the Blue is a better golf course from a design perspective with amazing variety and more interesting green complexes..  However, IMO the Red is more beautiful to the average Joe.  I love both courses plain and simple.

[Tom_Doak]

Matt Ginella weighs in on the debate of Red or Blue at Streamsong:

Based on a small sample set—one round on each—I prefer the Red.

He explains:

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/travel-insider/streamsong-resort-florida-red-or-blue-golf-course/

Part of Matt's take was that he evidently played better on the Red than the Blue.  (He didn't say it that way, he said he scored ten shots lower on the Red, and tried to blame it on the greens of the Blue.)

The interesting part of that, is that a friend asked me, in all the debate about the two courses so far, if ANYONE had said the Blue course was harder than the Red.  I said no, I hadn't heard that once so far.  My friend was not surprised.

[JR Potts]

Matt Ginella weighs in on the debate of Red or Blue at Streamsong:

Based on a small sample set—one round on each—I prefer the Red.

He explains:

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/travel-insider/streamsong-resort-florida-red-or-blue-golf-course/

Part of Matt's take was that he evidently played better on the Red than the Blue.  (He didn't say it that way, he said he scored ten shots lower on the Red, and tried to blame it on the greens of the Blue.)

The interesting part of that, is that a friend asked me, in all the debate about the two courses so far, if ANYONE had said the Blue course was harder than the Red.  I said no, I hadn't heard that once so far.  My friend was not surprised.

I'll be the first to say it.  The Blue Course is harder than the Red Course in my opinion.  The front nine of the Red is easy - very easy in my opinion.  The Blue course has enough difficulty around the greens and in the pinnable locations that it can and will play consistently harder.  In my two tips around the Red Course - I didn't shoot above 34 on the front 9 of the Red....the back nine is a different story though.  My nine hole scores around the Blue were much more balanced.

[J_ Crisham]

Matt Ginella weighs in on the debate of Red or Blue at Streamsong:

Based on a small sample set—one round on each—I prefer the Red.

He explains:

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/travel-insider/streamsong-resort-florida-red-or-blue-golf-course/

Part of Matt's take was that he evidently played better on the Red than the Blue.  (He didn't say it that way, he said he scored ten shots lower on the Red, and tried to blame it on the greens of the Blue.)

The interesting part of that, is that a friend asked me, in all the debate about the two courses so far, if ANYONE had said the Blue course was harder than the Red.  I said no, I hadn't heard that once so far.  My friend was not surprised.

I'll be the first to say it.  The Blue Course is harder than the Red Course in my opinion.  The front nine of the Red is easy - very easy in my opinion.  The Blue course has enough difficulty around the greens and in the pinnable locations that it can and will play consistently harder.  In my two tips around the Red Course - I didn't shoot above 34 on the front 9 of the Red....the back nine is a different story though.  My nine hole scores around the Blue were much more balanced.

Ryan,  The front and back nine yardages for the Red are completely unbalanced- the front was about 3100 and the back was 3500 +. We thought the first 3 tee shots on Red were tough with a hard quartering wind off the left on #2. Blue was definitely more balanced.

[Bill_McBride]

Matt Ginella weighs in on the debate of Red or Blue at Streamsong:

Based on a small sample set—one round on each—I prefer the Red.

He explains:

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/travel-insider/streamsong-resort-florida-red-or-blue-golf-course/

Part of Matt's take was that he evidently played better on the Red than the Blue.  (He didn't say it that way, he said he scored ten shots lower on the Red, and tried to blame it on the greens of the Blue.)

The interesting part of that, is that a friend asked me, in all the debate about the two courses so far, if ANYONE had said the Blue course was harder than the Red.  I said no, I hadn't heard that once so far.  My friend was not surprised.

As I mentioned on another Streamsong thread by Bryan Izatt, the head and assistant pros at my club played both courses last week and gave the Red a clear nod, citing the wilder greens on the Blue.   They are clearly of the scorecard and pencil crowd and therefore not to be trusted.  I'm excited about playing both next month and will evaluate based on usual criterion:  how much fun did I have.

[Mark Hissey]

Blue every day of the week. I thought it is fantastic. I liked the Red but not nearly as much. I rarely disagree with Brad on anything, but I do on this one.

[BCrosby]

Bill McB says:

"As I mentioned on another Streamsong thread by Bryan Izatt, the head and assistant pros at my club played both courses last week and gave the Red a clear nod, citing the wilder greens on the Blue.   They are clearly of the scorecard and pencil crowd ..."

