What would you do with this land?

[Chris Buie]

I was looking for something else on Google Images (large) and stumbled across this remarkable sequence of photographs. I won't bother boring you with what I thought - but I'm pretty sure some of you might like to let your imaginations run around this terrain for a bit.
The photos are done by a chap named Rick Holliday.
http://rickholliday.wordpress.com/2012/10/02/late-afternoon-light-on-the-palouse/

Oh, and by the way if you click on the images they enlarge. (Thanks to Joe Bausch)







This terrain below seems to be a kind of severe for golfing. I should imagine if you did incorporate it into a course you'd have to be extremely clever how you went about it. But that's the fun of it - puzzling that out.


The foreground in this looks ideal. Beyond the factory it would be more of a challenge.


Happy musings...

[Joe Stansell]

You drive around endlessly for hours looking for the perfect spot, only to learn from the experts that the terrain may be too hilly:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,51053.0.html

Or you open Circling Raven:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,31584.0.html

Both those threads gratis Kalen Braley, our resident Spokanite.

[Rich Goodale]

I'd hire the Ladies Golf Club of St. Andrews as architectural advisors and build the mother of all Himalayas putting greens.

[Chris Buie]

Yes, you are right Joe, it may indeed be too hilly - a lot of it anyway. Still...I do think it might be possible to find an unusually interesting golfing scenario somewhere in there and I'm not talking about something radical. It would be fun to try to find areas like the foreground to the factory along with some of the more moderately dramatic areas - like the closer up photo.
Then again, maybe there just aren't enough contiguous areas to put together a proper course. Maybe it's not suitable. It would be fun to try - and I do thing something particularly good could come out of it. Maybe not an 18 holer. I wouldn't dismiss that possibility.

[Joe Stansell]

I'm not saying that you can't find a course out there somewhere. Witness Palouse Ridge, Circling Raven, and the University of Idaho, all of which are located in the same "rolling Palouse country." But what others said in the thread that I linked above is that the "reality" of the terrain likely does not match the "allure" of the terrain.

But hey, if you can find a course, I'll be there opening day.

[Gib_Papazian]

The first thing is to do is determine what is under those rippling contours. Sand? Clay?

You cannot really answer the question without that vital piece of information.  

[Chris Buie]

Yes, Gib you are most definitely correct. My illusions of this area still are not gone just yet although I'll be surprised if they will last too much longer on this thread. I've not really been much of an armchair architect. I don't ever even recall drawing hole out on paper. However, there are occasions when I'm struck by the contouring of a particular piece of land. It doesn't happen that often actually. But that's what happened when I stumbled on these photos. The idea being I wonder how it could work - if it could work - it appears that it could be unusually compelling - maybe, maybe not.
I'm just musing here - obviously. Not something I've thought through. But I enjoy toying around with ideas that aren't fully formed with people that are experienced with such things.

Regarding clay - certainly not the ideal golfing ground - and I am not a fan of playing on it. And yet there are some very good courses built on it, are there not? I would imagine you'd have to work with that sort of land largely paying attention to drainage. There don't appear to be a lot of absolutely flat areas so I would think that would help. Even still, working with that would be complex and possibly make it an area that would in fact not be good for golfing.
Also, if the land was rocky that could be even worse to deal with than clay I would think.

Well,  I do enjoy very much hearing about the aspects I don't have a grasp on. It's an unusually knowledgeable and bright crowd here on GCA. What better place to learn - other than actually being out there in the field?

[Matthew Essig]

The first thing is to do is determine what is under those rippling contours. Sand? Clay?

You cannot really answer the question without that vital piece of information.  

Every hill you see in the pictures are made completely of silt.

TIME FOR A HISTORY LESSON!!!!!!!

We are still currently in an "Ice Age." This is because of the North and South poles are still frozen. 10,000 years ago, Canada and the northern U.S. was frozen, but was melting. There was an "ice dam" in Idaho/Montana holding back the melting ice. Eventually, the dam broke, releasing the water. The water churned up the soil in Eastern Washington, turned down the Columbia River Valley, and finally made its way out to sea and up the the Willamette Valley in Oregon. Just like all the farm land in the Willamette Valley, the land of the Palouse is very fertile.



So, the real question is, Can a golf course be built on extremely steep silt dunes?

[Phil McDade]

Chris:

My response to the argument that all the good land for golf is gone or has been used up:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,50710.0.html

[Jim_Kennedy]

I'd keep an eye out for the giant Palouse earthworms. 

[Bill_McBride]

I worked as a surveyor on a natural gas pipeline in that country in the early '60's.  I saw a lot of dirt excavated for the burying of the 36" pipe, and only saw sand in the bottom of the Snake River.  However, the soil is, as noted, extremely fertile, mostly loam.  I suspect golf courses will do very well in the region.  Wine Valley must be in that soil. 

[Steve_Lovett]

God's Country.

Washington State University (my Alma-mater) is squarely in the heart of the Palouse. The land is very rich, it's one of the most productive dry-land agricultural regions in the world - producing mostly wheat, as well as barley, peas, etc. These photos do a great job of capturing the drama of the landforms. It's magnificent, indeed.

Palouse Ridge (WSU's new home golf course) is routed through these landforms. It was designed by John Harbottle and replaced an old 9-hole course that Robert Muir Graves did some work on back in the 70's or 80's. The University of Idaho golf course is in this area as well.

[Bill_McBride]

God's Country.

Washington State University (my Alma-mater) is squarely in the heart of the Palouse. The land is very rich, it's one of the most productive dry-land agricultural regions in the world - producing mostly wheat, as well as barley, peas, etc. These photos do a great job of capturing the drama of the landforms. It's magnificent, indeed.

Palouse Ridge (WSU's new home golf course) is routed through these landforms. It was designed by John Harbottle and replaced an old 9-hole course that Robert Muir Graves did some work on back in the 70's or 80's. The University of Idaho golf course is in this area as well.

Steve, this will make you laugh.  We spent the first half of the summer of 1961 in Endicott.  The closest movie theater was in Pullman!   The second half we lived in Waitsburg.  The closest golf course was a 9 holer in Walla Walla that wasn't a golf course.  

[Jim_Kennedy]

The first thing is to do is determine what is under those rippling contours. Sand? Clay?

You cannot really answer the question without that vital piece of information.  

From Craig Haltom of Oliphant Golf, builders of Palouse Ridge

I wasn't onsite but I'm told there was 8" of topsoil and clay underneath 'like a potato field.' We moved less than 300,000 yds, which isn't a huge number for that site- credit to the late John Harbottle for making it work.
Hope this helpful- If any other questions I can track down the project superintendent

I wrote back, thanked him for his reply, and asked how well the existing soil drained and if they needed to add anything to help it along. If/when I get a reply I'll post it.  

http://www.oliphantgolf.com

[cary lichtenstein]

I'd like to hear what Doak says

[Jim_Kennedy]

I'd like to hear what Doak says

He already has.