[RJ_Daley]

Jay, thanks for the call today.  Sorry I was so abrupt and in the middle of a e-mail crisis.  I still don't know if I was hacked or if it was an error, but all my mailbox contacts are gone along with all my saved e-mail records for years. 

At any rate, while certainly I'm no turf expert, I'm pretty sure that the greens turf of all species and cultivars that are triplex mowed, and their yearly cycle of cultural practices like spiking, aerating, verticutting and such are more significant to turf present conditions (all of which heal fast anyway) than the few eligible handicap people that may even have to drive right on to a green. 

The people pulling or pushing carts is a complete non issue.  The weight on any tire can't be a fraction of a single foot print.  And, the only real issue is entrance and egress to the green if done over and over again from people parking the carts on a path in the same place near the green, and always walking over the same fringe surrounds over and over.  This is where compaction happens and turf is weakened and lost.  We've all seen it thousands of times.  Some of the greatest golf course most famous greens suffer from that because the classic or iconic design of the green is such that there is only one logical way to get onto and off the green or one logical place for cart riders to park next to a green.  Signage and rope lines are more apt to save greens, from that practice, and instruct handicapp golfers (the minute few that there are) where and how to approach and use the facility.  It is no ADA violation to give instructions that help accomplish access for the handicap user.  A little common sense goes a long way.  IMO, whoever is flogging this issue is not being forthcoming on the facts of the matter, probably for some aspect of self interest.

If I'm wrong, I welcome some specific examples that amount to a hill of beans.  There must be some isolated and extreme example, but I have never been to any course where this was an ongoing problem, nor can I think of any directive for better green access via reasonable solutions, that would screw up any design.  Can anyone come up with something specific? 

[corey miller]

I have seen the result of these professional plaintiffs using this law in my community.  I am anti-big-government but don't really want to get in a position where it would be perceived that I would deny any reasonable person, with a passion for the game, access because at the end of the day, were it someone I knew, I would be the first person to carry them out to the flag-stick myself were it necessary.

I am not familiar with the particulars of the law but would offer if all those folks in the metro NYC area that have handicap parking passes would be eligible under ADA then we have a problem because what you see here is comical at times.

I would also not assume that a typical golfer in a cart (disabled or not) would be as careful and knowledgeable in minimizing damage as a golf course maintenance worker riding the triplex which has been argued here.

I would also argue Rj's point what is  "logical" to you is not "logical" to the average golfer especially those in a cart.   They enter and exit bunkers from the closest spot and park carts in the closest spot.  That is their "logic".  Do you really think Supers put up all that rope because it looks good?

And getting back to a law and government.... I really hate after a law is passes that we must use "common sense" in implementing it as I would argue if we had the ability to use "common sense" we would not have needed the law in the first place. 

[Jeff_Brauer]

The basics of ADA have been in place for 15 years, so I don't know if there are any new wrinkles in design.  I have heard of this (which was discussed years ago eve if the law takes effect now) and figured it is what it is.  Reasonable doesn't give any golfer the ability to tear up the green, and we have to presume that no golfer wheelchair or not would want to do it, even if we know there is always that 1%.

When the whole concept came up, I went to play in a disabled tournament to get a sense of things surrounding this issue.  Came away more inspired than pissed off at the notion that we must accomodate the disabled.

[Ronald Montesano]

Is there a mobile that will ride a green and not cause damage?

If an ADA-eligible golfer uses such a mobile but still causes damage, does the golf course have the right to refuse access to the perpetrator (not on the basis of disability, but on the basis of etiquette)?

[Jeff_Brauer]

Ronald,

My understanding is that they can refuse a character that does unnecessary damage, and have the right to restrict access in inclement weather, i.e., if they don't mow the greens (or wouldn't) due to wetness, then they don't have to allow other vehicles out there.

The problem as has been pointed out, is that the law is vague, and deliberately intentioned to be fleshed out to further conclusion via complaints, further rulings, and lawsuits.  That is always scary to golf course operators, and the counsel most get is to be as accomodating as possible to all ADA golfers (even borderline cases) in an effort to establish a relationship with them.  I suspect one of those test lawsuits will come against a signature architect or famous owner (Trump maybe) or well known resort or club for the ADA activist to get the most publicity out of it to state their case.

As an aside, I have been designing greens, tees and fw for 15 years to ADA rules as they were/are in place.  However, it surprises me how many architects, contractors, owners, etc. are totally unaware of the rules, or need to conform to them.  For the most part, making the green easily accessible isn't much different than what I would do to make it easily walkable from the cart path to a senior golfer, of which I am becoming rapidly.......and can feel their pain!

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