There's something to that. A couple of people in my group mentioned that Blue was more suited to match play, Red to medal play. In a rough and ready way I think that is a useful way to distinguish the courses.

Another general observation is the use both courses make of use of a lot of c/l bunkers. There are more than you see on most modern courses. They work well. They brought to mind John Low from a century ago and his notion that c/l bunkers were a kind of litmus test for understanding good design. I think Low would have been delighted with both SS courses.


Bob

[Rob Marshall]

So I played the Blue today and liked it a lot. When I'm back next year I'll hit the Red. So here are my thoughts. Pace of play was great. We teed off at 10:15 and had the place to ourselves. There were a few open times ahead of us and we never saw the guys behind us after the 3rd hole.

The fairways were wide but with the bunkers and waste areas you still had to think your way around. The greens were huge and undulating but not as severe as I had expected. The greens were in great shape, fast and firm.  The surrounds reminded my of a Royal County Down. I never hit a chip or pitch. I used putter every where.  The only negative I found was the bunkers and waste areas seem to have too much sand in them. Most courses I've played with waste areas the area is firm. On the Blue waste areas had a lot of deep foot prints. Balls hit into the green side bunkers buried. Not fried but buried with no chance for recovery. True hazards. Don't miss the green left if the pin is in front on the par 3 5th hole. You may never be seen again.

[Tom_Doak]

The only negative I found was the bunkers and waste areas seem to have too much sand in them. Most courses I've played with waste areas the area is firm. On the Blue waste areas had a lot of deep foot prints. Balls hit into the green side bunkers buried. Not fried but buried with no chance for recovery. True hazards.

Has it been really droughty in Florida the past couple of months?  I'm just wondering why the playability of the sand is changing.  It was a bit soft when we were building the courses, but didn't play as described.

"Too much sand in them" is an interesting choice of words.  It's the same thing Gary Player said about the bunkers at Troon before the Open in 1982.  The greenkeeper was asked for a response and he said "I don't know what we could do about it, as far as I know the sand goes all the way to China". 

[Rob Marshall]

The only negative I found was the bunkers and waste areas seem to have too much sand in them. Most courses I've played with waste areas the area is firm. On the Blue waste areas had a lot of deep foot prints. Balls hit into the green side bunkers buried. Not fried but buried with no chance for recovery. True hazards.

Has it been really droughty in Florida the past couple of months?  I'm just wondering why the playability of the sand is changing.  It was a bit soft when we were building the courses, but didn't play as described.

"Too much sand in them" is an interesting choice of words.  It's the same thing Gary Player said about the bunkers at Troon before the Open in 1982.  The greenkeeper was asked for a response and he said "I don't know what we could do about it, as far as I know the sand goes all the way to China". 

Tom,
Hopefully I can learn something from you here. How is the bunker front left on number 5 supposed to play.  The sand was extremely deep at the bottom which has to be 20 feet down. I could see a high handicapper never getting out and the ball rolling down and into his foot prints from his hike down. Almost happened to me. The other was on #7. Back pin and I hit it into the bunker on the right side. The ball buried on the side hill down slope towards the pin. I would have thought it would be almost impossible for the ball to bury there. Was your intention for them to play so severe?

[K Rafkin]

The only negative I found was the bunkers and waste areas seem to have too much sand in them. Most courses I've played with waste areas the area is firm. On the Blue waste areas had a lot of deep foot prints. Balls hit into the green side bunkers buried. Not fried but buried with no chance for recovery. True hazards.

Has it been really droughty in Florida the past couple of months?  I'm just wondering why the playability of the sand is changing.  It was a bit soft when we were building the courses, but didn't play as described.

"Too much sand in them" is an interesting choice of words.  It's the same thing Gary Player said about the bunkers at Troon before the Open in 1982.  The greenkeeper was asked for a response and he said "I don't know what we could do about it, as far as I know the sand goes all the way to China". 

Tom,

Im waiting for the day when you dont have a perfect comedic store/quote for just about every situation, however until that day comes ill just sit back and enjoy it.

To answer the OP

I liked the red a bit better and my brother liked the blue a bit better but we both agreed it was very close.  I guess if i had to choose (without having played either course more then the other) i would go for red.  However if i was a member at streamsong and played there every day i would most likely prefer to play the blue course 2 out of every three times. 

But at streamsong both 6s return to the clubhouse setting you up perfectly for 6, 12, 18, and 24 holes  so if 36 isnt an option skip lunch (which is pretty good) and shoot for 24 to get a taste of both. 

[Jim Nugent]

I liked the red a bit better and my brother liked the blue a bit better but we both agreed it was very close. 

However if i was a member at streamsong and played there every day i would most likely prefer to play the blue course 2 out of every three times. 

Just curious, if you like red a bit more, why would you play blue twice as much? 

[Michael George]

Just got back from Streamsong.  You cannot go wrong with either golf course.  Both are incredibly good.

Some thoughts:

(1) I liked the front 9 on the Blue better than any single 9.  The 2nd hole is the most underrated on the property.  It just flows perfectly along the property down the hill and back up to the green (not the sternest test, but a hole everyone enjoys playing).  The 4th is obviously quite impressive and a truly great golf hole.  6 is a fun short par 4 before the bear holes at 7 and 8.  Perfectly routed.  Just a joy to play.  Overall, when looking at both 18's, I think they are just too close for me to distinguish.

(2) If you like undulating greens and false fronts/sides with really dramatic chips and putts, you will like the Blue.  If you like more subtle greens that gently flow from the fairways, you will like the Red.  Blue is harder if you can't chip or putt.  Red is harder for the shorter hitters and poor long iron players.

(3) I don't agree that the Red is over more dramatic land.  I think 1-7 and 14-18 on Red are over very dramatic land, but so is 1-8 and 14-18 on Blue.   

(4) I thought the weakest holes on both courses were the first few on the back 9.  On Red, it is the march uphill to get to 12.  On the Blue, it is the flat land from 11-13.  I wanted to love 13 on the Blue, but it was just too penal to consider driver.

(5) Holes that I still need to think about - #16 on the Red.  Is the Biarritz too much with the huge collection area to the left, huge dunes to the right and long carry over water.  I liked the hole, but just don't know when it is too much??  #13 on the Blue.  Did I miss something to the right over the dunes.  I wanted to pull driver, but could not convince myself....which is extremely rare as I always go for it.

(6) Both very deserving of top 50 US recognition.  They are that good.  Very impressed.... and at $250 for 36 holes, a good deal.

[K Rafkin]

I liked the red a bit better and my brother liked the blue a bit better but we both agreed it was very close. 

However if i was a member at streamsong and played there every day i would most likely prefer to play the blue course 2 out of every three times. 

Just curious, if you like red a bit more, why would you play blue twice as much? 

Overdue response...  I was just at stream song again this past weekend and still feel the same.  A big part of my desire to play blue more often (assuming i was playing there everyday) despite liking red just a little bit more, has to do with the mega sized fairways.  Streamsong is relatively exposed and when the wind picks up, which it will, that extra space in the fairway is greatly appreciated.  I also think blue is a slightly more pleasant walk.  The one part on Blue course keeping it from being the perfect everyday stroll is the brutal finishing holes of 17/18 when played into a wind.  17 isn't that tough as you do get an extra shot, but 18 is just brutal.  I enjoy a tough 18th hole as much as the next guy, i just sometimes walk of the course feeling i left something out there when I'm fighting to make a bogey.  Either way you can't go wrong Both courses are spectacular.

If you are looking for a great 16 hole circuit at Streamsong go for 1-6 on Blue then 1-6 on Red, then hole 7 on blue, then 16-18.

[Brian Potash]

Blue - just spectacular

Only negative was it is a very long walk.  The two older gentlemen whom I played with were totally spent by the end.

All in my group preferred Blue for what it's worth.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Heading down to Orlando tomorrow and I only have time to play one round at Streamsong. 
For those of you who have played both, would you recommend Red or Blue for this one round?


My surgeon and three other physicians from MSKCC just returned from several days at Streamsong.

I'll ask them which they preferred............ and why.

[Mark_Fine]

I wouldn't go there and not play both.  They are both 7.5 to 8's and likely will only get better for me the more often I play them.  If you have already played both, the bass fishing is a great option and is a solid 9 - 10 😉

[Ryan Taylor]

Do you prefer big and bold features with plenty of width? (e.g. Royal Melbourne)

or

Do you prefer strategic with intricate details that may be missed the first time around? (e.g. Mid Pines)

One round - I would choose Blue as it's quite a bit different from most courses that you would see in the US. The Red has to be played multiple times to appreciate all of the subtle design features. While great, the Red plays very similarly to other C&C efforts - Dormie Club, etc.

Edit - However, the Red back nine is the best nine on the property IMO and would be difficult to pass up if I had the choice of one round. Tough choice! You can't go wrong with either.